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Re: New member questions family search

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:34 am

Hi Yvonne,

Familytreedna will e-mail contact you or your brother by e-mail letting you know that the Y chromosome test results are now available and importantly give you a password so that you or your brother can access the Y chromosome test matches page from their website which will show you a list of those people worldwide who are your brother's closest matches with 37, 67 or 111 markers tested depending on how many markers that were tested. It may take several weeks before familytreedna contacts you or your brother with the test results. The DNA testing of Livingstons over the last 10 years with familytreedna has shown I think that there were a number of family groups in Scotland that went by the name Livingston. In terms of those with documented roots in more recent 18th and 19th Western Argyllshire, they seem to be mostly matching with three Livingston DNA groups I have noticed and so my hunch is that your brother may be a match with one of them.
regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2552
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:04 pm

Hi Yvonne,

If you and George have any questions regarding the results let me know. I took a look yesterday at my cousin Lloyd's results and George is very close match with the Livingston group he matches with made up of LIvingstons descended from Livngstons of Mull, Morvern, Ardnamurchan, Ballachulish area of Western Argyllshire and some that lived in neighbouring Perthshire. His results prove he is match with these Livingstons of Western Argyllshire origin and it looks to me like his closest matches with this Livingston DNA group include my cousin Lloyd and three other LIvingstons with Morvern Parish ancestry. This does not surprise me as I expected that Livingstons resided in near the Argyllshire/Inverness-shire originated from an older Maclea Livingstone family that at one time lived elsewhere in Western Argyllshire earlier. Before they lived near Fort William Inverness-shire I am pretty certain from the test results your Livingston ancestors and George's may have lived in the Morvern Parish area where Lloyd's and my Maclean-Livingston ancestor lived in the 1700's according to our Livingston ancestor's marriage record. As close a match my cousin is to George, some of the other Livingstons with Morvern ancestry seem to be closer related. As you have no family history records connecting you to Morvern Parish, Argyll we can't really back this up with documentation, but the DNA results do I think indicate the likelihood of some possible undocumented ancestral connection with a familiy of Maclea/Livingstons that lived in the MOrvern Parish area in the 1700's. I noticed John Alexander Livingston is even closer match to George than my Livingston cousin.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2552
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby ybl » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:52 pm

Good Morning Donald,

My first questions would be, is there a next step that we should consider? If George took a more advanced test, would it narrow down a bit?

Do the participants with matches often communicate or share information that might help link up families?

Any suggestions you have would be appreciated, Donald.

Thank you
Yvonne
ybl
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:21 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:48 pm

Hi Yvonne,

George as I suspected is a match with a predominate Western Argyll DNA group that now has about 26 Livingstons matching with this group which is referred to as the Parker Livingstone Group. Many of matches seem to be of Mull, Morvern, Ardnamurchan and other neighbouring parishes in Western Argyll. In 2009 I sponsored a 3rd cousin Lloyd V. Livingston in DNA project and he like George was a match with this highland Argyllshire Livingston Parker Livingston DNA group. Lloyd's closest matches were 4 Livingstons with Morvern Livingston ancestry. As my Livingston ancestor and Lloyd's ancestor was a native of MOrvern, Argyll who settled in British North America in 1812, the DNA testing and the matching with 3 other Livingstons with documented Morvern ancestry verified I think that my ancestor was a native of Morvern as his marriage record stated. I noticed by the way that George is a close match with my cousin Lloyd. I am cousin Lloyd's active contact with the DNA project and my e-mail address is actually included with his info on the matches page with Lloyd's info,if have some questions. According to Lloyd's matches page George is a match of 35 out of 37 markers tested (37 genetic distance of 2). With John Alexander Livingston however Lloyd's closest Livingston match I noticed George is an even closer match at 37-1. He is of Morvern and neighbouring Mull, Argyll ancestry. You will find many of George's matches have Morvern and or neighbouring Mull ancestry in highland Argyll.

Having already done the initial lab test and clearly established that George and your Livingston family are of 100 per cent of Western Argyllshire highland Livingston ancestry and who your matches are, your next best step would be to upgrade to the more exacting 111marker test which will better define who George's closest Livingston matches most definitely are. I believe that will give you the 67 marker results as well.

