Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wives!

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Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wives!

Postby LHughes33 » Wed May 23, 2018 2:29 pm

I've been tracing my Livingston ancestors on and off for years and previously picked up some good advice and hints on this site - thank you.

Through my research I have found that Solomon Livingston born around 1819 to Donald Livingston and Agnes Stevenson was married not twice, as noted in his death record, but THREE times.

This is just a recent discovery, and previously I only had details of his wives named Catherine McLachlan, who he married in Argyllshire on 9 Feb 1845, and my 3rd great grandmother Euphemia Murray, who he married on 12 Nov 1854 after Catherine had died (he had 3 children by this point – Solomon, Agnes and Margaret). I am descended from Solomon and Euphemia’s son Donald, who was born in Malta Street in Glasgow on 21 Jan 1858.

I had always wondered who the ‘Mrs Livingston’ born about 1821 was with Solomon Livingston in his 1841 Census record. It wasn’t his mother, as she is listed separately at the same address, and he wasn’t married to Catherine at the time.

It wasn’t until I started researching Solomon’s first child, also called Solomon Livingston, that I realised this son’s mother was not Catherine after all. I can find no birth record for this younger Solomon, but know that he is the son of my 3rd great grandfather Solomon because he appears in 1851 with him, aged 7 years old. I recently accessed this younger Solomon’s death record, and he died at 21 in Glasgow and was a Tailor like his father. Crucially, his parents are listed in his death record as Solomon Livingston and MARGARET MCNICOL [incorrectly indexed on ScotlandsPeople as ‘MARY MCNICOL’ but it’s clear that her name is Margaret within the record].

Another indicator that this younger Solomon is not the child of Solomon and Catherine, is that I have been able to find birth records for Catherine’s children to Solomon, Agnes born in 1847 and Margaret in 1850, and in Margaret’s record she is noted as the 2ND CHILD of the couple.

On checking for a marriage record, I found that Solomon Livingston, Tailor in Glasgow, DID marry a Margaret McNicol on 11 Dec 1840 in Glasgow. I think she must have died shortly after their son Solomon was born.

My final piece of evidence for this 3-wife theory, is that the signature of the Solomon Livingston who signed son Solomon’s death record (the record that states that the mother of the deceased is Margaret McNicol) is the same as my 3rd great grandfather Solomon Livingston’s signature on my 2nd great grandfather Donald Livingston’s birth record (and previous child Elizabeth). All were statutory records, including Solomon’s own hand, as he could read and write.

I have a private tree on Ancestry.com with links to all the records referenced above. If anyone would like to see it, just send me a message and I’ll organise access. I’ve taken the Ancestry DNA test and have already linked with some Livingston cousins, but would love to meet more and share further information. I’m on GEDMatch too – kit number A076542.

Cheers
Laura
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Re: Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wiv

Postby Greg Livingston » Thu May 24, 2018 3:26 am

First, Laura, welcome to the Clan MacLea (Livingstone) forum! I'm sure you will find some very interesting bits of our ancestors here.

I know that Donald (Livingstone) Clink, our clan historian, will be replying soon and will also look into this.

Again, welcome to the forum!
Greg Livingston
Clan Commissioner
Northglenn, Colorado, USA
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Re: Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wiv

Postby LHughes33 » Thu May 24, 2018 2:57 pm

Thanks very much Greg for the warm welcome.

I also know that some of my Livingston family went to Whitby in Canada and some moved to Michigan and I'd love to learn more about them. Also just found that one of my great uncles, George Murray Livingston, was Killed in Action in France in 1917.

I'm from Scotland and work in Glasgow. Fascinating to walk the streets where my Livingston ancestors once lived and worked.

Laura
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Re: Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wiv

