Donald Livingstone

Public Forum for anyone interested in tracing their roots.
Forum rules
Remember that this forum is publicly accessible. Do not share private information that you wish to remain private on the Ancestral Search forum.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,

I found a definite match


In the 1901 Saskatchewan Census info Euphemie McDougall Livingstone states that she came to Canada from Scotland in 1881 and her husband Donald Livingston states he came in 1878

In 1901 Census a Duncan Livingston is censused indicating he is Duncan Livingston born April 11, 1869 in scotland and same birth date as the son of Euphemie McDougall's son and like Euphemie McDougall this Duncan Livingston in 1901 a resident of Marquette Swan River, Manitoba Canada states he also came to Canada from Scotland in 1881 as your ancestor's wife Euphemie McDougall Livingson stated from their home in Assinaboea East, Saskatchewan. IF you go back through my previous postings you will find the birth dat April 11, 1869 as the exact birthdate in Croggan Village of a son of your ancestor Duncan Livingston and yes his second wife Euphemie McDougall whom I think you agree came to Canada with your ancestor Donald Livingston.

I realize that 1818 and 1828 confusion is problematic but my approach was to assume there could be a mistake somewhere regarding that and see where that took me. So I now I have I can account for all the six children Donald fathered with Euphemie MacAlpine and Euphemie McDougall back in Kinlochspelvie and show you that most of them ended in Western Canada except for Betsie Livingston born 1858 who died in Kinlochspelvie Parish in 1858. John b. 1863, Alexander born 1865 (your great grandfather), and the youngest Jane born 1875 are you will see in the year 1891 residing with your ancestor Donald Livingston and his second wife Euphemie Mcdougall if you look over the 1891 Canadian Census record of Donald Livingston in Assinaboia East. One son Duncan is not found with the family in the 1891 census data but in the 1901 Census, 1911, 1916 and 1921 Census appears at Swan River, Manitoba and what is a most amazing find regarding this Duncan Livingston living in Manitoba origin in the 1901 Census he states that he was born on April 11, 1869 in Scotland and came from Scotland to Canada in 1881 as does Euphemia McDougall Livingston wife of your ancestor Donald Livingston in the 1901 Census when they are residing in Saskatchewan.Finally found eldest son Neil Livingston born 1861 in the 1901 Census also residing in Assinboia East in the Territories in the Ebenezer District. He was married to a Cecilia Brownlee and had several children. By the 1906 Census he is residing with his family at Yorktown, Saskatchewan where he died apparently in Yorktown Saskatchewan on December 20, 1911. Neil was the eldest son of Donald Livingston and his first wife Euphemia McAlpine which makes him a full blood brother of your ancestor Alexander Livingston. He lived at Yorktown Saskatchewan according to the 1906 census and have found info suggesting he died in Yorktown in 1911 but that is from someones research and not documented like this all this other info I have provided you. But it so far makes sense cause the 1906 census states that Alex's older brother Neil and his family are residing in Yorktown Saskatchewan at this time. The census info does not give an accurate age or birth dates for him but suggests he was born in 1862 or 1861 which is close enough. So these Canadian records can be linked to the family in Croggan Village, Kinlochspelvie despite the issue of 1818 or 1828 I think. All five surviving Children are by 1901 of Donald Livingston formerly of Croggan Village kinlochspelvie, Mull are living in Western Canada 4 in Saskatchewan and one in Manitoba and I have proof of their location in the Canadian Census records.

regards,

Donald
wdlivingstone
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:48 am

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by wdlivingstone »

Donald,

Thank you for all your effort. You've done a great job gather details on Donald's family. I agree with you on all accounts.
It seems likely that when Donald died in 1921, his death certificate would indicate his parent's names. This informatin would resolve the 1818 vs 1830 date for his birth. I've tried to locate this document without success. Do you have some ideas on how to locate the certificate?

Best regards,

Bill
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,

Not to worry. I was pretty before last night but when the last two family members of Donald as indicated in the Kinlochspelvie records Duncan born 1869 in the 1901 Census Manitoba as D. Livingston born Scotland April 11, 1869 which finally is a date the exactly matches the date of his birth Croggan, Kinlochspelvie and to my amazement late last night finally the last one I was looking for Neil Livingston the eldest born in 1861 to Donald and his first wife Euphemia McAlpine and then info from the 1906 census that he at that time was living with his wife and family in Yorktown Sask that is connected as you said with your ancestor Donald I knew I had the proof that I needed to convince you that the family from Croggan Village, Kinlochspelvie of Donald Livingston and his two wives McAlpine and McDougall that i located is the one that settled in Assinaboia East and apparently in neighbouring Manitoba.

