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Re: New member questions family search

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:36 pm

Hi Yvonne,

No doubt about it a genetic distance of 1 at 111 is as about as good as it gets with the familytreedna Y chromosome test and is the closest match I've seen amongst Livingston matches not Father and son or Uncle or Nephew, with George's predominately Western Argyll Livingston DNA group. 111 markers is highest Y chromosome test upgrade and the most markers that my Livingston and few of the other Livingstons in the group of about 25 Livingstons has been tested. Only two have not done the 67 marker test and with several Livingstones having upgraded to the 111 marker test in the past few years, it has been helpful particularly in the case of the Morvern matches. There is only one Livingston of Morvern ancestry who has not done the 111 marker test and we have heard from them for several years unfortunately. In a situation like that of these Morvern matches, four of them actually prior to George's test, after Stephen took the test and decided he wanted 111 rather than 67 for starters, I made certain that Lloyd and his 67-1 match Sandy was upgraded to 111. I really wanted to know how closely related with the more precise 111 marker test, my cousin Lloyd was with his closest Morvern match Sandy apparently descended from John Livingston of Killudine, MOrvern and then see how close cousin Lloyd and his closest MOrvern match Sandy (John Alexander) was with Stephen who was 67-3 and 111-4. Turned out Sandy was one genetic step closer I think it was to Stephen than cousin Lloyd. Sandy was 67-2 and 111-3 compared to Stephen descended from a Livingston from Achabegg next to Savary and before that to a Livingston in the 18th century that lived at Savary, MOrvern. I have to think then at 111-1 you 18th century Livingston ancestors before they lived at Inverness must have at one time been kin to the family of Stephen's 4th great-grandfather? Ewen Livingston of Savary and his brother the famous Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary, MOrvern

Tell George we very much appreciate him doing the 111 marker test because it just helps to further and more precisely define our little Morvern group most of whom have now done the 111 test. When you said that George would be tested I was pretty confident he would quite likely be a match with this group which before George, included 4 Livingstons of documented Morvern origins, several lIvingstons of neighbouring Mull origin not as close as match with the Morvern sub group in the group but matching relatively closely with them and one with neighbouring Ardnamurchan ancestry and one with Ballachulish parish ancestry all in the Western Argyllshire. We also have some Perthshire Livingstone matches, Perthshire being the neighbouring County to Argyllshire, but to me there relative close match with the Mull Livingtons in our group and this group in general suggests to me their earlier origins of their ancestors earlier in the 18th century and before that was probably a parish in Western Argyllshire perhaps Mull. I really however did not suspect George would be another likely Morvern match with our little but growing Morvern sub group let alone a rare 111-1 match. So I am just about as thrilled about this result as you and George are no doubt. We are really zeroing in with these 4 Livingstons of Morvern ancestry I would assume the descendants of four Livingston families whom lived in the several tenant settlements along the west coastline of Morvern Parish with Mull in the distance just across the water from them. With so many people in this group having taken the 67 marker test it just makes sense for them to consider upgrading to this 111 marker test in the future if as many do have some relatively close or happen to have particularly close matches as in the case of George and your new Livingston cousin Stephen.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2532
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby ybl » Thu May 03, 2018 7:09 pm

Morning Donald,

So in trying to move forward, could you help me with a sense of what the family tree we might belong to looks like and how would I access that information. So if we were on the tree for John Livingston and Ann Mcinnes where would I get the information from to build a skeleton tree for us? I know we can't get exact but I would love to look at a proposed family tree.

