Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

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Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

Postby Ozlivingstone » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:52 am

Hi there - I am new to this forum and just wanted to sat hi. My mother is Agnes Livingstone and I also look after a FTDNA kit for my 1st Cousin Phillip Livingstone, the son of my mothers brother John Livingstone.

There are lots of us in Australia and my grandfather had nine children and my great grandgather was one of 8. A few of that level migrated to Australia in the late 1800's.

It seems that our Family is DNA related to Livingstones of various spellings from the Angus/Glamis areas. The result has a genetic difference of 0 at 37 markers. Big Y has been ordered. Not found an actual link as yet. Our Livingstones as best we can tell are as follows although not all confirmed with paper records.

Alexander Livingstone and wife Elizabeth Hog
B: 1730 in Tranent, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland

James Livingstone and wife Sarah Wood
B: 21.08. 1763 in Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland
D: bef 1870

James Livingstone and wife Isabel Baxter
B: 17 Jun 1796 in Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland

James Livingstone and wife Janet Young
B: 17 Jun 1824 in Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland

Alexander Livingstone and wife Julia Sullivan (Ireland)
B: 07 Jun 1867 in Dalkeith, Midlothian, Edinburgh, Scotland
D: 2 May 1928 in Victoria, Australia

Donald McCrae Livingstone and wife Marguerite Mary "Rita" HAYNES (Australia)
B: 13 Mar 1895 in Footscray, Victoria, Australia
D: 18 Nov 1949 in Parkville , Victoria, Australia

Agnes Livingstone - my mother
B 1930 Victoria Australia.

Brother of Agnes - John Livingstone - and his son Philip who is the YDNA test match on Family tree.
B: 1927 Victoria Australia

Looking forwards to finding a connection to finding common ancestor between the lowlands and Angus/Glamis areas

John Dean
Sydney Australia
Last edited by Ozlivingstone on Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:13 am

Hi John,

Sorry have not had any Livingstons of Angus ancestry contact the forum or from a place called Glamis.

I am however familiar with this early Trenant East Lothian, Scotland line of Phillip's Livingstone's as basically the same one of our Clansman David Wyse Livingston from our Clan Maclea Livingstone Society is descended from James Livingston and Sarah Wood as Phillip apparently is. This is posting on our Forum from the past in which I provide David Wyse Livingston with fairly detailed ancestral line info going back before James Livingston and Sarah Wood a bit with that Tranent East Lothian Scotland family which are also connected and think you will see how you are related to David Wyse Livingston who is active in our Clan Society. See my message below from 2016. Looks like you our David Wyse Livingston are distant cousins.

What is Phillips kit number and what year did he do the familytreedna test? You mentioned I think that he had done the 37 marker test. I assume that with the big Y you'll get that upgrade to the 111 Y test which with addition of comprehensive SNP's that he will tested for it comes with a 111 y test which makes it much easier actually to spot close matches that you can do with the 37 marker test would. Though it is generally the case if you find someone who is a close match at 37-0 that quite frequently that could mean if you did an 67 marker test a 37-0 might be a 67-1 which is one of my Livingston cousins closest matches. A 67-1 match in turn as was the case in my Livingston cousins closest match 67-1 became 111-2 when I upgraded my cousin to the 111 marker test. So your 37-0 match if received 111 marker test results with that SNP Big Y package then that 37-0 close match could be 111-2 can't say for sure but might turn out like that. 37 marker are a good starting point test which can give one a general sense of which Livingtons you probably are going to be a close or more distant match with depending the genetic distance of 0 or a greater number value than that indicating greater genetic distance from your cousins results. ^67 Markers is better test to start with but 37 markers if less expensive for sure. My Livingston cousin is of Western Argyllshire highland maclea Livingstones and is not a match with Phillip but I was curious about how the Tranent Livingtons when tested with the famlytreedna test Y chromosome would compare with the many other diverse collection of tested Livingston results in the Livingstone Project.

Anyways I get off topic below is my 2016 posting regarding the Tranent, East Lothian ancestors of David Wyse Livingston in our Clan Society who is a distant cousin of Phillip I believe based on this info. And you can see where his line differs from Phillip's and when. You may find this of interest. David resides I believe in the United States.


by Canadian Livingstone » Mon May 02, 2016 1:03 pm

Hi David,


Just refreshing my memory on this Livingstone family line.

I am only able to go as far back as Alexander Livingston of Eden and Elizabeth Hog's marriage in Tranent, East Lothian December 21, 1751. I can not find Alexander Livingston's birth or baptismal record with any certainty. Presume he was born abt. 1730 or earlier but not certain which Alexander he was in the Scottish records or if his birth or baptismal record exists for certain. Not certain that Alexander Livingston that lived in Tranent Parish, East Lothian in the 1750's was knighted or connected to an aristocratic line that you mentioned. You would have to research it in one of those old books that would list scots in the 1700's who were knighted. That would be the first thing you would want to check. Some of them give a detailed genealogy of those who were knighted, who they were married to and where they lived etc. The one thing you do know is that James Livington's father lived at Alexander that married Elizabeth Hog lived at Eden, in Tranent Parish, East Lothian at the time of his marriage in 1751. A birth or baptismal record is not sure thing. I think the next step is confirm whether or not this Alexander Livingston husband of Elizabeth Hog was actually a knight and that may not prove to be too difficult.

