Neil Livingston and sons Angus and Donald Shiaba Rossof Mull

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Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Neil Livingston and sons Angus and Donald Shiaba Rossof Mull

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

From Inhabitants of the Argyll Estate 1779 Edited by Eric Creegan Scottish Record Society Volume 91 published 1963

Sheabach, Ross of Mull, Mull, Argyll (Shiaba, Kilfinchen and Kilvickeon Parish, Ross of Mull) 1779
"Neil Livingstone, Keeper age 40
Angus his son age 4
Donald his son age 2
His wife, mother and daughters 4
A parcel of widows 4 "


Church of Scotland Baptism Records for Kilfinchen and Kilvickeon Parish, Ross of Mull
Angus Livingston crofter and (Chelsea Pensioner formerly with the Argyll Fencibles) and his wife Margaret Hale (McPhail)
Surviving Baptism information their Children from Kilfinchen and Kilvickeon Parish entries
1.John Livingston of Kilpatrick 07/02/1805
2.Betty Livingston of Kilpatrick 25/04/1807
3.Cirsty Livingston of Siaba (Shiaba) 29/10/1809
4. Duncan Livingston of Siaba (Shiaba) 30/09/1814
5. daughter? nameless Livingston of Siaba (Shiaba) 19/09/1816 (name left blank; a son James Livingston was born abt. 1816 not recorded in baptism records)
6. Hugh Livingston of Siaba (Shiaba) 06/06/1819
7.Ann Livingston of Siaba (Shiaba) 29/09/1821
I believe from above baptism info, that Angus Livingston crofter of Siaba (Shiaba) Ross of Mull is Angus Livingston son of Neil Livingston of Sheabach (Shiaba) and brother to Donald Livingston who was married to Cirsty (Christina) Campbell
Pensioner Angus Livingston died in Paisley, Renfrewshire in October of 1847 likely at the home of his son Hugh Livingston who had left Colonsay, Argyll around 1842 for the lowland Glasgow and was living in Paisley Renfrewshire by the mid 1840's. In the 1841 Census Angus and his wife Margaret are living in a croft in Colonsay, Argyll with some of their children including a son James and Hugh according to the 1841 Census. Beginning in 1845 there was a potato famine affecting the poor crofters of Ross of Mull and neighbouring Colonsay and the result was malnutrition, disease clearances, migration and emigration of many of the tenants. There was much death in 1846 and 1847 from disease in Argyllshire and elsewhere in Scotland and it seems likely that both old Angus and his wife Margaret may have taken sick during this difficult time for impoverished tenants and landless cottars.


James Livingston born abt. 1816 appears in the 1841 Census residing with old Angus Livingston and his family at their croft in Colonsay, Argyll and is probably a son not recorded in the surviving baptism records which is not an uncommon occurrence in the early 19th century Church of Scotland Parish records. It is known that James married Mary McMillan on April 15,1842 in Colonsay in the Church of Scotland District of Jura and subsequently left Colonsay in 1843 after the birth of their first child Ann for Canada where they firstly settled in Eldon Township, Victoria County and later Arthur Township, Wellington County, Ontario where James Livingston died on December 23, 1894. Included here is the 1841 Census of last census with old Angus Livingston showing James Livingston before his marriage living with his (probable) father Angus and mother Margaret and other siblings including a son of Angus Livingston who was Hugh Livingston. Also residing with Angus and James is a Malcolm McMillan and is wife Christina McMillan age 25 who according to her marriage record was Christina Livingston. It is interesting that both this Christina Livingston McMillan born abt. 1816 and James Livingston born abt. 1816 are not recorded in the Kilfinchen Parish Ross of Mull Baptism records as children of Angus Livingston and Margaret Hale. There was a Cirsty livingston baptized in 1809 but I think it has been confirmed that she is a different person than this Christina Livingston who married Malcolm McMillan on the 26th of June 1840 in Colonsay. So we actually have 2 Livingstons both abt. 25 years of age James Livingston and Christina Livingston McMillan residing with old Angus and his family at his croft at Urigaig on the Isle of Colonsay in the church District of Jura. James does seem to have born abt. 1816 1817 as confined by his later census information in Canada. I am not sure about Christina Livingston Mcmillan. Some of ages given in the 1841 Census info are not accurate including Angus Livingstons.There is already in the baptisms a daughter named Cirsty baptized earlier in 1809 who is not person as this Christina born abt. 1816 who married a Malcolm McMillan in 1840 in Colonsay. So connecting James and this Christina Livingston McMillan with Angus and Margaret is difficult but I believe they are likely younger children of Angus and margaret Livingston born while the they were still residing at Siaba (Shiaba, Ross of Mull.