As you can see even with census records both Scottish and Canadian it very challenging in many cases without birth records or baptism records to accurately establish a birth date or approximate birth date. IN almost every family i have researched the census records are a pain to work with because wrong ages are recorded at the time of the census. I really don't know why that happens but I find errors in census records even errors i have found on tombstones. My great-great grandfather was born in 1810 and his own sons or grandsons in Michigan had his birthdate on his tombstone as 1815. Not as bad as your 1818 date but as you can see from the census records without birth records using the census record to come up with approximate birth date is really challenge sometimes, As i said in the case your ancestor you actually have huge paper trail both back in your ancestral homeland of Scotland and in Canada. Many of the persons of Scottish Livington ancestry I am helping with their Livingston research have very little Scottish parish record info just later info from the U.S. or Canada linking them to Scotland. All of Donald's children and Donald himself have birth records. Donald not only has a birth record indicating his parents were Neil Livington and Mary Maclaine of Drimnatyne near Croggan but you Donald's two marriage records one from 1857 and one from 1868 to use to verify that his parents were infact Neil Livingston and Mary Maclaine of Mclean of Drimnatyne in Kinlochspelvie. The marriage records in Scotland were starting in 1855 officially registered by the Scottish government and included in most cases the names of parents of the bride and the groom which for the family researcher is indeed a wonderful thing. So with this kind of proof regarding Donald's parents we seem to be going this time with the correct family. Also as was apparently a common Scottish family practice I am told, Donald's eldest son Neil born in 1861 was named after his father Neil Livingston. I could not find a birth record for Donald's father Neil. Presumingly he was born in the late 1700's in Drimnatyne or Croggan. I did notice that there were a few old Livingston families that lived in Drimnatyrne/ Croggan area of Kinlochspelvie around Loch Shelve prior to 1800 that were almost certainly related to Neil and his son Donald no doubt.

IN one of my posts I included a link with scenery photos of Croggan beach so that you could get a sense of what the Croggan area looked like at the time that Alexander his father Donald and his father Neil lived there. I have little doubt that at some point in time your ancestors walked this same Croggan beach quite frequently. If you and your family ever go to Scotland you might consider visiting Croggan and nearby Drimnatyne. Don't know as yet exactly where Drimnatyne was but I do know it was around the Croggan area for certain and Donald was born at Drimnatnye but later lived in Croggan before coming to Canada in 1878.

So regarding the family of Donald Livingston, one daughter Betsy born in 1858 the eldest child died in 1858 as an infant. Neil Livingston born in 1861 came to Canada in 1880 and settled in Assinboia living in 1906 in Yorktown Sask. (and died in Yorkton Sask. in 1911 according to one family source not as yet verified), Donald came to Canada in 1878 his second wife Euphemia stayed behind in Argyllshire for reason and joined him with children John b. 1863, Alexander your ancestor b. 1865 and Euphemia's daughter Jane b. 1875 they youngest in 1881 according to EUphemia's 1901 Canadian census info. These children appear with Donald and Euphemia in 1891 Census but not in the 1901 Census and are no longer living with Donald and Euphemia by then. Duncan born in 1869 the son of Donald and his second wife Euphemia McDougall was not found as yet in the 1891 Canadian census but sure enough I found him in the 1901 Census residing in Manitoba with Duncan's birth date given as April 11, 1869 finally a child of Donald in Canada with a perfect matching birth date with that of his Croggan, Kinlochspelvie birth info back in Kinlochspelvie, Mull. So by late last night I realized that I had enough Canadian info to help support the notion that all of Donald's family settled either in Assinaboia Saskatchewan or in the case of son Duncan born in 1869 before 1901 in neighbouring Manitoba. Finding Donald's eldest son Neil in Yorkton Sask in the 1906 Canadian Census late last night was definitely an encouraging moment. One of your relatives can perhaps verify whether or not you have an Uncle Neil Livingstone (1861-1911) or something like those dates older brother of Alexander Livingston buried in a Yorkton Sask. cemetery.