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri May 25, 2018 4:39 pm

Hi Laura,
Welcome back to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum. Nice to hear from you again and I was most interested to learn about the progress you have made regarding old Solomon Livingston. With a name like Solomon your ancestor must been a very wise man. I had noticed last night that there had been at least two wives but a third would not surprise me given the high mortality rate in those times from various diseases, epidemics etc and generally poor sanitation. Regrettably, our former Clan Secretary, Jill Richardson passed away a few years ago. She would have been particularly interested in your Livingston family research. She was descended from Western Argyllshire Maclea Livingstons that lived at one time on the Isle of Luing. Jill had done some research on her own Livingston families connection to Luing and she and one other Livingston with roots to the Slate Islands got me interested in learning more about the the Maclea/Livingstons of Luing and neighbouring Easdale, two of the Slate Islands of Western Argyllshire. The Luing info that Jill passed on to me confirmed what we had suspected that in the first half of the 18th century there were Western Argyllshire Macleas ( McOnleas) residing on the Isle of Luing, likely slate workers who like other Western Argyllshire Macleas (Mconleas) changed their family name to Livingstone/Livingston as other Macleas(Mconleas) families elsewhere in Kilchattan and Kilbrandon and other parishes throughout Western Argyllshire did, apparently as a Clan group in the 1750's. There are a number of interesting theories as to why apparently at this time all the Mcleas (McOnleas) residing throughout Western Argyllshire adopted as a unified Clan the more english sounding family name of an old lowland, Stirlingshire, aristocratic family the Livingstons connected for centuries to the Scottish Stuart royal family, but by the early 1700's having been deprived of it's title's as supporters of a failed Jacobite rebellion of 1715, preceding that of 1745.

The Scottish Census info that we may have discussed in earlier messages on the Forum, proved to be very helpful in establishing that not only that your ancestor Solomon Livingston was born in Kilchattan and Kilbrandon parish in Western Argyllshire but also in one instance mentioned that he was born on the Isle of Luing. The 1841 Scottish Census indicates as you probably by now know, that most of the Maclea Livingstones in the 1700's and early 1800's resided at Cullipool where the local slate quarry was apparently located employing some Livingstons. In addition also some Maclea/Livingston families residing at Tobernochy. Based on the census info I would think it likely your ancestor Solomon Livingston was related some of these families that resided at Cullipool and Tobernochy in 1841 and prior to that. If Solomon's 19th century Scottish census is correct and I every reason to believe it probably is then it does seem very likely he could related to some of the Maclea Livingston slate worker families that we see in the 1841 census info on the Isle of Luing.

My wife and I around Christmas time last year did the ancestry.com test that gives you a basic idea in percentage terms of your ethnic origins. I was 38 percent Irish, 35 percent British and about 25 percent Western European presumingly from my 18th century German and 17th century Swedish and Dutch colonial ancestors. The predominate Irish is interesting given that I have no recent family connection to old Irish families but rather Scotch Irish, but it is very possible I have some ancient Celtic Irish blood from the fact that I am descended from two Morvern Western Argyll Livingstons who married in the early 1800's before boarding at ship sailing to British North America. As best we can figure it out so far, it looks like my Maclea Livingston ancestors were celts from the ancient Celtic Kingdom of Dalriada in the North of Ireland who eventually colonized nearby Argyllshire, Scotland long ago. That might explain why ancestry.com's test picked up to some degree some Celtic blood in me.

A lot of Livingstones/Livingstones in recent years have done the male Y Chromosome Test from familytreedna and there has been a great many Livingstons tested. In 2006 I had my Livingston 3rd cousin tested. It tests and analyses the male Y Chromosome.
If you can find a male Livingstone cousin either closely or more distantly connected to your Livingston family that originated from the Isle of Luing, you may be able to get them to do familytreedna Y chromosome test which is the one which our Clan group has been very much involved in for more than 10 years now. It tests and analyses the male Y chromosome which all male Livingstones will have and then compares the genetic marker by marker results with a large group of other Livingston world wide. Regarding the Western Argyllshire LIvingstons much has been learned from these tests and a couple of Livingstone family groups with documented connections to Western Argyllshire have been matched up through this test. Livingston's from Lismore, neighbouring Appin, Balachulish, Morvern, neighbouring Mull, neighbouring Colonsay, neighbouring Ardnamurchan in Argyllshire for example.

Jill was I think unable to find a Livingston relative with roots to the Isle of Luing before she passed away a few years ago now, but I am hoping that given the great progress we have made with this Y Chromosome DNA project regarding the testing of Livingtons descended from 18th and 19th century Lismore, Appin, MOvern, Mull Ardnamurchan Livingstones/Livingstons that we someday find a Livingston of Isle of LUing ancestry who be willing to participate in our Y Chromosome DNA project.

In my case I am descended from a daughter of a Morvern, Argyllshire Livingston boat builder who married father's great-grandfather and can not provide Livingston DNA, however I was able to contact a Livingston family researcher who is a 3rd cousin of mine and her Livington Father kindly agreed to do the familytreedna Y Chromome test. Given that we have some progress identifying the apparent connection amongst these Livingstons of known Western Argyllshire origin, any help you could give locating a Livingston cousin in Scotlan or elsewhere to do the familytreedna Y Chromosome test would be most greatly appreciated. Though not a DNA expert myself I can show some clear ancient and not so ancient family linkages amongst the Livingstons of documented Western Argyllshire origin so far tested.