(The age for Angus Livingston in this census is not correct)
1841 Census Uragaig, (Colonsay) District Of neighbouring Jura
Angus Livingston age 60 Army Pensioner
Margreat Livingston age 55
James Livingston age 25
Hugh Livingston age 20
Ann Livingston age 15
Jean Livingston age 11
Malcolm McMillan age 25
Christina McMillan age 25 (Christina Livingston)
Duncan Livingston age 6 months
https://canmore.org.uk/site/37880/colonsay-uragaig
Angus Livingston born in the 1770's Army Pensioner who had served in Ireland in the late 1700's to about 1801 or 1802 with the Argyll Fencibles died according to his last Chelsea Pension record entry in October of 1847 in Paisley Renfrewshire where it is known that his son Hugh Livingston was living at by the mid 1840's. Also living in Paisley, Renfrewshire by the time of Angus Livingston's death was one of his daughters. There was much malnutrition and sickness in WesternArgyllshire in 1847 and in the more populated areas of lowland Scotland that year.

Donald Livingston crofter, worker and grass keeper and his wife Cirsty Campbell
Surviving Baptism information of their Children

1. Neil Livingston of Assapol 11/03/1805
2.Hugh Livingston of Kilpatrick 22/10/1809
3. Alexander Livingston of Kilpatrick 31/05/1812
4. John Livingston of Assapol o6/12/1814
5. Duncan Livingston of Assapol 28/02/1817
6. Cirsty Livingston of Assapol 26/08/1824

Donald Livingston crofter, agricultural labourer of Ardtun, Ross of Mull is likely a brother of the above mentioned Angus Livingston and in the early 1800's Donald and Angus were both briefly residing in Kilpatrick and before married likely the two were two sons of Neil Livingston residing at his croft in Siaba (Shiaba) Ross of Mull. Donald Livingston, his wife Cirsty Campbell lived all their lives in Ross of Mull. By the time of the 1841 Census they are residing at Ardfinaig, Ross of Mull In the mid 1840's around the time of the Scottish Potato famine Donald and Cirsty were probably resettled at Ardtun with some of the remaining impoverished tenants and cotters who had by this time not emigrated to Canada or Australia or migrated to the lowlands. The 1861 Census information refers to Donald as a Pauper and former agricultural labourer. Most of their children left Ross of Mull for Canada in the 1840's and 1850's but Donald and and Cirsty remained in Ross and Mull in their final years as paupers at Ardtun and died there in 1866 and 1861.

scenery in the Ardtun, Ross of Mull area
http://www.isleofmullcottages.com/locat ... tun-2.html

old Kilvickeon church and graveyard site
http://www.mull-historical-society.co.u ... ilvickeon/


Donald
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: Neil Livingston and sons Angus and Donald Shiaba Rossof

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,

We discussed this a while ago and I agree it is interesting that the 1816 baptism info confirms that a Livingston a daughter apparently was baptized in 1816 a child of Angus and Margret but is not named. The last child recorded as baptized before that is Duncan in 1814 and then Hugh in 1819. That is about 5 years and the odds are that there were in fact 2 children not one born between the years 1815 and 1819. I know that you have suggested that the unknown daughter baptized in 1816 might have actually been James Livingston born abt. 1816. I am thinking that both a daughter and son born around 1815 or 1816 or both born in the year 1816 should have been recorded during that time in the baptismal entries in that book. I am suspecting that both a daughter apparently Christina (Mrs Malcolm McMillan born abt. 1815/1816 and the probable son James Livingston born sometime in the 1815-1817 period was not mentioned by name in that old baptism book of Kilfinichen Parish by the parish minister but were infact likely two of the children of Angus and Margret not easily obvious from the baptism records to present day family researchers.

regards,

Donald
jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Neil Livingston and sons Angus and Donald Shiaba Rossof

Post by jmlivingstone »

Donald,

Hugh is listed in Glasgow Post Office Directories as a manufacturer of weaving machinery & equipment, presumably he was in business for himself, what eventually happened to him, I have no clue, yet. Do you still have info on the Hugh who emigrated to Canada ?