You will notice that with each of George's matches most of the George's matches also include their e-mail addresses as a means to contact matching Livingstons that are listed.
regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2552
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:04 am

Hi Yvonne,
Could these be George's closest matches with 37 markers tested
I have not seen George's results but the closest Livington matches will possibly be (educated guess here)
1. Stephen S. L. 37-1 ? (Morvern, Argyll ancestry)
2. John Alexander L. 37-1 (Morvern Argyll ancestry but Morvern ancestor married in Mull to a Mull Campbell lady lived mostly in neighbouring mull before leaving Scotland)
3. Lloyd V. L. 37-1 ( My third cousin whom I sponsored) Morvern Livingston ancestry
I have been contact with these Livingstons over the years and worked with them on their research.
If this is correct this is why I am thinking your Maclea/ Livingston ancestors were from Morvern Parish, Argyll before they lived near the Inverness-shire/Argyllshire border area and Fort William.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2552
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:07 pm

Hi Yvonne,

Ok I just got word from Stephen that George is his closest match from latest matches info 37-0 so there is a good chance that Stephen is George's closest Livingston match or one of the closest I would think for sure. That is key because Stephen is our direct descendant of the old Savary, Morvern Maclea Livingston family through his ancestor Ewen (Hugh) LIvingston of Savary, Morvern brother of the famous Morvern hero of the 1745 Jacobite Rebellion Donald Livingstone (1728-1816) of Savary, Morvern. Ewen's brother served a young man in the Appin Regiment which part of Bonnie Prince Charlie's army. Ewen's brother Donald was at the Battle of Culloden with the Appin Regiment in April of 1746 when Bonnie Prince Charlie and his forces were defeated. I suspect that George's closest three or four matches include a Stephen Livingston, John Alexander Livingston and my cousin Lloyd V. Livingston possibly at the 37 marker level. Stephen's results with George at 37-0 suggest it possible that he will have 67 marker match that is also close and definitely worth doing the 67 or 111 marker test upgrade with familytreedna.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2552
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby ybl » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:09 pm

Morning Donald,

What fascinating news. I will get with George and will follow up with the DNA 111 test today.

thank you for forwarding this information to me.


Best
Yvonne
ybl
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:21 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby ybl » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:52 pm

Good Morning Donald,

I just checked the Familytreedna sight and they have posted the 111 results for George. It reflects that Stephen and George are a genetic distance of 1 I think if I am reading this correctly?

Just hoping you can shed some light on the results for me.

thank you
Yvonne
ybl
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:21 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:28 pm

HI Yvonne,

111-1 is a very close match indeed. Probably the closest match we could have expected with you brother's match not being his Father or brother. In that case it would have 111-0 or a perfect match. My Livingston cousin closest match is 111-2 by comparison and the match like my Livingston both of whom I sponsored in the DNA project some years ago are both of documented Morvern origin and the Close DNA results confirm their similar Morvern, Argyll ancestry.

So you first of all you have a very close match with Stephen who is a descendant of Hugh Livingston and Euphemia Campbell of Achabegg, Morvern near Savary, Morvern. We did not have an idea of how your family living near the Inverness/Argylshire border were connected to families connected to your likely original Western Argyllshire parish ancestors where I was pretty certain your Inverness-shire family lived at before Inverness-shire. The DNA test results I believe confirm that your Maconlea/Livingston ancestors originated not only in Western Argyllshire but with a close match Stephen and my Livingston cousins closest Morvern Livingston matches I am pretty confident you and your brothers Livingston family is of Morvern Livingston ancestry and whats more somehow related to Stephen's Morvern Livingston family group which includes his ancestor Hugh Livingston's ancestor Ewen (Hugh) Livingston of Savary and his famous Savary, Morvern brother Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary Morvern who as a 18 year old joined the Appin Regiment during the 1745 Rebellion as Jacobite soldier with Bonnie Prince's Jacobite army and was present at the Battle of Culloden of April 1746 when Bonnie Prince Charlies forces were defeated by those of the Duke of Cumberland. Young Donald became a legend in Morvern as he fled the battlefield with the Appin Regimental wrapped around him as the last Appin Regiment standard bearer fell to onslaught of cannon fire or musket fire.

I had my cousin Lloyd I had tested several years ago and he is also a close match with your brother and his ancestry is of a Morvern Livingston Miles Livingston who with his wife Jennette Livingston also a Morvern Livingston, left Argyllshire in 1812 as he was hired as boatbuilder for Lord Selkirks Colony in Red River in British North America along with a Donald Livingston whom I most recently believe may have been Miles Livington's brother-in-law. I am not familiar with all your brothers closest results at 67 or 111 but here is my cousins closest apparent Morvern Livingston matches.