If you don't know any recent Livingston cousins of Luing ancestry, there is always a chance if I post some Luing Livingston info in a post here that eventually find some Livingstons out there of Luing ancestry who might be interested in this Y chromosome familytreedna test that Livingstons world wide and our own Clan group and Clan Society has been involved with over the last ten years. I am fairly certain what the results will be probably be of a Y chromosome test on Livingston with Luing ancestry but it would be interesting to see what the results actually are and just as importantly how closely related the Luing Livingston families are to Livingstons of neighbouring parish ancestry who have already done the Y Chromosome test with familytreedna which are Clan group has worked with more than 10 years with our DNA project.

I don't recall if I had mentioned this book to you in the past, but if you are looking for a excellent book on the history of the Isle of Luing and the other Slate Islands in Western Argyllshire there is a book by Mary Withall, "Easdale, Belnahua, Luing and Seil:The Islands that Roofed the World", that can give some interesting information regarding the history of these Islands and the slate quarrying industry there which your own Livingston kin and their relatives may have been involved in at some point.

You will have to forgive me as I am typing and thinking a bit slower than usual these days. I had a bad fall very recently colliding nose first with a cement sidewalk, but remarkably my nose is not broken or even badly bruised just a bit scraped, head and face came out it with only several stitches to my lip. Lots of scrapes to my face but all healing nicely. Some painfully sore ribs and banged knee but I am still walking however somewhat slowly. I know of an old friend from high school who I had not seen in years, also fell head and face first on a floor a number a years ago now and he did not survive the impact. I have always felt sad about him. The Doctor in emergency was amazed I had no broken bones, all of my teeth and managed not to break my skull. She did a great job with the stitches and her sense of humour kept me calm during the procedure to sow me up. I guess that was my lucky day. Could have turned out a whole lot worse.

Anyways I appear to be back amongst the living or should I say the Livingstons and continuing with the Livingstone genealogy quest here at the forum despite my careless accident.


regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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Re: Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wiv

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri May 25, 2018 10:33 pm

Hi Laura,

In 2011 I sent you this message regarding the Isle of Luing Stevensons and with a final thought that I was unable to find Solomon's father Donald Livingston who was married Agnes Stevenson.

Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:40 pm
. By the time of the 1841 Census ... no trace of Solomon's father Donald Livingston and his wife Agnes Stevenson.


I think however I found Donald Livingston at Cullipool in 1834 earlier today.
In the 1841 Census at Cullipool the elder Livingston men were Neil Livingston b. 1766 a slate worker probably due for retirement and an Archibald Livingston born abt. 1791 also a slate worker at the local quarry at Collipool.Earlier today however I did find a rare 1834 list which included at Cullipool, Neil Livingston, Archibald Livingston and a Donald Livingston likely born before 1800 who does not appear in the subsequent 1841 Census with elder Cullipool residents in 1841. I am not 100 percent certain but this Donald Livingston included in the 1834 list of Livingston head of households at Cullipool could be Solomon's father.

Also in 1834 a Donald Livingston on the Isle of Luing at Ardlarach but most significantly he is included in the 1841 Census and he is married to a woman named Margaret. So that rules out one of the two Donald listed in the earlier rare 1834 list that includes some Isle of Luing Livingstons circa 1834.

More later.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wiv

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat May 26, 2018 2:30 pm

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:37 pm

Livingston slate Quarriers/laborers at Cullipool,Isle of Luing Kilchattan Parish,Argyllshire
1841 Scottish Census Kilbrandon and Kilchattan Parish
Neil Livingston born abt.1766 widower
Hugh Livingston born abt.1816
Archibald Livingston born abt.1791 wife Agnes
John Livingston born abt.1806 wife Betty Cowan?

1851 Scottish Census Kilbrandon and Kilchattan Parish
Colipol (worker cottage) No.8 John Livingston born abt. 1805 Colipool wife Betty


Today Cullipool looks much as it did back then with the worker cottages and the quarry still there.

https://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/ ... index.html



regards,

Donald
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Re: Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wiv

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat May 26, 2018 6:23 pm

Hi Laura,

I agree with your conclusions regarding his three wives and the marriage records for your ancestor Solomon Livingston's marriages clearly support that belief. Solomon's death record only mentions Catharine McLachlan whom he married back in his Kilbrandon and Kilchattan Parish Argyllshire in 1845 and last wife Euphemia Murray who he wed in Glasgow in 1854, but it is clear from the marriage records that he married earlier in 1840 his first wife Margaret McNicol and they had a son Solomon Jr. whom is recorded with his father Solomon and family in the 1851 Census.