Tranent Parish, East Lothian
Alexander Livingstone in Tranent and his wife Elizabeth Hog had a son James born August 21st 1763, Baptized said day August 21st by Mr. Cunningham Minister of Tranent, Witnesses: Andrew Livington and James Hog

James parents: Alexander Livingston and Elizabeth Hog married December 25, 1751 , Tranent Parish, East Lothian Witnesses: John Boswel, Janet King. There is a name of a town or village where they lived at the time of their marriage but I can't quite read it. I thought it was Eden but I am sure that is correct.
Children:
1.Charles Livingston born July 5, 1757 baptized July 10, 1757 Tranent Parish, East Lothian
2. Elizabeth Livingston born July 28, 1760 baptized July 28, 1760 Witnesses Andrew Livingston and James Hog
3. Jean Livingston born Sept. 22, 1761 baptized Sept. 27, 1761
4. James Livingston born August 21, 1763 baptized August 21, 1763 Witness: Andrew Livingston
(This was your ancestor James Livingston who later married Sarah Wood I believe)


James Livingston and Sarah Wood (Could not locate marriage record)
Tranent Parish, East Lothian
1. Alexander Livingston 29/03/1789
2. Janet Livingstone 12/06/1791
3. James Livingstone 16/03/1794
4. James Livingstone 03/07/1796
5. John Livingstone born 24/09/1798 baptized 04/10/1798
5. David Howie Livingstone 15/05/1803
6. John Livingston your ancestor born abt 1801 according to 1875 death record. Parents listed in death record as James Livingston and Sarah Wood. The 1871 Census however suggests that he was born abt. 1806 or 1805. The parish record information states that John Livingstone born however in 1798. His death record clearly indicates that his parents were James Livingston and Sarah Wood so we have to assume that no one in the family at the time of the census or his death was aware of his actual birth date and age or those who copied down the info got it wrong.

Your ancestor John Livingston not recorded in these parish records but his census records state he was born in Tranent Parish about 1806. His death record suggests about 1801. Death information in 1875 confirms that John's parents were James Livingston and Sarah Wood whom we know resided in Tranent Parish at the time of John's birth.
Death Record
John Livingston Baker and general labourer married to Helen Cockburn died age 74 years August 21, 1875 Chesterhill, Cranston Parish, Midlothian, Scotland Parents: James Livingston and Sarah Wood Informant: Mary Livingston daughter in law



Hope you found this of some interest John.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

Postby Ozlivingstone » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:46 am

Hi there happy to be in contact and have been chatting with Andrew Lancaster from the DNA project. It seems from the yDNA there are some close matches

one
Genetic Distance 0 name Mr. Edwin Livingstone
James Livage of Glamis, Angusshire b abt 1675

two
Genetic Distance 0 Ronald Lindsay Livingston II
John Liveston, b. 1790 Forar, Angus, Scotland
John Livingston b. 1757 Forar, Angus, Scotland
John Livistone b. abt. 1732
Source discussion with Ronald Livingstone and https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tr ... 0114771683
spelling changes for surname
Phillip Livingstone and Ronald Livingstone tests are next to each other in the Macwho project and have a 11cm autosomal match on Gedmatch.

All very interesting and i will look through the records.

John
Ozlivingstone
 
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Re: Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:54 pm

Hi John,

Yes I see how you and our clansman David Wyse Livingston connect in old Tranent East lothian family group. You are descended from James Livingston born 1796 that was married to Isabell Baxter son of James Livingston and Sarah wood and David is descended from John Livingston a younger brother of James b.1796 and another son of your ancestors James Livingston and Sarah Wood of Trenent, East Lothian, Scotland. Thats incredible news. I will contact David regarding this. I think he will be interesting knowing he has Australian cousins if he does not already know.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2528
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:08 pm

HI John,

And here is another distant relative of yours named Guy Carrion of Oregon, USA who contacted the Forum in the past whose ancestor also settled in Australia.

Re: Livingstones of Tranent
Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:26 am

Hi Guy,
Note to Guy: I have updated this in 2016, added some additional info and made a one change to Generation no. 5 it should read Alexander Livingston and Elizabeth Hog and their son in generation 4 is still James Livingston married to Sarah wood but his birth date has been changed to August 12, 1763.