Knowing that Angus,my 3rd great grandfather's first son was named Donald and only daughter named Catherine, might let me see a pattern that I could explore.

thank you
Yvonne
ybl
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:21 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat May 05, 2018 1:56 pm

Hi Yvonne,
This will be a long answer to your question but I think I can give you some general idea of how your brother and you are probably connected to the old Savary Morvern Livingstone family. As far as a detailed family tree or taking it a detailed sense beyond your most distant known Inverness-shire Livingston is not possible but my hunch from extremely close 111-1 match with a Livingston of documented Savary, Morvern ancestry is that somehow your family Inverness-shire family branch connected earlier in the John Livingstone 1700-1759 of Savary, Morvern and his wife Anne Mcinnes whose highland table tomb can be found in Keil Cemetery near Lochaline MOrvern where the old Savary Maclea-Livingstones were buried. Your Husband's closest match at 111-1 is a direct descendant of this Ewen (Hugh)Livingston their son born in the 1720's or 1730's likely in Savary, Morvern. Our Mclea (Mconlea) Morvern ancestor by the 1750's changed their name as did other Western Argyllshire Mcleas (Mconlea) to Livingstone as the Clan Chief's family on the neighbouring Island of Lismore did and a rare earlier 1716 List of Morvern residents indicates that our Morvern Mcleas (Mconleas) were living by this point in several settlements including Savary along the west coast of Morvern Parish. So I think that verifies the information from some of Stephen's Ohio and New York State, Morvern Livingston kin that our Morvern Mconleas ancestors arrived in Morvern more than a century earlier in 1600 or thereabout from Achnacree also in Argyllshire. So while I don't have precise names of your brother and your livingston ancient kin linking those Livingtons to earlier McLea (McOnlea)Livingstone ancestors that lived in Morvern Parish in Western Argyll I am pretty certain the close test results with Stephen indicates the unknown father perhaps of your brother and your most distant ancestor likely was closely related I am suspecting to Stephen's ancestor Ewen Livington born in the 1720's or 1730's probably and I think for certain related to Ewen and his brother Donald's father John Livingstone 1700-1759 and his wife Anne McInnes of Savary, Morvern.

The Y Chromosome Test is indicating who your brother's closest Livingston matches are and in the case of his results it is first of all clear that he is genetic match with a group of Livingstons of Western Argyll origin. So far in the last 10 years or more of familytreedna tests about 25 Livingstons, Parker and a Campbell who likely are of Livingston ancestry and other families with some apparently more ancient connection to this group of Maclea Livingstones of Western Argyll Livingstone ancestral origin. The second thing I know for certain is that this Livingstone Y DNA match group can be further broken down into Livingstones of Mull ancestral origins, 4 with neighbouring Morvern Parish origins, one with neighbouring Ardnamurchan connection, one with Ballachulish origin etc. Your brother's Livingstone ancestral information like most Livingstons in the group those who are lucky enough to know who their 19th century Livingstone ancestors were in Scotland, indicates who their Livingstone ancestors were in the early 1800's or in some cases in the late 1700's and where they lived at that time but unfortunately in most cases due to the limits of the records in Scotland like in your brother's case they don't know where they lived or who their relatives were in earlier 1700's. Some Livingstones remained for generations in one parish likely but others migrated to other neighbouring Western Argyll parishes. In the case of your brother's results very close matches with a Livingstons of Achabegg Farm and earlier of neighbouring Savary, Morvern Livingston ancestry in Western Argyll leaves little doubt that your brother's and your Inverness-shire Livingston family almost certainly in the 1700's residing in neighbouring Western Argyllshire and almost certainly was related to the old Maclea Livingstones that resided at Savary, MOrvern.

