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jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Assistance request

Post by jmlivingstone »

Donald,

Below is a request I received from Michael at Mull Families for assistance, any info available Livingstones in Ontario will be of help.

A merry, if belated, Christmas, & a happy new year too everyone, from a very wet & windy Scotland,

John.


John

I'm doing occasional work on the MF website, and currently it's Livingston from Mull to Ontario.

I came across old postings from 2009 from yourself and others regarding links to the family of David Livingston.

I've linked these families up as best as I see them, making David (and brother John) first cousins once removed to John, Duncan and Alexander of Dalhousie.

I read somewhere that John was supposed to have married Catherine Sinclair, but this marriage was 1827 Glasgow and they had children 1830s (conflicts with John emigrating 1820/1821). Also, it's known that Alexander married Mary Currie, but what about their brother Duncan bap 1791 ?. He emigrated with 6 children, but who was his wife !! ?

I originally had Mary McNEIL d/o Jean Livingston m. to Alexander McDougall with a dau Jane born 1855 Tobermory F3356, but replaced her with another Mary McNeil due to her emigrating to Canada.

Also in Canada, as well as Hugh McNeil born 1823, I found a Jane McNeil born 1830 (details on site).

You can have a look sometime and let me know what you think. I especially would like to know about Duncan 1791 (his wife/children)


Michael
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Assistance request

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,

Hope you had a good Christmas. Had a bit of snow and cold weather before Christmas but after Christmas the temperatures rose quite a bit and we have had quite a bit of rain with some of the snow melting. From time to time the temperature drops, the rain freezes and then we have been getting a bit of icy road conditions.

I have to be honest with you. Even after all these years I am still not entirely certain precisely how Duncan Livingston of Lettermore, Mull who was married to Christian Beaton apparently lived at Lettermore in the 1780's and 1790's if not before that, was related to Dr. Livingstone. My best guess based on what Dr. Livingstone's brother said in the 1870's that one of Duncan's sons that had lived on the "highland Line" (In Dalhousie Township, Lanark County, Ontario, Canada) was "a cousin", but I would not think he was a first cousin. Duncan the father must have been related in some way to Dr. Livingstone's grandfather perhaps a brother or cousin but I should emphasize that would not have been a son. Dr. Livingstone and his brother John were born in 1813 and 1811 in lowland Blantyre, Lanarkshire. It is not clear just how much they knew regarding Livingston relatives that lived in Lettermore, Mull in the 1700's. Dr. Livingstone knew that his Livingston grandfather lived near the southern coast of the Isle of Ulva and visited Island focusing his search for any relatives there in the 1860's, but by any relatives were long gone from the Island. He does not mention the fact that his grandparents Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison lived and were married in 1774 at Lettermore and some of their children in the 1770's were born at Lettermore, Mull before the family moved to croft near the southern coast of the Isle of Ulva. That being said it makes sense that his older brother John might have been aware that the Livingston brothers and their sister children of Donald Livingston and Christian Beaton of Lettermore, Mull that settled in Dalhousie, Lanark County back in the 1820's about 20 years before he himself originally settled in Lanark County, Ontario in the early 1840's were "cousins".

I suspect that Duncan Livingston was related to Dr. Livingtone's grandfather Neil Livingston who married in 1774 at Lettermore and lived their a few years in the 1770's before settling on the Isle of Ulva, therefore his sons and daughters would be related to Dr. Livingstone and his family and would the children of Duncan and Christian that settled in the area of Highland Line in Lanark County in the 1820's would be possibly related to them. It is just not clear to me how they are related. Perhaps second cousins, but I don't think they would be first cousins of Dr. Livingstone and his brother.

Who was Duncan Livingston husband of Christian Beaton and father of Jean, Duncan, John, Alexander and Catharine?
1. One notion was that Duncan Livingston b abt 1780 or so, an older brother of Dr. Livingstone's grandfather Neil Livingston who was born in 1788, was the father of the Jean b. 1788,(Mrs. Neil McNeil) Duncan 1791, John 1792, Alexander 1797 and Catharine b.1800 (Mrs Duncan Stewart) I think that notion can be ruled out that if Neil indeed had a brother Duncan as Dr. Livingstone's brother stated in 1891 that he would be too young to be the father of the those Livingstons who settled in Lanark County in the 1820's.