It makes you wonder, when you think on Hugh probably running his own business, while his sister was dying in the poorhouse, a strange one.

Did Angus & Margaret go first to Islay, then to Paisley, after Colonsay, Margaret is never heard of again after Colonsay, presumably she died, probably on Islay.

At some point I came across an OPR for a Janet, b. 1816 at Shiaba, the writing was extremely poor, so one theory was that it was actually James, not Janet, apparently this is quite a common transcription error.

Unfortunately, while I am happy to accept that James is almost certainly a son of Angus & Margaret, I have been unable to find this OPR again, at least so far, I'm still looking. Christina is a bigger problem, I can find no indication of what her relationship could be to Angus & Margaret as yet.

I noticed the following in the 1881 Canada census;

James Livingstone, b. Argyll, 66yrs., occ. weaver.

Mary (wife) 57 yrs/Margaret 30 yrs/Mary 28 yrs/Jane 26 yrs/Angus 24 yrs/Elisabeth 20 yrs/Sophia 16yrs/James 13yrs/Donald 9yrs/Mary 8yrs, all born Ontario.

John.
jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Neil Livingston and sons Angus and Donald Shiaba Rossof

Post by jmlivingstone »

Alexander Livingstone.

Alexander Livingstone, chr. 31 May 1812 at Kilfinichen & Kilvickeon, d. 1886 Grey Co., Ontario, buried Rocky Saugeen Cemetery.

f. Donald Livingstone.
m. Christina Campbell.

Wife. Ann McKinnon, Chr. 27 July 1826, d. 1907, Grey Co., Ontario.

Family of Alexander & Ann.

1). Donald b. abt. 1848 K & K, d. bfr. 1857.

2). Duncan b. 24 May 1850 K & K, d. 01 Oct. 1931, Bentinck Twp., Grey Co., Ont., buried Rocky Saugeen Cemetery.

3). John b. 1852 K & K.

4). Malcolm b. 1854 Bentinck Twp., d. 10 Oct. 1935, Elmwood, Grey Co. buried Elmwood Cemetery, Grey Co.
Wife Mary Pepper b. 28 Apr 1862, Bruce Co., Ont.

5). Donald A. b. abt. 1857 Bentinck Twp., d. 27 May 1927, Durham, Bentinck.

6). Christina b. 1861 Bentinck Twp., d. 1963 Bentinck.

7). Jennie b. 1865 Bentinck Twp., d. 1895 Grey Co.

Spouse, Dugald McDonald b. 31 May 1883 Bentinck Twp.

5,6 & 7 all buried Rocky Saugeen Cemetery.

John.
jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Neil Livingston and sons Angus and Donald Shiaba Rossof

Post by jmlivingstone »

Donald Livingstone b. abt. 1777 Shiaba, K & K.

f. Neil b. abt. 1739 Shiaba.
m. Christina Boyd b. abt. 1740 Shiaba.

Wife. Christina Cambell b. abt. 1779 K & K, d. 14 Sept. 1861, Ardtun, K & K.

Donald & Christina Family.

1). Neil chr. 11 Mar 1805, Assopol.

2). Jean chr. 03 July 1807 K & K, d. 18 Aug. 1872 Deargphort, K & K.
Spouse. Wm. Vass chr. 26 Mar. 1816, Logie, Easter Ross & Cromarty.

3). Hugh chr. 22 Oct. 1809 K & K.

4). Alexander see previous info.

5). John chr. 06 Dec. 1814, Assapol, K & K, d. 01 May 1883, Glenelg Twp., Grey Co.
Wife. Catherine Campbell chr. 23 June 1814 K & K.