The Y Chromosome test then has proven what I suspected that your brother's highland Inverness-shire Livingston family originally lived in the 18th century in Western Argyll and more specifically almost certainly in Morvern Parish and thirdly is so closely matched with a Livingston in his match group that is Achbegg/Savary, Morvern ancestry that in my opinion there is very good chance your brother and you have some ancestral connection in the 1700's with Stephen Livingston's ancestor Ewen Livingston of Savary and his brother, the famous Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern. Donald joined the Jacobite Appin Regiment of the Appin, Argyll Stewarts at the age of 18 during the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745 and at the Battle of Culloden where Bonnie Prince Charlie's Jacobite forces were defeated, rescued the fallen banner of his Appin Regiment, and safely made his from the battle field back to Argyllshire where he returned the banner to the Stewarts. In later years Donald who married Jane (Jean) Stewart was a cattle drover, miller and inn keeper at Savary were he lived to be a very old man. In answer to your question I cannot provide you regrettably with a family tree linking your brother's 18th century Livingston with those of closest match a direct descendant of this Donald LIvingstone's brother Ewen (Hugh) Livingstone of Savary, Morvern. All I am pretty certain about is that your husband is the closest match so far with Stephen who is an amazing 111-1 with your brother and because of that it has given me some insight into the fact that your husband obviously is of a family connected to Stephen's ancestor Ewen Livingston of Savary, Morvern and his famous Savary, MOrvern brother Donald Livingstone 1728-1816. Ewen and Donald's parents were John Livingstone b. abt. 1700 and Anna McInnes of Savary, Morvern and they are buried in Keil Cemetery near Lochaline in MOrvern. I have no doubt that your brother's earliest known ancestors would be John Livingstone and Anna McInnes of Savary, MOrvern. Before that all that I know is that according to Stephen 19th century Morvern Livingstone relatives that settled in the 1840's in New York State and Ohio, the story from the Morvern Livingstone old-timers who knew old Donald Livingstone at Savary in their youth was that their Maclea Livingstone ancestor arrived in Morvern Parish around the year 1600 from Achnacree, Argyll. Your oldest ancestor however that we know of would be John Livingstone and his wife Anna McInnes whose highland table tomb was erected by their famous Jacobite son Donald Livingstone about 1759 or 1760 at Keil Cemetery. It is still in pretty good shape considering its age and if you and your brother ever make a trip to Western Argyll you should check it out.

More to follow.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2532
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby ybl » Sat May 05, 2018 2:48 pm

Thank you Donald. George is my brother though not husband.

I appreciate yout information and time.

Yvonne
ybl
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:21 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun May 06, 2018 2:29 am

HI Yvonne,

Sorry about that. I made the corrections to my last message taking that into account. In that case both your brother and you are also distant cousins of mine as well through another Morvern Livingston ancestral connection indicated by the DNA project with a third cousin of mine a Livingston. Though not as quite as close a match as Stephen is, but one of other relatively close Morvern Livingston matches none the less. There must among each of our Livingston family branches I am pretty certain a Maclea (Mconlea) Livingstone connection in the 18th century with this John Livingstone 1700-1759 and his wife Anne Mcinnes of Savary, Morvern who are buried at Keil Cemetery near Lochaline, Morvern. Stephen your brother's closest match is descended from a son Ewen (Hugh) Livingston born in the 1720's or 1730's, of this John Livingston and Ann McInnes. One of the big Morvern Parish family research stumbling block is that the Morvern Church of Scotland Parish records before 1803 are lost so I have only very limited information on Livingston families in Morvern Parish prior to that point in time. And not enough to be able to successfully detail your family line in the 1700's and any connection they may have had with Morvern Parish. I do believe though that the very close DNA results with Stephen and with some other Livingstons of known Morvern ancestry suggests that earlier in the 1700's your Livingston family resided in Morvern, Argyll before moving on to Inverness-shire near the Argyllshire border.

Your brother's very very close match with Stephen and other close matches with Morvern Livington's tells us I think firstly that your brother is descended from a highland Maclea Livingstone of Western Argyllshire origin and lived in Argyllshire probably in the 1700's prior to neighbouring Inverness-shire, secondly that he is of Morvern Livingston ancestry and thirdly that with the degree of close matching with Stephen 111-1 or only 1 marker difference with 111 tested compared to Stephen's results your brother and you must be of a Maclea (McOnlea) LIvingtone family line of Morvern origin closely related to the old Savary, Morvern Livingstone family of John Livingstone 1700-1759 and Anne McInnes which Stephen is also connected with through their son Ewen (Hugh) Livingstone of Savary, Morvern brother of the famous Morvern Jacobite hero of the 1745 Rebellion, Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern

regards,

Donald

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2532
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

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