Donald Livingstone

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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:14 pm

Hi Bill,

Found that there is a photo of the flat ground marker stone that is only stone apparently marking the resting place of your ancestors Donald Livingston and Euphemia McDougall at Birchwood Cemetery, Swan River, Manitoba. All that there seems to be on the small stone is Donald Livingstone aged 103 yrs and Euphemia McDougall age 84 yrs. I don't see a year for their deaths, but Donald's last census is 1916 and he is not included in the 1921 Census, so a death date of 1921 makes sense. And Euphemia is not listed with Donald in the 1916 Census so she must likely died in 1914 as you stated. What is interesting to note is that widower Donald Livingston was living with his son John b. 1863 at the time of the 1916 Census in Mackenzie District in the Yorkton Saskatchewan area. I am wondering then if the scenario is that he died in Yorkton Saskatchewan area and then was buried with his wife Euphemia in Beechwood Cemetery, Swan River, Manitoba where she had been buried several years before. Her son Duncan Livington b. 1869 lived at Swan River, Manitoba and Duncan and his wife Bertha are also buried there. Swan River, Manitoba is close to the Saskatchewan border, so a couple of hours drive in 1921 from the Yorkton Saskatchewan area if Donald died in Saskatchewan before being buried in Manitoba with his second wife Euphemia McDougall.

The last census the 1916 Census that your ancestor Donald Livingston is in states his age is 90 which would suggest a birth date of about 1826 much more in line with his actual birth date of 1828. This of course I realize does not explain his gravestone marking his death a few years later states at the time of his death in 1921 he was 103 years old. Based on his birth info back in Scotland with a date in the year 1828 I would have thought he was actually closer to 93 at the time of his death. Interestingly the 1891 and 1901 suggest he was born abt. 1818 or 1819. One other census from that period however suggests a birthdate of 1821. I think he died in Yorkton Saskatchewan and we know he was buried in neighbouring Manitoba. As mentioned e-health saskatchewan have it set up so you can easily order a copy of Donald's 1921 death record online from their website as no doubt you are curious to learn what information was included in his death record. You can't order a copy from the Saskatchewan Archives. Given that old Donald was living with his son John (Jack) Livingston and his wife Margaret McLeod according to the 1916 census in the year 1916 just a few years before his death at John's home in the Yorkton Saskatchewan area then there is good chance I should think that as you stated Yorkton area is where he died in 1921. I think the reason that your ancestor Donald Livingston was buried in Swan River, Manitoba is because his second wife Euphemia McDougall was buried in Swan River, Manitoba where her only son with Donald was buried. Remember that DUncan b. 1869 and a daughter Jane (Janet) born in 1875 were children of DOnald and his second wife Euphemia McDougall and Neil b. 1861, John b. 1863 and Alex. born 1865 were sons of Donald and his first wife Euphemia McAlpine who lived originally in Canada anyways in Saskatchewan.

Here is the findagravesite with a photo of Donald and Euphemia's flat ground marker stone

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... 105796255&

It is a little hard to read but you can enlarge the photo of the stone by clicking it.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby wdlivingstone » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:32 pm

Donald,

Thanks again for all your effort to find information about family members of Donald Livingstone. I have yet to order the death certificate, but will notify you when I receive any information.

Best regards,

Bill
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:10 pm

HI Bill,

No problem. I am currently researching in detail Mull Livingstons anyways for my own research project. My Mull Livingston research is all part of a grander scheme to collect genealogy info Livingstons of Mull, neighbouring Morvern and other adjacent parishes eventually and if possible determine through the ongoing Clan Maclea Livingstone Society DNA project with Familytreedna if Livingstons that lived throughout Mull and neighbouring Morvern in particular in early 19th century Mull were related closely or more distantly to one another. So far the results are suggesting just that.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:41 pm

Hi Bill,

Not sure if this photo of Donald Livingston and Euphemia McDougall's gravestone could be accessed in my earlier post.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... 105796255&

I am trying again.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby wdlivingstone » Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:56 pm

Donald,

It worked he fist time. Thanks.

Do you know if the cemetery has kept any records on burials? There would have been paperwork on the purchase of the plots, when people were buried, etc.

Best regards,

Bill
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:41 pm

Hi Bill,

I don't really know. If it id an old cemetery often there are no surviving ledger books recording date of plot purchase and other info regarding the family plot and individual family graves. I have found no contact info for Birchwood Cemetery in Swan River, Manitoba but you could try an contact the transcriber of these Livingston tombstone info. They might have more info on the cemetery and what info still exists. These I assume are all the Livingstons buried in this cemetery. Old Donald and Euphemia his second wife, their son Duncan b.1869 in Scotland and his wife Bertha and another Livingston couple perhaps a son or grandson of Duncan. The son Duncan and his wife Bertha and their family as mentioned resided in Swan River, Manitoba in the early 20th century. The older half brothers of Duncans all children from Donald's first marriage to the other Euphemia (Euphemia McAlpine who died back in 1866 in Croggan Village, Kinlochspelvie, Mull, Neil b.1861, John (Jack) b. 1863 and Alexander (Sandy) b.1865 in Drimnatyne near Croggan Village lived in Saskatchewan. Neil and John I believed died in the Yorkton Saskatchewan. Not sure about where Alexander died but you would have all that info. I have death info on Alex's other older brothers Neil and John and the above info of the half-brother Duncan from his gravestone.