6). Duncan chr. 28 Feb. 1817, Assapol, d. 1870 Grey Co.
Wife Ann McPhail chr. 26 Feb. 1822 K & K.
Married 14 Mar. 1868 Iona.

7). Christina/Cirsty chr. 26 Aug. 1824 K & K.

8). Catherine b. abt, 1828, d. aft. 1861.

John.
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Neil Livingston and sons Angus and Donald Shiaba Rossof

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,

Thank-you for your update. I checked that 1816 entry again with Scotlands people from the old Church of Scotland Kilfinchen Parish book and as you say it was for a baptism of a daughter in 1816 or at least it was recorded oddly enough as a Livingston daughter of "Siaba" parents Angus Livingston and Margaret Hale or Hall. The date of baptism I noted was "19/09/1816". You could be right about it being James or maybe James and Mrs. Malcolm McMillan (Christina Livingston) residing at Uragaig in the year 1841 were twins or Chistina Livingston McMIllan was an adopted relative whose parents died when she was young by Angus and Margaret. I think you can see looking at the 1841 Census that there may be some sort of family connection with this Mrs Malcolm McMillan that is living with Angus and Margaret along with James, Hugh and other children listed in the 1841 Census. The parish marriage records confirms that this Christine McMillan is was Christina Livingston before her marriage. By 1841, she her husband Malcolm who she married in 1840 and an their infant is living apparently with old Angus and Margaret. The Argyll Church of Scotland parish records are actually quite incomplete quite frequently. And while in many cases they can provide a pretty comprehensive list of baptisms or births of one's ancestors it is not infrequently that I come across a family member that is simply for reasons unknown not recorded in the old parish books. I don't know how Christina Livingston fits in Angus and Margaret's family but I am assuming for lack of any other explanation that both James and this Christina Livingston McMillan (Mrs. Malcolm McMillan were some sort of kin to Angus and Margaret. I suspect they were (particularly James) their children but as we have no proof it can only be said to be speculation. I believe Malcolm Macmillan and his wife Christina Livingston went to Ontario Canada but did not find them. I did notice that the descendant of James Livingston in Canada had an obituary I think for James Livingston wife mary and it mentioned a Malcolm McMillan was living in Ontario at the time of her death but I did not find him where the article said he was living at the time of her death. So yet another mystery.

The more I learn about the 1840's in Western Argyllshire the more I realize how difficult things must have been for your Livingston ancestor Angus Livingston, his wife Margaret and their family in Scotland. This family and many other families like them living a marginal existence of subsistence farming in parishes throughout Western Argyllshire were in no position to endure for long what was about to hit Colonsay, Ross of Mull, Morvern and other parishes in Western Argyll beginning in 1846. Angus Livingston's brother''s sons left for Canada apparently in the late 1840's and early 1850's. What happened to Angus Livingston's son Hugh is a mystery to me. I know as you mentioned before he was in Glasgow around 1842 and then I think by 1845 or 1846 was residing in Paisley, Renfrewshire if I am to mistaken. Was Hugh married in Glasgow around 1842. I forget to be honest, but you probably know those details already. I think I tried looking for him in the Canadian records. Angus Livingston's brother also had a son named Hugh who settled in Canada, but I am not sure what became of Hugh. Perhaps I shall try and find him once again.


If you study all of the Livingstons that lived in Western Argyllshire in 1841 and then compare the numbers in the 1851 and 1861 Census it is interesting but when you compare the numbers in the some of the parishes in 1841 with those listed in the 1881 Census in many of the parishes the significant decrease in the number of Livingston families is quite apparent. Whether migration to the lowlands or emigration to Canada, the United States and Australia our Western Argyllshire Livingstons for the most part found themselves better off than before, though they no doubt felt some regret at leaving the land of their ancestors.