2. A more sensible theory is that Duncan Livingston that was the father of the above mentioned children who settled in the 1820's in Lanark County, Upper Canada was born almost certainly before the 1770's. Some have suggested in the 1740's or perhaps a little later than that. So not a son of Dr. Livingtone's grandfather then perhaps old Duncan of Lettermore was a younger brother of Dr. Livingstone's grandfather. Dr. Livingstone's brother John stated that one or two sons of Duncan of Lettermore, Mull that settled in the 1820's on lots in the highland line, Lanark County, Upper Canada were "cousins" but I do not think they were first cousins of John or his brother Dr. Livingstone. John did state he had an Uncle named Duncan but he would have to have been born in the 1770's after 1774 when Dr. Livingstone's grandfather married Mary Morrison in Lettermore. I think that one chart suggests that Dr. Livingtone's Uncle Duncan Livingston was born abt. 1780/1781 with some speculative information suggesting he died during the Napoleonic Wars. I pretty much ruled him out long ago as being the father of the Livingstons who settled in the 1820's in Lanark County from Lettermore family because this Duncan said to be a brother of grandfather Neil Livingston of Lettermore and later of the Isle of Ulva, Mull an Blantyre Lanarkshire is just too young if he was born around 1780 or sometime between 1774 and 1780 and not recorded in the Kilinian records which is in fact the case.

So this is my problem then. This group of Livingstons with a Lettermore, Mull connection do seem likely to be related to Dr. Livingstone and his brother. I don't doubt that possibility they are "cousins". I just don't see an easy explanation as to how they are related a don't see if likely they would be as closely related cousins as has been suggested. I just don't see how that scenario could be the case.

Regarding possible relatives of Dr. Livingstone, I have just completed research on a Donald Livingston possibly born in the 1770'a who settled in Blantyre in the early 1800's more than a decade after Dr. Livingstone's grandfather whom may be either an unrecorded son of Dr. Livingstone's grandfather or a nephew of the grandfather who settled in Blantyre of 1792. I have struggled with the connection of this Donald Livingston to Dr. Livingstone's family since 2006 or so and I am not honestly able to state for certain which he is but I have unlocked information on his origins that has been for many years been buried in the confusion of a 19th century historian. Regardless of how he is related to Dr. Livingtone's grandfather it is clear to me that he almost certainly was and Dr. Livingstone's grandfather's settling in Blantyre seems to be the reason this Donald Livingston, his wife Catharine and family Joined Dr. Livingstone's grandfather in Blantyre around 1808 or earlier. I was to publish an article this in this month's Parnassus on this Donald but was too busy with Christmas and went with an article on of old Myles McInnes of Savary and the Savary, Morvern McInnes Clan family connection to Clan Livingston.

One way to begin to solve this mystery would be to try and locate a Livingstone descendant of Duncan Livingstone and Christian Beaton and see if they would be interested in participating in the Maclea Livingstone Society DNA project and compare their results with that of a great-nephew of Dr. David Livingstone who was tested several years ago. In the new year perhaps we can see if there is any chance of there being living Livingstone descendants of one of the sons. I don't know what became of Duncan's son Duncan Jr. He left the area back in the 1820's. The son Alexander Livington died in 1840 in Lanark County, Ontario and by 1842 there was just his widow Mary Currie and their son Duncan Livingston and her brother John Livingston in terms of Livingstons. Later Alexanders widow and her son Duncan left Lanark County. Not sure if her son Duncan Alex's son had children or if his Uncle John Livingston had children. So if there are any descendants they would have be from Alex's son Duncan or from Duncan's Uncle John's family if he had any. A DNA test would really be helpful here in confirming that that the brothers who settled in the 1820's in Lanark County were indeed cousins of some sort with Dr. Livingstone and his family.


More on the family of Duncan Livingston of Christian Beaton who settled in Upper Canada tomorrow and will see if I can be any help regarding the inquiry.

