Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Public Forum for anyone interested in tracing their roots.
Forum rules
Remember that this forum is publicly accessible. Do not share private information that you wish to remain private on the Ancestral Search forum.

Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Postby Arobbins » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:07 pm

Hello everyone and thank you for allowing me to register.
I am related to the Livingstones through my maternal grandfather Lionel Schofield Fenton and his father Layard Livingstone Fenton. The Livingstone name has been mentioned many times throughout my life by family members, along with stories of a Mary Livingstone who we were told accompanied Mary Queen of Scots to her execution. So I knew we are connected somehow but I have only started doing any serious research over the past couple of years. Of course now that I have started I am obsessed with it! With the Livingstone side I had a huge leg up from my 2nd great grandfather Layard Livingstone Fenton who left behind some of his musings and some copied letters and articles, also my maternal aunt who had done a family tree.
I really hope that my research so far is correct as according to Layard Livingstone Fenton’s account, my 5th great grandparents are Sir Alexander Livingstone of Westquarter and his first wife Anne Atkinson. I have then gone on through the Fleming line to include King James IV as my 15th great grandfather through at least two of his mistresses and also his wife Mary Tudor who appears to be a 3rd cousin.
I would really appreciate some help checking if my tree is correct if that is possible. I have a public tree on Ancestry.
Many thanks in anticipation.
Arobbins
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:54 pm

Re: Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:17 pm

Hello A Robbins,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum. My area of expertise is unfortunately not with the Westquarter Livingston family, but I from you have told me and from what I can see myself from ancestry.com it certainly looks like your Fenton family could be as you state connected to the old Westquarter Livingston family. It is pretty clear from the English records I assume then that your ancestor Rev. John Fenton married and Ann Livingston in 1801 in Cumberland, England. Does the 1801 marriage record or the death record of Anne Livingston provide the name of her parents. I was wondering what proof there in terms of surviving earlier Fenton family info, that confirms for certain that your ancestor John Fenton married a daughter of Sir Alexander Livingston of Westquarter and his wife Ann Atkinson. I really don't know very much about Sir Alexander Livingston's family history unfortunately. Someone at the Falkirk local history society might be of more help with likely a better knowledge of the family trees of this old aristocratic Livingston family than I.
http://falkirklocalhistorysociety.co.uk ... php?id=124

I can see that the Layard Livingston Fenton your relative you speak of was born in Bombay India on Oct.14, 1849 m. Katharine Isabella Ashburton on March 10 1874 and Layard was the son of George Livingston Fenton b. June 4, 1812 in Torpenhow, Cumberland, England and tha he married Mary ann Lloyd Dec. 19, 1843 and that George Livingston Fenton was the son of Rev. John Fenton and Ann Livingston and they were married Nov. 4, 1801 in Torpenhow, Cumberland, England. I see from the Scottish Parish records that Alexander Livingstone of Westquarter Esq. and Ann Livingstone had a daughter born Dec. 21, 1774 and baptized Dec. 23, 1774 at Polmont Parish, Stirlingshire, Scotland.

I am sorry that I don't know enough about a Fenton/Livingston family connection with the old Westquarter lowland Livingston family to be of much help to you. I noticed that Ann's husband Rev. John Fenton died Oct. 13, 1854 and that it just seems to state that his wife Ann also died in 1854 but I could not find any further information regarding her death date or a lead me to a death record. Don't know though that even if you located Ann's death record it would necessarily include the name of the Ann's Parents. The 1851 when she and her husband are residing on the Isle of Mann certainly suggests she is born around 1774 so your ancestor Mrs John Fenton/Ann Livingston certainly appears to be around the same age as Ann daughter of Sir Alexander Livingston of Westquarter and his wife Ann Atkinson. I am not familiar with you research, so I am not aware of whether or not you have conclusive documentation that proves for certain that your ancestor Ann Livingston who married your ancestor Rev. John Fenton was the daughter of Sir Alexander Livingston and Ann Alexander of Polmont Parish, Stirlingshire. It sounds though from what you said, that your family has been researching the Fenton-Livingston family connection for some time and may have had access to information that I would not be aware of.