Hope this helps.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

HI Bill,

Well some really interesting news. I was looking for another brother of Donald named Robert said to be in the 1830's in Kinlochsplevie Parish did not find his birth record but found by accident him with his parents Neil and Mary McLean and other siblings including your Donald residing in 1841 at Drimnatyne in Kinlochspelvie to my delight plus Neil and Mary in the 1851 and 1861 census also in Kinlochspelvie. In addition to giving us the names of the other brothers and sisters of your Donald I could not find in the parish birth records these census record give an approximate birth date for Donald's father Neil Livington of about 1796 in Kinlochspelvie Parish and his mother Mary Maclaine of about 1798 also in Kinlochspelvie Parish which is great

These are the census records of 1841, 1851 and 1861 in Kinlochspelvie Parish, Mull of Donald's parents Neil Livingston and Mary Maclaine
The census recorded ages are all over the place for the children but give you a rough idea of their approximate birth date if in the case of the later ones no birth records survives but it looks very clear that Neil the father was born abt. 1796 and Mary the mother about 1798 so let go with that.

1841 Census
Neil Levingston age 45 tenant Duinantain (Drimnatyne), Kinlochsplevie Parish
Mary Levingston age 40
Jane Levingston age 15
Duncan Levingston age 14
Donald Levington age 12 Your ancestor
Alexander Levingston age 9
Robert Levingston age 5
Mary Levingston age 2

1851 Census Drimnatyne, Kinlochspelvie/ Torosay Parish
Nill Livingston age 55 agricultural labourer (Neil Livingston) born Kinlochspelvie Parish
Mary Livingston age 53
Donald Livingston age 23 Your ancestor
Alexander Livingston age 18
Robert Livingston age 14
Mary Livingston age 11
Nill Livingston age 8 (Neil Livingston)

(Donald marries Euphemia McAlpine and moved out of his Drimnatyne parent's residence in 1857)

1861 Census Castleroy, Kinlochspelvie Parish, Mull
Neil Livingston age 65 born Kinlochspelvie Parish
Mary Livingston age 63
Alexander Livingston age 27
Mary Livingston age 21
Neil Livingston age 17

So Donald's father Neil and mother Mary were alive and still living in Kinlochspelvie Parish as late as 1861. I wonder when they died and where. I will take another look at that and see if I can find their death info which I get lucky will tell us the name of their parents and take back your Livington family yet another generation. Don't know why I did not see Neil's death record the first time I looked but will give it another try now that I know he was still alive in 1861 and must of died sometime after that. More later.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,

More great news.

I found Donald's father's death record. Neil Livingstone farmer and widower and husband of the Mary Mclean died in Feb. 5, 1889 at the age 97 yrs in Crinan, Knapdale Parish, Argyll. To my delight it listed his parents as Duncan Livingston and Catharine Mcdougal deceased.

So then I checked the old Torosay and Kinlochspelvie parish birth records for the children born to Duncan Livingston and Catharine McDougall that were recorded as this is what I found:

Children of Duncan Livingston and Catharine Mcdougal of Drimnatyne, Torosay and Killochspelvie
1. Angus Livingston born March 13, 1794
2. Niel Livingston born December 5, 1795 born at Drimnatyne, Torosay and kinlochspelvie Parish, Mull
3. Mary Livingston born March 17, 1798

The age in his death record is of course not correct as seems so often to be the case but Neil's birth entry of December 5, 1795 is very close to the 1841, 1851 and 1861 Census info in Kinlochspelvie Parish that indicates an approximate birth year as being about 1796. So we have a birth date which is great and even better the names now of Neil's parents Duncan Livingston and Catharine Mcdougal of Drimnatyne in then Torosay and Kinlochspelvie Parish. In 1842 Kinlochspelvie became a separate parish by the way.

So were are looking at your ancestral line now as far back as I can go in the Torosay and Kinlochspelvie Records

1. Duncan Livingston and Catharine Mcdougall of Drimnatyne, Torosay and Kinlochspelvie Parish, Mull
2. Neil Livingston b. 1795 Drumnatyne d. 1889 Crinan, Knapdale Parish, Argyll and married 1821 Mary Maclaine b. abt. 1798 d. Croggan, Kinlochspelvie Parish Dec.9 1879
3. Donald Livingston b. Drumnatyne 1828 died Sask, Can. 1921 married (1) Euphemie McAlpine, (2) Euphemie Mcdougall
4. Alexander Livingston b. 1865 Croggan Village, Kinlochspelvie parish, Mull married ?
jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by jmlivingstone »

Donald/Bill,

The information below can be found in the Mull Families site, they have info. on over 100 members of the family, all info. is verified before being posted.