This is all the info that was apparently found regarding your Livingstones in that Birchwood Cemetery in Swan River, Manitoba
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... Livingston

I have helped a great many Livingstons with their family research in the last 10 years here at the forum and I would have to say you are one of more fortunate ones in that there is so detailed Livingston family info both in the 19th century Scottish records and in the later Canadian records which I think provides you when pieced together gives you a pretty good insight into your Livingston family - their early years in Canada and back in Scotland. One gentleman that I have been helping with his Livingston family history, who is touring Scotland at the moment, has no idea which parish in Western Argyll his ancestors are from as all he has is some land records in Canada and one Canadian census indicating his ancestor was born in the early 1800's in Scotland. I found out later that he settled in Canada with an older brother but again all the older brother had was a Canadian census indicating he also was born in the early 1800' in Scotland. In his case he decided to see if our DNA test could help him and it did clearly identify the probability that his ancestors came from Mull or one of the neighbouring parish in Western Argyllshire like other Livingstons in the province where his ancestor and his brother settled. Regrettably though I found lots of Canadian land records I could find no shred of documented evidence telling us where precisely in Scotland this gentleman's Scottish Livingston ancestor came from though I suspected highland Western Argyllshire.

I however suspected he his ancestor was from Mull or some parish nearby in Western Argyllshire and so his DNA test results with familytreedna suggested just that and was a relatively close match with several other Western Argyllshire Livingston descendants who had previously been tested. So at least he had idea of where his Livingston ancestors came from even there no paper trail back in Scotland providing us with info regarding where specifically his Livingstons resided in Scotland. All of the other Livingstons nearby were from Western Argyllshire so made me think that the odds were pretty good that his test results would indicate that his Livingstons were from some parish in Western Argyllshire. So the point you are very lucky to have so much surviving info linking your Livingston ancestors not only to Mull but to Kinlochspelvie Parish and to Drimnatyne originally and later neighbouring Croggan Village.

I only have my Livingston ancestors' 1812 scottish marriage record and the subsequent 1812 passenger list of a ship that was taking him, his son from his first marriage, his second wife and a Livingston cousin to British North America in the Summer of 1812 and some subsequent info but nothing before his 1812 marriage record. Sometimes you find a lot, sometime just a little and sometimes nothing at all. It is just luck I guess.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby wdlivingstone » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:37 pm

Donald,

I finally gained access to the death certificate of Donald Livingstone, who died in Yorkton on May 5, 1921. As you suspected, his parents are Neil Livingstone and Mary McLean.

Best regards,

Bill
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Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:02 am

Hi Bill,
Welcome back to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum
Wishing you the best of the Holiday season.
Glad to hear that the suggestion of acquiring that death record I mentioned verified as we suspected that Neil Livingston and Mary Mclean were Donald Livingston's parents. Even better when you can locate an official government record like that giving you the proof you were looking for.

Recapping your Torosay Mull Livingston ancestral line
1. Duncan Livingston and Catharine McDougall of Drimnatyne, Torosay and Kilochspelvie Parish, Mull

2.Neil Livingston baptized Dec. 5, 1795 d. 1889 Crinan Knapdale Parish, Argyll m. Feb. 2, 1821 Drimnatyne, Torosay Mary Mclean b. 1798 d. Croggan, Kinlochspelvie Parish, Dec. 9, 1879

3. Donald Livingston baptized January 1, 1828 Drimnatyne, Torosay died Sask. Canada 1921
With Euphemia McAlpine (1)
married July 14, 1857 Lochbuy, Kinlochspelvie Parish, Argyll
1. Betsy Livingston b.March 29, 1858 d. Nov 17, 1858
2. Neil Livingston b. Oct. 17, 1861 Drimnatyne
3.John Livingston b. May 17, 1863 Drimnatyne
4.Alexander Livingston b. March 30, 1865 Croggan Village
(Euphemia McAlpine died August 28,, 1866 Croggan Village)

With Euphemia McDougall (2)
married April 20, 1868 Greenock, Renfrewshire
1.Duncan Livingston b. April 11, 1869 Croggan Village
2. Jane Livingston b.April 12,1875 Croggan Village

4. Alexander Livingston b. 1865 Croggan Village, Kinlochspelvie parish, Mull married ?[/b]

Bill See this Map of Mull showing close proximity of Drimnatyne (Drimnatain) and Croggan in the Torosay area of Mull
http://www.mullgenealogy.co.uk/location.asp?sq=J2

I am confident as mentioned before that Donald was actually born in 1828, despite one piece of information in Canada suggesting he was born about 10 years earlier. Both the 1841 and 1851 Census info from Kilochspelvie, Torosay, Mull indicate he was born abt. 1829 or 1828 as well.