My sinuses are a a bit clogged today but not stopping me from continuing celebrating an extended holiday season with family, but the genealogical research must continue. Really excited about my latest breakthrough with the Morvern Livingston research. A genealogical hunch turned out to be a year later proven to be right on the mark. More on that in 2017.

Glad to hear you have been working on the Mull Livingstons. I have some great news to share with you regarding the Morvern Livingstons and I have been working with some Morvern Livingstons to try and expand that branch of our Mull/Morvern/Ardnamurchan family group that all seems to share a common Maconlea ancestor in Morvern or perhaps nearby Achnacree, Western Argyll before that. In the new year I hope to continue working the Morvern Livingstons with the eventual goal of linking the research information of my Morvern Livingston cousins with my Mull Livingston cousins of which you are one.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Assistance request

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,
This is a work in progress. I have looking over my old notes of the family of Duncan Livingston and Christian Beaton that settled in Dalhousie Township, Lanark County.

In response to Michael's inquiries,

From my earlier checking of the early land records in Dalhousie Township, Lanark County where Duncan Livingston and Christian Beaton's son John, Duncan, Alexander and one other unknown and unmentioned son Hugh settled in the early 1820's in close proximity to one another.
By 1824 we had Alexander on 11-5 W, Hugh on 9-6w, John on 10-6 e and Duncan on 9-7w in close proximity to each other. Studying the deed abstract for Dalhousie Township and the 1842 Dalhousie Township Census it is clear Duncan sold his lot in 1827 and Hugh's lot ended up in the hands of John Levington with the mysterious and unknown brother Hugh and Duncan born abt. 1791 disappearing from scene. In answer to Michael's inquiry regarding Duncan LIvingston and christian Beaton's son Duncan born abt. 1791 and who settled on an adjacent lot in Dalhousie Township, Lanark Township with the other brothers and a sister Catharine (Mrs Duncan Stewart), he sold his lot in 1827 and disappeared from Dalhousie Township and I have no idea what became of him of his mysterious brother Hugh not mentioned by other researchers and likely born in the 1700's. The son Alexander died in 1840 so by the 1840's in Dalhousie Township there was just the brother John Livingston and his wife Catharine Sinclair and their family, Alexander's widow Mary (Currie) and her son Duncan and their neighbour Catharine Livingston and her husband Duncan Stewart and their family. By 1866 Alexander Livingston's widow Mary and her son Duncan Livingston had left Lanark County and settled in Minnesota where Mary died in 1869.


Known Children of Donald Livingston and Christian Beaton of Lettermore, Mull (Updated List)
1.Jean [Jane] (bap) 26 Nov 1788 d. Feb.9,1864 Brock, Ontario married Neil McNeil b. Oct. 28,1786 Mull d. June 28,1870 Brock, Ontario Buried McNeil Cemetery, Wick, Ontario Incription on tombstone:
“Neil McNeil died Jan. 26, 1870 age 88, Jane Livingston his wife died Feb. 8, 1864 age 74 Natives of Mull, Argyllshire”
2.Duncan (bap) 15 Apr 1791 - ? (Duncan's lot sold in 1827 and left Dalhousie Township, no further info on him.)
3.John (bap) 22 Aug 1792 - ? married Catharine Sinclair
4.Alexander born abt. 1796 in Lettermore, Mull? d. April 11, 1840 old Highland Line Scottish pioneer cemetery in Dalhousie Township m. Mary Currie b. abt. 1795 at Bailibeg, Strachur, Argyllshire died From the Perth Courier, issue March 26, 1869 (Perth, Lanark County, Ontario, Canada): "DEATH - Suddenly, 31 January, 1869 in the Twp. of Jo Davis, Faribault Cty., Minn., Mary CURRIE, widow of the late Alexander LIVINGSTONE, aged 73 years. A native of Argyll, Scotland, she came to Canada in 1822 and resided in Dalhousie Twp., Lanark Cty. until 1866 when she moved to Minnesota."
5.Catherine (bap) 10 Sep 1800 died Oct. 31, 1885 85 years Perth, Ontario, Canada (Lived near other Livingston relatives in Dalhousie township, Lanark County then moved to Perth, Ontario in 1852) m. Duncan Stewart
6. Hugh born unknown briefly lived in Dalhousie Township,likely an unknown brother living adjacent to the other Livington Lettermore Mull brothers briefly in the 1820's then disappeared. His lot at Concession 9 Lot 6 west acquired by John Livingston son of Duncan Livingston and Christian Beaton in 1820's.

