Donald Livingstone

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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:58 pm

Hi John,

Bill is the first Livingston with roots to Kinlochspelvie Parish dating back to at least the late 1700's. In the earlier contact with Bill I was informed that his earliest ancestors were Duncan Livingston and Catharine Mcdougall. Duncan Livingston appears to have born likely in Torosay, Mull in the 1760's. His parents I have just discovered may have Duncan (Maclea) Livingston Sr. born probably in the 1730's and Sarah McPhadden, but not 100 percent certain of that. What I do know for certain from his 1856 death record at Drimnatain that Duncan Livingston and Catharine McDougall's neighbour at Drimnatain in the early 1800's Angus Livington 1762-1856 according to his death record was the son of Duncan Livingston and Catharine Mcdougal.

As Bill's ancestor's neighbour Angus Livington 1762-1856 is recorded in the 1851 census as being born in Torosay Parish while his son and family are born in Kinlochspelvie Parish in that same census, it would seem that this Livingston family who lived at Drimnatain and near Croggan and Dalhana in the late 1700's and 1800's, likely lived elsewhere in old Torosay Parish earlier in the 1700's. Old Torosay and Kinlochspelvie Parish seem to have connected in later years, but I assume the family in the 1851 are stating that old Angus was born in a different part of Mull than Drimnatain where the others in the family were later born. This info is a helpful clue for Bills family research as it can be stated I think that in the earlier period of the 1700's it appears that his Livingstons lived elsewhere somewhere in old Torosay Parish but still in Mull.

Bill was in touch with the forum earlier as you know and this second phase of the family research has proven to give us some insight into this Kinlochspelvie Parish Livingston family group. A nice addition to our knowledge of some of the Livingstons that resided in Kilfinichen Parish and Kilninian Parish in Mull that we have worked with through the forum or the DNA project. Virtually all of the Livingstons I have worked with on the Forum or our DNA Project with Mull roots the exception of your Kilfinchen Parish Livingstons had ancestors from Kilninian Parish, so with Bill's Livingston family info I think it marks the first time that the forum has been visited with someone with Livingston some roots in Kinlochspelvie and Torosay Parish.

I enjoyed learning about the Killean Cemetery and that some Livingstons with a Drimnatain connection were buried there. Like in the case of Keil Cemetery in Movern, where many of my Livingston kin are apparently buried, most of the older Maclea/Livingston gravestones from the 1800's and well before are missing or they were buried with out a proper gravestone. Some of the more recent Livingston stones fortunately in Killean Cemetery do survive and some of them I recognize as being connected to the Livingstons that resided in nearby Drimnatain or Croggan.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby tinamaclean » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:16 am

I trace back to duncan Livingstone and Catherine Mcdougal in Croggan. I was excited to find others researching the same line. 5 times great grandfather and grandmother. I am also a member of Mull genealogy.
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:01 am

HI Tina,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum. We have had quite a few Mull related Livingston discussions and inquiries here in the past. Bill was the first Livingston of the Drimnatyne/Croggan area Kinlochspelvie Parish, Livingstons of Mull who had contacted our Forum, so his inquiries and family information were greatly appreciated.
How are you related to Duncan Livingston and Catharine McDougall? I have attempted to contact Bill letting him know there is another Croggan Livington researcher visiting our Forum. The Forum or myself have been contacted over the years by a number of Livingstons of
Mull and Ross of Mull ancestry. Many of our Mull and neighbouring Morvern Livingston descendants or their kin who have been in contact are a part of our familytreedna genealogical Y chromosome DNA project and these tests have confirmed that almost all Mull Livingstons were ancestrally related to their neighbouring in Morvern Parish where my Livingston family originated. This Forum however gets genealogical inquiries and family history from Livingstons from a variety of origins as you can see from the many past postings going back to 2004.

I am also a fan of Mull Genealogy and great family research work that has been shared there over the years. My personal favourite is the Mull settlement locator that I use from time to time also very helpful when trying to find the old settlements of Mull where Livingstons lived in the 1700's and 1800's at Mull. It was a brilliant idea I have to say and very helpful also as even some of the detailed old ordnance survey maps don't always include some of the small more obscure Mull settlements necessarily. Great to have access to a searchable Mull settlement index with the old spellings of the settlements and a map with their locations. Kudos to whichever Mull researcher who came up with that idea. I used that locator index and an recreated 18th and 19th century Mull settlement map quite a bit over the years.