The 1779 Argyll Tenants lists speaks of Neil Livingston of Shebach, Ross of Mull having 4 daughters names not listed in addition to a son Angus and a son Donald. Donald of "Siaba" according to his children's early 1800's baptism records is a son Neil Livingston. I wonder what happened to them and who they married?

regards,

Donald
jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Neil Livingston and sons Angus and Donald Shiaba Rossof

Post by jmlivingstone »

Donald Livingstone family/descendants



Jean Livingstone

Jean Livingstone chr. 03 July 1807 K&K, d. 18 Aug.1872 Deargphort, K&K.

Parents. Donald Livingstone & Christina Campbell

Spouse Wm. Vass chr. 26 Mar. 1816, Logie, Easter Ross & Cromarty (Wm. Married x 3).

Family.

1. Donald, b.abt. 1842 Assapol, K&K, d. 04 Feb 1912 Dalintort Hospital, Oban

2. William, b.abt. 1843 Assapol, d. 01 Mar. 1879 Tormore, K&K.

3. Alexander, b.abt. 1845 Assapol.

4. John, b.abt. 1847, Assapol, d.14 Dec. 1918 Oban.

5. Christina, b.abt. 1848, Assapol, d. 24 Mar. 1894 Creich, K&K.

6. Mary, b.abt. 1851 Assapol.



John Livingstone.

b. 06 Dec 1814 Assapol, d. 01 May 1883 Glenelg Twp., Ont.

Parents. Donald Livingstone & Christina Campbell.

Wife. Catherine Campbell, chr. 23 June 1814 K&K, d. aft. 1881 Glenelg Twp.

Family.

1. Elizabeth (Betty), chr. 27 Nov. 1838.

2. Marion (Sarah), chr. 07 May 1841, d. 05 Feb. 1915 Priceville, Glenelg Twp.

3. Neil b.abt. 1843 K&K.

4. Elizabeth b.abt. 1845 K&K.

5. Christina b. 12 Apr. 1852 Ontario, d. 13 May 1901 Grey Co.

6. Alexander b. 1854 Ontario.

7. John b.abt. 1856 Ontario.

John
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Neil Livingston and sons Angus and Donald Shiaba Rossof

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,

WE are fortunate to now have a better understanding of the families of the two known sons of Neil Livingston of Shiaba, Ross of Mull, Donald and Angus Livingston because of the dedicated efforts of Dawn Livingston and yourself.

Do you know about the Tartan in Edinburgh this August? I understand that the Chief, the Clan Commissioner and other Livingstons including some from our DNA project group will be there.


regards,

Donald
jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Neil Livingston and sons Angus and Donald Shiaba Rossof

Post by jmlivingstone »

Jean Livingstone & Wm. Vass Family.

Son 1.
Donald, b.abt. 1842 Assapol. D. 04 Feb 1912 Oban.

Wife 1; Jessie Mathieson b. 03 June 1868, Buittle, Kirkcudbrightshire. m. 10 Dec. 1867 Buittle.

Family; Jane b. 03 Feb 1868, Buittle.
Jessie b. 19 Feb. 1871. d. 09 Mar. 1871.

Wife 2; Margaret McDonald b. 07 Dec.1856 Iona, d. 14 Mar. 1920 Lochgilphead, m. 02 Sept. 1880 Kintra, K&K.

Family.

1. John b. 31 Dec. 1880 Creich.

2. William b. 24 Sept. 1882 Deargphort.

3. Donald b. 04 Jan. 1886 Oban.

4. Margaret b. 27 Jan. 1888 Oban.

5. Hugh b. 26 Nov. 1890 Oban.

6. Alexander b. 22 June 1892 Oban.

7. Ann b. 20 Oct. 1896.

Son 2. B.abt. 1843 Assapol, d. 01 Mar. 1879 Tormore. m. 11 June 1868.

Wife Flora McKinnon b.abt. 1846 K&K, d. 10 May 1886 Tormore.

Family;

1. William b. 31 May 1869 Tormore.

2. Catherine b. 10 Apr. 1871 Tormore.

3. Alexander b. 17 Sept. 1873 Iona, d. 16 May 1944 Oban.
m. Mary Jane Routledge 1918.

4. Jane Livingstone b. 16 Oct. 1877 Tormore, d. 22 Feb. 1878 Tormore.

John.
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