Children of John Livingston b. abt. 1792 in Lettermore, Mull and Catharine Sinclair Dalhousie Township, Lanark County, Ontario
Alexander Livingston born abt. 1840 Dalhousie Township
Catharine Livingston born abt. 1837 d. Oct. 30, 1869 in Dalhousie Twp. Lanark County m. Sept 7, 1866 John Weir b. Dec. 10, 1840 Bathurst twp, Lanark co. d. April 10, 1926 Bathurst Twp. Lanark County, Ontario.
Margaret Livingston born abt. 1842
Neil Livingston born abt. 1844
Mary Livingston born abt. 1847
Hugh Livingston born abt. 1852


John Livingston the father died sometime between 1861 and 1871 in Dalhousie Township

1871 Census Dalhousie Township, Lanark County
Niel Livingston age 23
Hugh Livingston age 18
Cathrine Livingston age 64 (widow)
Margaret Livingston age 26
Mary Livingston age 22
H. Margaret Weir age 3

The John Livingston’ farm in Dalhousie Township at Concession 9 Lot 6 was apparently sold about 1873 and the remaining members of that family seem to have left Dalhousie Towsnship after that and I cannot find as yet where they went after 1873.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Assistance request

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,

I think there is a probable family connection possibly between Dr. Livingstone's grandfather Neil Livingston born in the 1740's? and lived in the 1770's at Lettermore, Mull and Duncan Livingston married Christian Beaton who lived at Lettermore, Mull in the 1780's, but I think that Dr. Livingstone and his brother John likely would have been more likely second cousins to the sons of Duncan Livingston and Christian Beaton that settled in Dalhousie Township, Lanark County in the early 1820's. And Duncan is unlikely to be a son of Dr. Livingstone's grandfather given this family info below. Duncan would have been born Dr. Livingstone's grandfather married in 1774 I would think. So I think Duncan must have been a cousin of Neil Livingston the grandfather of Dr. Livingstone and his brother John in Canada and more distant cousin of Dr. Livingstone and John. John may have chosen Lanark County in the 1840's when he left Scotland because he had heard their was a large scottish settlement there established in the early 1820's, but he may also have been told by his father Neil Livingston Jr. of family cousins from Mull who had settled there 20 years earlier. It is even possible that when the grandfather Neil Livingston Sr. and family left their croft at Lettermore, Mull in the late 1770's for the Isle of Ulva that Duncan or some of his livingston kin moved into his croft at Lettermore. That of course is speculation.

If as Dr. Livingstone stated in his 1857 book that his great-grandfather died in the battle of Culloden in 1746 then if Duncan was a brother then he would have to been born before 1746 and would have been over the age of 40 when their first child was born. Possible but my best hunch is that Duncan Livingston of Lettermore could have been a first cousin or perhaps a nephew to Neil Livingstone Sr., Dr. Livingstone's grandfather. I don't think there is any way Duncan could have been an Uncle of Dr. Livingstone and his brother John in Canada.

Neil Livingston m. Mary Morrison at Lettermore,Mull
Dec. 27, 1774
1. Mary Livingston b.Feb. 4,1776 Lettermore, Mull
2. John Livingston b. April 13,1777 Lettermore,Mull
3. Charles Livingston b. May 23, 1779 Cove or Cave, Isle of Ulva
4. Margaret Livingston b. April 6 1783 Cove or Cave, Isle of Ulva
5. Catharine Livingston b. Sept. 10, 1785 Cove or Cave, Isle of Ulva
6.Neil Livingston Jr. b. Nov 30,1788 Ferinadory, Isle of Ulva not far from the "Cave"
(Four sons were said to have left with Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison in 1792 for Blantyre I think it likely it was a Donald Livingston born abt. 1780. rather than a Duncan as has been suggested by some
in the past.) More on that in my next Parnassus article.