I had to refresh my memory on the basic info located regarding Bill's Mull Livingston family:

1. Duncan Livingston and Catharine McDougall of Drimnatyne, Torosay and Kilochspelvie Parish, Mull

2.Neil Livingston baptized Dec. 5, 1795 Kinlochspelvie Parish d. 1889 Crinan Knapdale Parish, Argyll m. Feb. 2, 1821 Drimnatyne, Torosay Mary Mclean b. 1798 d. Croggan, Kinlochspelvie Parish, Dec. 9, 1879

3. Donald Livingston baptized January 1, 1828 Drimnatyne, Torosay died Sask. Canada 1921
With Euphemia McAlpine (1)
married July 14, 1857 Lochbuy, Kinlochspelvie Parish, Argyll
1. Betsy Livingston b.March 29, 1858 d. Nov 17, 1858
2. Neil Livingston b. Oct. 17, 1861 Drimnatyne
3.John Livingston b. May 17, 1863 Drimnatyne
4.Alexander Livingston b. March 30, 1865 Croggan Village
(Euphemia McAlpine died August 28,, 1866 Croggan Village)

With Euphemia McDougall (2)
married April 20, 1868 Greenock, Renfrewshire
1.Duncan Livingston b. April 11, 1869 Croggan Village
2. Jane Livingston b.April 12,1875 Croggan Village

4. Alexander Livingston b. 1865 Croggan Village, Kinlochspelvie parish, Mull married ?[/b]

Donald Livingston and his wife Euphemia and family including their son Alexander (Bill's ancestor) settled in Canada in the late 1870's and early 1880's.

Then in the 1891 Census in Canada for the N.W.Territories Assinaboia East Broadview (Later Province of Saskatchewan)
Donald Livingston age 70
Euphemie Livingston age 60
John Livingston age 26
Alexander Livingston age 24
Jane Livingston age 16

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby jmlivingstone » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:55 pm

I just came across the info below, on Mull Families, reference the marriage of David Stewart Livingstone & Mary Livingstone, both resident Torosay. I'm not too sure if the introduction of a second Livingstone family will help or hinder the research.

Mull Families site has a large amount of info on various branches of your family, all well worth a look at.
It is now a subscription free site, all that is required is to register. I have used the site for a few years now, & can highly recommend it,

John


1. David Stewart Livingstone

b. abt. 1841, Kinlochspelvie,

d. 21 Jan 1929 Craignure, (now main ferry terminal from Oban).

F. Duncan Livingstone

b. abt. 1785 Torosay.

d. 1863 Kinlochspelvie.

M. Mary McDougall

chr. 1798 Torosay.

d. 21 Dec 1874 Croggan.

Duncan & Mary married 05 Feb 1822


2. Mary Livingstone

F. Neil Livingstone

b. 05 Dec 1795 Torosay

d. 1889 North Knapdale.

M. Mary McLean

b. abt 1797 Torosay

d. 09 Dec 1879 Croggan

3. David Stewart Livingstone – m – Mary Livingstone 18 May 1869.
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed May 02, 2018 2:51 am

Hi Tina,

Here is what I had found regarding the family of Duncan Livingston and Catharine McDougall. Which child of Duncan and Catharine are you descended from?

Livingston Family no. 1 of Drimnatain circa early 1800's
Duncan Livingston b. 1760's? and Catharine Mcdougal of Drimnatyne,Killochspelvie Parish, Mull
1. Angus Livingston b. March 13, 1794 Drimnatyne
2. Niel Livingston born December 5, 1795 born at Drimnatyne,kinlochspelvie Parish, Mull
3. Mary Livingston b. March 17, 1798 Drimnatyne
also entries for a Duncan Livingston and Nelly Mcdougal could be the same family a Duncan Livingston and Catharine Mcdougal
John Livingston b. 18/01/1804 Drimnatyne
Alexander Livingston b. 13/05/1804 Drimnatyne

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby wdlivingstone » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:58 pm

Does anyone know if it's possible to locate families in Ulva specifically from the early 1700s to about 1765? It's my understanding that records on Ulva are included in Kilinian and Kilmore records. Databases I've been able to search do not show Ulva as a location where someone was baptized, only the parish.

At one time, there were an estimated 800 families living on Ulva. It would appear families often moved between Ulma and Mull. Does anyone know of a source that discusses these issues?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Bill
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:25 am

Hi Bill,

No collection of Church of Scotland birth or baptisms or marriage records before 1766 to the best of my knowledge survive for Kilninian Parish which included the Isle of Ulva. From 1766 onwards the records that survive for Kilninian Parish often the mention name of the settlement of those named in the entry but unless you were familiar with all the gaelic names and the sometimes weird spelling variations of Ulva settlements, you might find it difficult to determine which settlement was located on Ulva and which was situated elsewhere in Kilninian Parish. I think I only know the names of 2 or 3 settlements on the Isle on Ulva. I don't know whether or not there were Livingston residing on the Isle of Ulva before the late 1770's, but it would be interesting to know. Little known fact is that the Grandparents of Dr. Livingstone Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison were actually married at Lettermore, Mull in 1874 and did not move to the Island of Ulva until the late 1770's. So there are no Kilninian Parish records pertaining to Dr. Livingstone's Grandparents and their children until 1779 located on the Isle of Ulva. Prior to the 1779 the older children of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison were born at Lettermore, Mull. I have not found any information on other Livingstons residing on the Isle of Ulva at the time Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison were there. There were thought to be some Livingston families however elsewhere in Kilninian parish who might have been related to Neil Livingstone the grandfather of Dr. Livingstone, but who they were was never really documented and is largely speculation without proof. Dr. LIvingstone will forever be remembered for being a famous missionary and explorer, but regrettably did not provide his readers with much information regarding his Livingston family origins.