Here are your probable ancestors according to the Scotish records:
Please note this information has been updated and corrected in 2016
1.David Livingston b. Tranent, East Lothian Nov. 10 1856 d. November 2, 1901 in Stockton, Newcastle, NSW, Australia m. June 22,1880 in District of Old Marcher, Aberdeen, Jessie Stout b. January 19, 1862 Lerwick parish, Shetland, Scotland Parents: Oliver Stout sailor, ship master and merchant services and Louisa Williamson
2.William Livingston b. June 15, 1815 Tranent, East Lothian Coal miner d. unknown after 1881 m. Margaret Landales or Landells of Tranent, East Lothian b. January 20, 1816 baptized Feb. 4, 1816 d. February 11, 1883 Tranent Parish, Haddington. Parents: Archibald Landells coalminer and Jane Jeffrey
3.Alexander Livingston b. March 3,1789 ( or March 22,1789) Tranent, East Lothian m. March 24, 1809 Tranent Parish, East Lothian, Janet Mark b. January 5, 1789 baptized January 19,1789 Tranent Parish, East Lothian d. aft. 1851 Parents: daughter of James Mark and Jean Craig of Tranent Parish
4.James Livingston b.Aug. 21,1763 of Tranent Parish, East Lothian m. 1780's Sarah Wood
5. Alexander Livingston b. unknown in Tranent Parish, East Lothian m. December 25,1751 in Tranent Parish, East Lothian Elizabeth Hog b. Tranent Parish, East Lothian
6. William Livingston b. unknown m. May 8, 1730 Tranent Parish, East Lothian Margaret Innes b. unknown (probably)






regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2528
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

Postby Ozlivingstone » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:12 pm

Hi Donald. The paper chase seems to suggest we are all cousins in Australia. A yDNA test would go a long way to confirm. The other interesting issue is the two Genetic 0 matches with two males up in the Angus/Glamis area with no known connection to Tranent.

I would be very interested in some more DNA info if David has any. Yes it is great news. Also with Guy.

John
Last edited by Ozlivingstone on Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:13 pm

Hi John,

And finally this message from 2014 from another Australian Phillip O'brien apparently related to same David Livingston who' settled in Australia as the earlier inquiry from a gentleman named Guy.

Re: Livingstones of Tranent
Postby Pobriensydney » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:43 am

Hello
Thank goodness I found this thread after googling. The David Livingstone you are referring to, who died in the mining accident at Stockton, is related to me.

Phillip O'Brien is my name, from Sydney Australia. The David Livingstone I mentioned above is my great great grandfather.

My great grandfather is David Livingstone, the son of miner David mentioned above, and Jessie Livingstone.

My great grandfather David had 2 children, one being Gladys Jackson nee Livingstone who was my grandmother.

I am piecing together bits and pieces to trace my Livingstone ancestry and any further information would be appreciated.

I have photos of my great grandfather David, who incidentally served Australia in WW1 at aged just 14. He married Florence. Hansen in 1919 and they had 2 children, one being Gladys as mentioned and a son David Alexander Livingstone.

Not only am I keen to find out more about my family but also how the explorer David Livingstone ties into my family tree, as word passed down from my great grandfather was that we are related to the famous explorer. Even boasting family portraits of the explorer that were passed down through generations.

If anyone can assist with any info that would be appreciated. My email address is pobracing@hotmail.com

Yours sincerely,

Phillip O'Brien
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:16 pm

Hi John,

Not sure that he has taken the familytreedna test, but I will see if can get him to drop by the Forum today and have a chat with you with an Aussie cousin.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2528
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

Postby Ozlivingstone » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:17 pm

I will email Phillip as well. Congratulations this is a great site and resource. John
Ozlivingstone
 
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Re: Livingstones in Australia - DNA connection

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:31 pm

Hi John,

A more distant Trenant East Lothian connection seems to be also our Australian Clan Society Commissioner Kevin Livingstone of Tasmania. It has been a long time since I fully researched his ancestral line so will have dig into my e-mails or hopefully find the ancestral line info I put together and refresh my memory when I was in discussion his Tranent East Lothian ancestry but this brief mention I did find way back when:

"Kevin's family as I understood it from his family tree lived for several generations in Tranent Parish, East Lothian and then settlled at Cannongate, Edinburgh, Mid Lothian and subsequently ended up in Tasmania, Australia. Interesting a Guy Livingston who contacted the forum recently seems to be a distant cousin of Kevins in that he is clearly connected to the same Tranent parish Livingston family one way or another."

If i recall correctly Kevin Livingston our Australian Clan Society did the Y chromosome DNA test some time ago, but you would be best to contact your DNA Project contact who may be able to confirm whether he did or did not. I am going to try find what information exchanges has back I think in 2011 or 2010 with Kevin and see if find my last genealogy related discussions with him

Appreciate your compliment. Thank-you for dropping by and sharing your Livingston family info with our Forum.Sorry I was not any help with your original inquiry regarding Livingstons of Angus origin but this came to mind when I realized you were of the Tranent East Lothian ancestral Livingston group that ended up in Australia.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2528
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

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