Duncan Livingston m. Christian Beaton in the 1780's in Lettermore Mull
1.Jean [Jane] (bap) 26 Nov 1788 born Lettermore d. Feb.9,1864 Brock, Ontario married Neil McNeil b. Oct. 28,1786 Mull d. June 28,1870 Brock, Ontario Buried McNeil Cemetery, Wick, Ontario Incription on tombstone:
“Neil McNeil died Jan. 26, 1870 age 88, Jane Livingston his wife died Feb. 8, 1864 age 74 Natives of Mull, Argyllshire”
2.Duncan (bap) 15 Apr 1791 born Lettermore - died ? (Duncan's lot sold in 1827 and left Dalhousie Township, no further info on him.)
3.John (bap) 22 Aug 1792 born Lettermore - d. between 1861 and 1871 married Catharine Sinclair
4.Alexander born abt. 1796 probably in Lettermore, Mull d. April 11, 1840 old Highland Line Scottish pioneer cemetery in Dalhousie Township m. Mary Currie b. abt. 1795 at Bailibeg, Strachur, Argyllshire died From the Perth Courier, issue March 26, 1869 (Perth, Lanark County, Ontario, Canada): "DEATH - Suddenly, 31 January, 1869 in the Twp. of Jo Davis, Faribault Cty., Minn., Mary CURRIE, widow of the late Alexander LIVINGSTONE, aged 73 years. A native of Argyll, Scotland, she came to Canada in 1822 and resided in Dalhousie Twp., Lanark Cty. until 1866 when she moved to Minnesota."
5.Catherine (bap) 10 Sep 1800 born Lettermore died Oct. 31, 1885 85 years Perth, Ontario, Canada (Lived with husband near other Livingston relatives in Dalhousie township, Lanark County then moved to Perth, Ontario in 1852) m. Duncan Stewart
6. Hugh born unknown briefly lived in Dalhousie Township according to original 1820's land records, possibly an unknown brother living adjacent to other Livingtons briefly in the 1820's then disappeared. His lot at Concession 9 Lot 6 west acquired by John Livingston son of Duncan Livingston and Christian Beaton in 1820's.


In conclusion the statement in the 1870's by Dr. Livingstone's brother John Livingstone 1811-1899 of Listowel, Perth County, Ontario, Canada that the "Highland Line" Livingstons of Lanark County, Ontario that used to live in Dalhousie Township and were in Lettermore, Mull were "cousins" of his seems to be quite probable, though there is no evidence to support the notion these children of Duncan Livingston and Christian Beaton of Lettermore who settled in Dalhousie Township, Lanark County, Upper Canada part of the Lanark Military settlement land grants in Lanark County in the early 1820's were first cousins. Definite related and cousins just not first cousins I would think. The closest family connection with Dr. Livingstone and his brother John's family back in Scotland I would think would have been between their grandfather Neil Livingston Sr. born in the 1740's? and this Duncan Livingston who was married to Christian Beaton and lived in Lettermore according to the Kilninian Parish records from at least 1780's and 1790's and possibly before and after that.

1. The Kilninian Parish, Mull Church of Scotland records indicate that Dr. Livingstone's grandparents Neil Levingston and Mary Morrison were married in 1774 in Kilninian Parish while residing at Lettermore, Mull. The parish records also indicate that their eldest children Mary and John were born while the family were residing at Lettermore, Mull during the years between 1774 and 1778. By 1779 Neil Livingston Sr, Mary Morrison and their children had moved to the Cove or Cave near the southern coast of the Isle of Ulva where a third child Charles Livingston was born apparently that year.