As far as I know there were no records of Livingstons and before Maclea families which later became Livingstones in earlier 18th century Ulva, but I can't say for certain there weren't any.

As I mentioned there is a genealogy Y chromosome familytree DNA test which our Clan is involved with from which it can be very easily determined whether your Mull Livingston family was related to Dr. Livingstone's grandfather Neil Livingstone or not in a few weeks after testing. What is better than genetic proof? That is one of the reasons we are seeking out Livingstons of Mull ancestry for the familytreedna test to find long lost kin of Dr. Livingtone's grandfather who lived in the Mull area. Dr. Livingstone's grandfather's family group was apparently a very small family group in the 1700's in Mull. DNA testing since about 2003 has suggested that most of the Livingstons who resided in Mull and neighbouring Morvern were not related to Dr. Livingstone's grandfather, but of another Livingston family.

regards,


Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2515
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby wdlivingstone » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:53 am

Donald,

Thanks for your email. I can trace an ancestor back to the 1760s, but nothing earlier, despite parishes keeping records of baptisms and births. Knowing that David Livingstone's family has links to Ulva, I am curious to know if other Livingstone families might have lived in Ulva. Thus, my interest in finding possible sources that list more specific information than a parish.

Regarding the DNA test, what is involved in the process?

Best regards,

Bill
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:15 pm

Hi Bill,

Good time actually to ask about our Livingstone familytreedna Y Chromosome Project. Familytreedna is having a special Father's day Week of discounts on the regular price of their Y Chromosome DNA test. The 37 marker test is regularly 169.00 US dollars and now till July 18th 40 dollars off and going for 129.00. You could start with the 37 marker and later upgrade to the 67 or 111 markers or do the 67 and 111 marker tests which a bit more expensive. If you looking for a reasonably priced Y chromosome starter test then the Y Chromosome 37 marker test is starting point which will identify whether your are related to Dr. Livingtone's related Livingston's kin DNA group or the more common Maclea Livingston Mull and Morvern group or perhaps a third DNA group representing mostly those of nearby Lismore and neighbouring Appin, Argyll origin. Virtually all those Livingstons with Mull origins tested except the great-nephew of Dr. Livingstone are a match with the predominate Mull/Morvern Y Chromosome groups so the odds are you are ancestrally connected to the group my Livingston cousin of Morvern Livingson ancestry and most of the neighbouring Mull Livngstons have been so far but there is as I say always the possibility that you could be a match with the David Livingstone group or a third group of Livingstons of nearby Lismore and Appin Argyll ancestry. Right now with 40 dollars off at 129.00 U.S dollars the 37 marker Y Chromosome test of your father Livingstone's line is the best deal during their sale and an excellent means to determine which Livingstons of Western Argyllshire ancestry you are related to.

You can order online if you like and here is the familytreedna online page where you can order if you like the Y chromosome 37 marker test till June 18th at the discounted rate of 129.00. That is quite a bit cheaper than the 67 or 111 marker tests and if your happy with the 37 marker test results and want further testing later you can always simply just upgrade to 67 or 111 marker test later as some in our Y Chromosome test group have. As regular price after July 18th is back to 169.00 US dollars the 129.00 limited time offer is a great deal in my opinion. Our Mull Livingstons in the our Y Chromosome DNA project would be very excited at the prospect of another Mull Livingston in their group I can tell you that and one of them in particular who currently resides in lowland Scotland quite the expert on Mull Livingstons being of Mull Livingston ancestry himself. My Livingston ancestors came from neighbouring parish of Morvern and many of the Mull and Morvern Livingstons were related actually we have found from the Y Chromosome testing our Livingstons have been doing over the last 10 years or more.

Here is the online order link with the 37 marker Y chromosome test for 129.00 sale price till June 18 2018 which is 40 dollars off their regular price. If you have any questions or concerns about the Y 37 marker test just let me know as I know the other Mull Livingstons in the our DNA project would be most glad to have another Mull Livingston in their group if this can work for you. If you could let me know before the 18th of June that would be great.

If you go to down to middle of the page below where it says in orange "Father's Line" it offers the 37 or 67 or 111 Y Chromosome tests at their special discounted rates till June 18, 2018.

https://www.familytreedna.com/products

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2515
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Greg Livingston » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:56 am

Bill,

I have been out of pocket for the past week but agree with Donald on the DNA. I ran mine last November at 64 markers and was impressed with the results enough to upgrade to 111 which just went on to prove my relationship with Dr. David. I do encourage you to take the simple test which is a cheek swab. Who knows, maybe you are the long lost cousin I didn't know I had.
Greg Livingston
Clan Commissioner
Northglenn, Colorado, USA
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Location: Northglenn, CO, USA

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