1. Solomon Livingston Tailor and Mary (Margaret?) McNichol married 11/12/1840 Glasgow Barony/Lanarkshire

2. Solomon Livingston and Catharine McLachlan Kilbrandon and Kilchattan Parish Argyll m 09/02/1845

3. Solomon Livingston Clothier and Euphemia Murray Barony, Lanarkshire m. 12/11/1854

Did you notice the names of the witnesses of this birth record? Could they be brothers or some other kin of your ancestor Solomon Livingston ?:

Solomon Livingston Tailor of Glasgow and Catharine McLachlan had lawful daughter their second child born 8th Dec. 1850 named Margaret Witnesses: John Livingston and William Livingston

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wiv

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat May 26, 2018 10:25 pm

Hi Laura,

See my other most recent post entitled Donald Livingston of Collipool circa 1834. i think he could be Solomon's father. Also in the 1841 and 1851 census there is a Margaret (Johnston) Stevenson b. abt. 1776 widow at Collipool of a slate worker Archibald Stevenson of Collipool according to her death record. So there was at least one Stevenson family residing at Collipool when the mysterious Donald Livingston of Collipool was residing there. Perhaps his wife was Agnes Stevenson and she was related to this Archibald Livingston slate worker of Collipool who was likely born in the 1770's possibly.

Also found a marriage record for a William Livingston and Barbara Stevenson of Kilchattan Parish m. Oct. 25, 1828.

Perhaps a few clues to add to what you have discovered.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wiv

Postby jmlivingstone » Sun May 27, 2018 11:29 am

Laura/Donald,

The link below may, or may not, take you to a tree on Family Search, sometimes they work, sometimes not.

Do you know anything about a Margaret Brownlee, FS have her as marrying Solomon at Barony, Glasgow on 27 June 1852, so possibly he married four times.
Solomons father is listed as Neil 1790-1851 from Argyll, his mother as Margaret McColl from Argyll.

If the tree is correct, Solomon had 3 sisters & 4 brothers, all born close to Kilmore & Kilbride or Kilninver & Kilmelford, where they appear to have moved between 1810 - 1816.

Unfortunately, it has no info Solomons family, it has been modified by a Christian Crawford Sunderland within the past two years. Possibly someone you could make contact with ?

There could be a few more siblings around, between child 2 & child 3, there is a gap of around 5 -6 years, 1810 - 1816.

The only one recorded as having a family, is an Archibald Smart Livingstone, who moved to Old Kilpatrick & had 8 or 9 children. The tree has a photo of his oldest daughter Mary attached.

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/perso ... s/M1RV-QJC.

Still cannot see anything on Donald Livingstone and/or Agnes Stevenson,

John.
PS. It makes a change to have someone else posting from Scotland, I’m in Greenock.
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Re: Solomon Livingston, born abt 1819 in Argyleshire - 3 wiv

Postby LHughes33 » Wed May 30, 2018 2:43 pm

Hello Donald and John

Thanks you for your replies and all the wonderful bits of information you have shared.

I’m very sorry to hear about Jill and about your recent fall, Donald. I hope you are on the mend and back to full strength soon.

I will have a look through my DNA matches to see if I can identify any cousins who might be able to take the Y test, and let them know. Unfortunately I have no one in my immediate family that I can ask, but I have been in touch with a cousin called Bob Brown recently, who I think also uses these pages, or once did, so it may be something he’d be interested in. We share Solomon and Euphemia Murray as common ancestors.

The information about the slate quarries is very welcome and I’ll source that book you’ve highlighted. On another branch of my tree I have Scott stone mason ancestors from Ayrshire who worked for a few years in the quarries in Ballachullish and Oban, and it would be great to know more about how all my quarrying ancestors lived and worked. I visited the remains of the quarry at Ballachullish earlier this year – the colour of the blue slate is stunning.

Until now I’ve had no information on Donald and Agnes, other than that they were Solomon’s parents, so your Cullipool information is a great find – thank you.

John, I’m in Lanarkshire, so not far away at all! Currently working in Glasgow today, but home is in North Lanarkshire.

Best wishes

Laura
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