You likely have more than a few Livingston cousins residing in Scotland. Interestingly in 1841 and 1851 Neil Livingston and his family were the only Livingston family residing at Drimnatain. Donald's father Neil lived lived to be a widower and very old man and in his final years moved to nearby Croggan Village in Kilochspelvie Parish. Born in 1795 he died years later in 1889.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2518
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby wdlivingstone » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:40 am

Donald,
Thank you again for all your efforts to help unravel my family's genealogy. And best wishes for 2018.

A couple follow-up questions.

Is information available on the Drimnatyne-Croggan Village area in the 1800's? Population size? Were residents mostly tenement farmers? etc.

Donald Livingstone moved his family to Canada because it land was available for free. Is there any record of the number of Mull residents who immigrated to Canada?

Best regards,

Bill
wdlivingstone
 
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Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:48 am

Re: Donald Livingstone

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:53 pm

Hi Bill,

Thanks for that. I enjoyed discovering the interesting details of your Torosay, Mull ancestral line. As it turned out and as luck would have your ancestors lived well into their old age and therefore there were lots of records to be found both in Scotland and also we had luck with the Canadian records. My Livingston ancestor was born in Morvern parish which is next to Mull and the familytreedna testing has so far indicated that most of the Morvern and Mull Livingstons likely shared a common ancestor.

My Livingston ancestor Miles Livingston was born abt. 1775 in Morvern Parish and later apparently found work on Isle of Islay where some Livingstons relatives had settled. In 1812 Miles and one of his younger cousins Donald Livingston 1791-1876 were recruited by a highland agent of Scottish Lord Selkirk to work as a boatbuilder and to help colonize Selkirk's Red River Colony part of which was situated in present day Winnipeg, Manitoba. My Livingston ancestor's log cabin was built along the Red River in what is now downtown Winnipeg later burned down in 1815 when the North West Company destroyed Selkirk's settlement. A few days before he left Islay, Argyll in June of 1812 for British North American Miles married Janet Livingston also of Morvern, his second wife perhaps a distant relative. He was also accompanied to Red River with his son Donald 1796-1862 from his first marriage. Later Miles and his family from his second marriage from which I ams descended settled in 1815 in Upper Canada. His son Donald from his first marriage left Lord Selkirks settlement a year or so after his father and he ended settling Quebec where he became a land Surveyor. His cousin Donald Livingston remained a loyal supporter of Lord Selkirk and returned to Red River once it was safe to do so and remained there for till around 1840 when he settled in Iowa with some brothers who had originally encourage with his father and mother to settle with him at Red River which they did in 1819.

The census info for your ancestor, Donald's father Neil Livingston or levingston of Drimnatain, Mull indicates that he was, before he retired, an agricultural labourer and for sure an tenant. Not sure who is landlord was.

I don't have the stats on how many Mull tenants settled in Canada at any given time period, but suffice to say in the early 1800's a ton of them settled in Cape Breton and other parts of Nova Scotia. Several descendants of Mull and neighbouring Morvern Parish Livingstons whose Livingston ancestors settled in Atlantic Canada in the early 1800's have done the familytreedna project our clan society is involved with, so as a result we have a pretty good idea that almost all of the Mull Livingstons (and Morvern Livingstons) are relatively closely related with similar DNA marker results. Some of these Nova Scotia Livingstons I have some information on where they lived in Mull. I think I am going to start plotting their last known location in Mull on a map and add new Livingstons to the map of Mull as more Mull Livingstons participate in our DNA project. I would imagine quite a few Mull families settled in Nova Scotia, PEI and Upper Canada in the early 1800's no idea of the numbers but no doubt there would have been a lot of them.

I realize when I mentioned our Clan Maclea Livingstone genealogical DNA project you might not have been too interested, but it can prove to be helpful in determining whether or not you are related in some way to Dr. Livingstone's family group or to the other Livingstone group that is the more common Mull Livingston DNA group according to the test results so far. I am hoping we can do more Mull Livingston DNA tests to locate some lost Mull Livingston branches of Dr. Livingstone's family possibly connected to a brother or cousin of Dr. Livingstone's grandfather Neil Livingstone who lived in Lettermore, Mull in the 1770's and later nearby the Isle of Ulva.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone
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