2. The Kilninian Parish Church of Scotland records indicate that in 1788 Duncan Levingston and Christian Beaton of Lettermore, Mull had a child a daughter Jean or Jane baptized in 1788, a son Duncan baptized in 1791, a son John baptized 1792, a son Alexander born abt. 1796 almost certainly while the family was residing at Lettermore and a daughter Catharine baptized in 1800. Another son Hugh is mentioned in the early land records in the early 1820's when the sons of Duncan Livingston and Christian Beaton and a daughter settled in Dalhousie Township, Lanark County, Upper Canada (Ontario, Canada) abt. 1821.

3. One interesting thing I discovered is that not only were both Dr. Livingstone's grandfather and his family recorded as residing for at time in the 1770's in Lettermore and the family of Duncan Livingston and Christian Beaton were recorded as residents of Lettermore in 1780's and thereafter, they seem to have been the only Livingston families residing at Lettermore to be recorded in the Kilninian Parish record from the 1760's up to year 1821 as far as I could tell. I have researched a number of Mull Livingstons over the years that lived in Kilninian Parish during that period and when looking back this morning I found it interesting that my search seems to only found parish records from that period for two Livingston families. Perhaps this apparent fact if correct then helps to reinforce the notion that Neil Livingston Sr., Dr. Livingstone's grandfather was related to this Duncan Levingston of Lettermore Mull who according to the Kilninian Parish, Mull baptism records was residing in Lettermore at least a decade after Neil Livingston, his wife Mary Morrison and their two eldest children John and Mary left if not before.

4. Dr. Livingstone's older brother John Livingstone was apparently encouraged by his brother to settle in Canada and he did so in the early 1840's. The fact that John Livingston and his wife Sarah McKenzie ended up firstly in Lanark Township, Lanark County which not far from Dalhousie Township in Lanark County, Upper Canada where the sons of Duncan Livingston and Christian Beaton of Lettermore settled about 20 years earlier, may not have been a coincidence. The Lanark Military settlement of Upper Canada established in 1821 attracted a numerous Scottish folk that year including a number of Livingston families of Perthshire, Scottish Livingston origin not related to the Lettermore, Mull Livingstons or Dr. Livingtone's family but who were part of an emigration society and who received grants around that time. Duncan Livingston and Christian Beaton's family that settled around 1821 in Lanark County as part of this Lanark Military settlement are often confused as having arrived in 1821 with the Livingston's of Perthshire but a check of the original lists of the emigration societies in the Ontario, Canada Archives several years ago, confirmed that the Lettermore, Mull Livingstons that arrived in Lanark County, Upper Canada were not connected to the Perthshire Livingstons or the emigration society they left from Scotland with in 1821 contrary to some later published research which states that they were.

That being said John Livingston may have been made aware that Lanark County, Upper Canada contained many settlers of Scottish origin, but is just as likely that he was aware or became aware that some Mull Livingston cousins from Lettermore connected to his Grandfather Livingston's family before they lived on the Isle and Ulva and went to Blantyre, Lanarkshire, Scotland had settled in Lanark County, Upper Canada some 20 years earlier in 1821. That could have been a motivating factor to settle in Lanark County. All that I really know is that Dr. Livingstone's brother mentioned knowing that the Dalhousie township, Livingston family that lived on the Highland Line or had lived on the Highland line were cousins of his. I had this story and actually found John very briefly in one sentence in a newspaper interview mention this in a newspaper search a few years ago, but unfortunately I have forgotten in which newspaper I saw his comment. I believe it was in an article published in the 1870's at the time when there was so much excitement about Dr. Livingstone being found by Stanley and John from time to time being interviewed by journalists.

Ultimately, a familytreedna test would confirm without doubt that two Livingston families that at one time lived at Lettermore Mull were infact related, but I have have had no luck tracking "Livingston" family lines after the 1870's when the last of the Livingstons that had lived in Dalhousie Township seemed to have left. That was not fortunately the case with my research of Dr. Livingstone's brother John Livingstone 1811-1899. Dr. Livingstone's brother John Livingston left Lanark Township, Lanark County by about 1860 and became a store merchant selling paints and lamp oil and other items in Listowel, Perth County , Ontario, Canada and unlike his famous brother lived a long life before his death in Listowel in 1899.

regards,

Donald
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