The site contains 62,000 names plus other info. on families from the Mull area.

The site requires a small annual subscription, I think about 5GBP/$8, not sure exactly, but can find out if you’re interested.

The link below will take you to the site

I suspect a large part of the below info. has already been posted by Donald.

FYI, As Greenock is my home town, I checked out library records of marriages in 1868, unfortunately, I was unsuccessful, at least so far.

http://mullfamilies.co.uk/index.php

1. Donald Livingstone, christened 01 Jan 1828 Torosay
F. Neil Livingstone, chr. 05 Dec 1795 Torosay, d 1889 North Knapdale.
M. Mary McLean, b. abt 1797 Torosay, d 09 Dec 1879 Croggan.
Neil & Mary- m. 08 Feb 1821 Torosay.

2. Donalds Spouse 1, m. 14 July 1857;
Euphemia McLean, chr 15 Mar 1832, Glassary, d. 1866 Kinlochspelvie,
Donald & Euphemia - m. 14 July 1857.
Family as per Donalds list, but with an additional Mary b. 20 Feb. 1860, d. 08Sept 1870.

3. Spouse 2;
Euphemia (Effie)McDougall, chr. 09 Nov. 1827 Torosay.
Donald & Euphemia-m. 20 Apr. 1868, Greenock.
Only family listed, Duncan, 11 Apr. 18699 Kinlochspelvie, d. 22 Nov. 1931, Swan River, Manitoba.

4. Neil & Mary Family;
Neil Livingstone b. 27 Jan. 1794.
Mary McLeans parents, Donald & Janet McLean (both named McLean).
Mary b.abt. 05 Sept. 1797 Torosay, d. 09 Dec. 1879 Croggan.
John b. 05 May 1798 Torosay.
John b. 16 May 1800 Torosay.
Margaret b. 17 Apr. 1802 Torosay.
Robert b. 08 May 1804 Torosay.
Murdoch b. 22 May 1806, d. 28 Dec. 1879 Kilbrandon.
Isabella/Isabel b. 05 June 1809 Torosay.
Marion b. 12 July 1811, d. bef. 1840.

John.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,

In answer to your question regarding obtaining a 1921 death record for your ancestor Donald Livingston of Saskatchewan you can order it online from e-health Saskatchewan. It is apparently not available the Saskatchewan Archives. Here is the website to order the death record:

http://www.ehealthsask.ca/vitalstats/de ... fault.aspx

The family member who was the main informant may or may not have known who Donald's father was but there is a good chance they did and filled it correctly. As Donald's father lived into the late 1880's it is quite likely his sons and daughters who were born in Kilochspelvie remembered the name of their grandfather. I find usually there is problem only when a non family member is the informant which sometimes happens but not all that often. So chances are good a family member filled out his family info on his death record and was aware who Donald's parents and where he came from in Scotland. Anyways it sounds like e-health Saskatchewan have a well organized system for retrieving and making copies of death records in Saskatchewan.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

HI John,
Hope you had a good summer.
That looks an excellent source of Mull Genealogy info.
I thought there might be another child of Donald that I missed. Two of their children then died before the Donald and his second wife Euphemia and the surviving family members settled in Canada. Betty b. 1858 apparently died of typhoid and Mary died in 1870 as you say, of the Croup virus. Pretty certain now that this is Bill's family. The other Livingston family I researched that lived in the Ensay or Treshnish, Mull I may repost in a separate posting and hope that someday a descendant will see it at the forum and contact us so it was not a waste fully researching a Treshnish, Mull Livingston line though it turned out not be Bill's family. We have a number of Livingstons in the Parker Livingston group including yourself with Mull ancestry, but it would be great to bring others with both North and south Mull Livingston ancestry eventually into the project to compare their results with you and the others of Mull ancestry. Familytreedna just sent me a message that the 111 marker upgrade results had been posted for my Livingston cousin and Sandy of Nova Scotia and the additional markers tested did reveal any significant mutation and it just went from 67-1 to 111-2 when the two DNA results were compared so this other Morvern Livingston descendant appears to be a very close genetic match to my third cousin. A genetic difference of 2 markers with 111 markers tested certainly I think suggests that Sandy, my cousin and ultimately myself share a fairly close ancestral connection back in 18th century in Morvern, Argyll I suspect. Both of our Livingston families have surviving parish records indicating origins in Morvern Parish for our ancestors born in the 1770's in Argyllshire. So I assume this test is helping to support that notion. Ultimately the more Mull and Morvern Livingstons tested the better chance for this kind of close matching to show up in the tests I would think. I am sorry that I was unable to interest the family that is descended from your ancestor's brother Donald of Ross of Mull in our DNA project as that would have been no doubt helpful to you. If I come in contact with any other descendant of this family as I know that Donald had several sons who came to Ontario, Canada in the 1850's I will be sure to mention our Clan Maclea Livingstone Society Project. Obviously there may be other Livingstons out there from other Ross of Mull and Colonsay families that may be interested eventually in the Project.