Lloyd's closest matches at 111
111-2 John Alexander (Sandy) (likely descended from John Livingston born in the 1770's of Killundine, Morvern and Cataharine Campbell of Teung, Mull, Argyll
111-3 George
111-4 Stephen descended from Ewen Livingston of Savary, Morvern brother of Donald Livingstone (Domhnull Mollach of Savary, Morvern veteran of the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745 and local Morvern hero of the Battle of Culloden of April 1746 where he retrieved the banner of his Appin Regiment and returned it to the Appin Stewarts upon his return to Argyllshire while a Jacobite fugitive in hiding from the British.

My Livingston cousin is closest match actually to Sandy who I traced to a Kilundine,Morvern livingston who married a Campbell from Mull and lived mostly in Mull after their 1805. it was only when read the fine print of their 1805 marriage and checked the birth record of their first child that I realized Sandy's ancestor was actually a Morvern Parish Livingston and not a Mull Livingston as Sandy and his relatives had originally thought. The DNA test and matches with my cousin and Stephen and a couple of other Movern Livignstons who have only done the 67 marker test confirms this I believe to be the case. As it turns out with George's most recent you and George are distant Livingston relative of ours and closer related to Stephen and his Savary, Morvern Livingston ancestral line I assume in some way. There are no Morvern Parish records before the year 1803 so there is really no way to determine precisely how your family is related to Stephen and the Savary Morvern family group. Given that you and George are so closely matched to Stephen it does not surprise me that George is a close match with my Livingston cousin Lloyd a match with him with genetic distance of 3 with 111 markers tested. A pretty close match when you consider that 111 markers in total the maximum number that can be tested with familytree were tested. So my 3rd Cousin Lloyd whom I have never met but have been working with his daughter on family research over the years, is a relatively close match with George but Stephen is a much closer match and leaves little doubt which Movern Livingston settlement family your Livingtons must have closely connected to. All the Morvern Livingston tested so far were a match with your brother's DNA group so it is virtually certain that most Morvern lIvingstons were related one way or another and the 111 test seems to be giving us the ability to further differentiate the different Livingston families that lived at Savary, Killiundine and perhaps in time other Morvern tenant settlements along the west coast of Morvern. The Livingstons of neighbouring Movern according the testing of their descendant are also for the most part with only one exception so far also related to this DNA group though interestingly not a close a match last 67 and 111 markers tested reveals.

So the big news from this test is that you and George as you likely suspects are descended from the predominate western Argyll Maclea/Livngston family group and match with their DNA group. George's closest match and other close matches are connected to Livignstons that lived in the 1800's and since about 1600 in Morvern, Argyl and in Savary, MOrvern in particular. Your shared ancestors or close in with Stepeh were likely John Livingston and Ann Mcinnes who are buried in an ornate highland table tomb at keil Cemetery in MOrvern erected by their son Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern. I will post the interesting photo of that grave later on. You are somehow likely related to Donald and his brother Ewen's father's family or perhaps Donald and Ewen's family but impossible to come with exact relationship or precise details of the family connection. But I am pretty certain about what I am saying here.


These then are my Cousin Lloyd's closest Morvern Livingston matches just for you to compare with Georges. How close is my third cousin Lloyd to George in terms genetic match at 111 and 67 marker level. Just curious. George very interestingly seems to a little closer related to my cousin Lloyd at 111-3 than Stephen at 111-4, but not as as Sandy.

Lloyd's Movern Livingston Matches

37-1 67-1 111-2 John Alexander (Sandy)
37-2 67-2 111-3 George
37-2 67-3 111-4 Stephen
Could you compare John Alexander (Sandy) Livingston' match and my cousin Lloyd's matches with George and let me know how close a match at 111 and 67 markers they are?
So it turns out you and your brother and my Livingston cousin and I share Morvern Livingston ancestry. I suspected your brother;s results would suggest your Livingstons originated in one of the parishes in Western Argyllshire itself rather than Invernesshire, but it was interesting that the result indicate you are close match with Stephen connected to the old Savary, MOrvern Livingston family with the 18th century Ewen and Donald LIvingnstone connection. Ewen being Stephen's ancestor. I have been touch with a documented descendant of old Donald Livingstone 1728-1816, EWen's brother but he is not involved in this DNA project.
regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2552
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: New member questions family search

Postby ybl » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:15 pm

Hi Donald,

Thank you so much. This is really interesting and welcome news! I am really excited that we have a starting place with the dna.

Lloyd with George is at 111-3 and at 67-2.
Sandy with George is at 111-3 and 67-1.

So, we can accurately and safely state that we are most likely from Morvern Livingstone ancestry then.

Again, thank you for all the information you sent on. I am going to let the rest of the Livingstone's in Scotland and Canada know...I have lots of Livingstone cousins living in both places.

Yvonne
ybl
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:21 pm

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