One more Morvern Livingston was tested two weeks ago and his results should be completed by the lab in a few weeks hopefully. He went with the 111 test which is great. Of some significance is the fact that this recently tested Livingston of documented Morvern ancestry seems likely to have been a direct descendant of Hugh or Ewen Livingston of Savary Morvern known to be a brother of the famous Donald Livingstons 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern who as a young man of about 18 joined the Appin Regiment and participated in the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745 and was the Battle of Culloden. This may the closest we will come to finding an actual direct descendant of Donald himself which has proven to be very difficult so I am very pleased about having potentially a fourth Movern Livingston in the Parker Livingston to compliment are growing largely Mull group with the Parker Livingstons. Well that is if the test result prove to be match with the Parker Livingstons.

David Michael Livingston of the Parker Livingston group will be visiting Western Argyll soon in September, so he has promised to take some photos at Lismore, Movern and probably Mull as well while he his exploring the old Livingstone ancestral homeland. I have asked if he would include some of his photos with an article in a future Clan Society newsletter. David wrote on article several years ago for the Newsletter on his visit to Prince Edward Island, Canada where his Livingston ancestor settled by the 1840's. His ancestor is also likely from Mull be has no information on his family roots in Argyll unfortunately.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,

Neil/Niel Livingston and Mary Mclaine/Mclean of Drimnatyne, Torosay and Kilochsplelvie Parish
married Feb 2, 1821
Known Children and their birth records
1. Catharine Livingston b. February 14, 1822 Drimnatyne
2. Janet Livingston b. November 1, 1823 Drimnatyne
3. Duncan Livingston b. October 3, 1825 Drimnatyne
4. Donald Livingston b. January 1, 1828 Drimnatyne

Additional children of Neil Livington and Mary Maclaine included in 1841 and 1851 Census Drimnatyne, Kinlochspelvie
5.Alexander Livingston born abt. 1832?
6.Robert Livingston born abt. 1836 ?
7.Mary Livingston born abt. 1839 ?
8.Neil Livingston born abt. 1843 ?
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Donald Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bill,

I did a Cemetery search and there is information that Donald Livingston and Effie McDougall his wife are buried at Swan River, Manitoba and in not Saskatchewan where they had been living. As mentioned their son Duncan Livingston (1869-1939) settled in Swan River, Manitoba sometime after in came to Canada in 1881. I found information that in Birchwood Cemetery in Swan River, Manitoba, Duncan Livingston 1869-1939 is buried with his wife Bertha Livingston 1871-1949 and Donald Livingston and his wife Effie McDougall. Also a James G. Livingston 1915-1995 and Grace Livingston 1918-2012. Unfortunately there was no information as what information if any is on the Donald and Effie Livingston gravestone from the website I found this info

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... Livingston

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/sites/birchwoodcemetery.shtml

There is a map included on the second link regarding the Beachwood Cemetery of the MHS Manitoba Historical society which can be adjusted in size so that you can see that Swan River where it is located on just a little east of the Manitoba Saskatchewan and you can then see where Yorkton Sask is in relation to Swan River, Manitoba. Both are close to the Manitoba Saskatchewan border. Anyways the info I found is that your ancestor Donald and his wife Effie are buried with their son Duncan I mentioned in the Beechwood Cemetery in Swan River, Manitoba where son Duncan b. 1869 in Croggan, Kinlochsplelvie, Mull lived in the early 1900's. This Livingston family search gets more interesting all the time with many twists and turns.

regards,

Donald






Donald
Post Reply