Interestingly enough the Ann Livingstone daughter of Sir Alexander was the only Ann Livingstone or Livingston I could locate in the Church of Scotland records born or baptized in the year 1774, so that certainly gives me good reason to suspect you are probably correct in your assertion of a family connection to the old Westquarter Livingston family and Sir Alexander Livingston of that family and his daughter Ann.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Postby Arobbins » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:19 am

Hello Donald and thank you very much for your reply.
I haven’t managed yet to find a proper marriage certificate, only a transcript which doesn’t have her parents names on. I will carry on looking. I have found some secondary sources which connect the Rev John Fenton and Ann Livingstone which name her parents as Alexander of Westquarter and Anne Atkinson, which hopefully I can manage to attach here.
I have uploaded one and will upload the others tomorrow.
Many thanks again, Amanda.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Arobbins
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:54 pm

Re: Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:28 am

Hi Amanda,
Thanks for sharing that.
That book you have located which includes titled Livingston families is a pretty convincing and likely quite reliable source I would think and it does indeed confirm that your ancestor Rev John Fenton's wife Ann Livingston was the daughter of Sir Alexander Livingston of Westquarter. That is pretty amazing. You are the first person I think to contact us with Livingston ancestry who has compelling evidence indicating they are descended from the this Westquarter Livingston family. This is really interesting and very exciting.

I was not able to find all the children of Alexander Livingston of Westquarter and his wife Ann Atkinson listed in the original Scottish parish records, but this is what I did find.
Torphichen Parish, West Lothian Records
The William Livingston birth/baptism record gives some info on this other aristocratic Alexander Livingston from West Lothian
" Alexander Livingston at Bedlormy had a son born in Bedlormy House on the 22th of October (1767) and baptized there on the 26th of the said month called William before these witnesses William Livingstone of Westquarter etc.....
Alexander Livingston of Westquarter and Ann Atkinson his spouse a (fourth) son called John Robert Livingston baptized July 9, 1771
Alexander Livingston of Westquarter and Ann Atkinson his spouse a (fifth son) called Thurstanius Livingston baptized July 17, 1772

Born and Baptized at Polmont Parish, Stirlingshire
Alexander Livingstone of Westquarter and Ann Atkinson his spouse a daughter Ann Livingstone born December 21, 1774 baptized December 23, 1774
Alexander Livingston of Westquarter and Ann Atkinson his spouse a son James Livingston born December 3, 1774 baptized December 5, 1774 and this interesting comment:
"The said gentleman and his lady have the title? of Bedlormy and this is their sixth son."




regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:03 am

Hi Amanda,

You are absolutely correct about your Fenton-Livingston Westquarter Livingston connection and here is absolute proof if you need it. Go to the sixth paragraph of this page I am including below and continue reading the information on the Westquarter Livingstons and Ann Livingston Fenton is mentioned in great detail and her participation in a Westquarter Livingston family dispute. It ends with discussion of Alexander's son Thurstanius Livingston and then a Westquarter Livingston family dispute in which your ancestor Ann Livingston Fenton is involved in. I accidentally stumbled upon this late this evening. You may have seen this before but if not then this is what you are likely looking for. Here is your proof.

https://www.electricscotland.com/histor ... gstone.htm
With what you found and this Livingstone article I am including there is no question of your ancestor Ann Livingston wo married Rev. John Fenton you mentioned was as you believe the daughter of 9th Baronet of Westquarter and Bedlormie Sir Alexander Livingston.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:12 pm

Hi Amanda,

So then Ann died in 1859 after successfully having her legal challenge against her brother son Alexander Livingston's legitimacy to become the 11th Baronet successfully fought in the courts. So was that the end of the Westquarter and Bedlormie Livingstons and their claim to this title then? I had read about this Westquarter Livingston family before in my search for any living Livingston descendants who might still be out there somewhere several years ago but did not have any luck. This is really interesting story and the fact that your ancestor Ann Livingston Fenton was such an important part of final family drama that unfolded in the courts regarding her nephew's claim to the title of the 11th Baronet of Westquarter and Bedlormie.

I am going to recap your family line connected to the 9th Baronet Sir Alexander Livingston who died in 1795 who was married to Ann Atkinson. Work in progress and need to confirm somehow the earlier family connections if possible.
1. Hon. George Livingstone of Ogleface Linlithgow 4th son of William Livingstone 6th Lord Livingstone and younger brother of ALexander Livingston first Earl of Linlithgow.

2. Sir William Livingstone

3. Sir Alexander Livingstone

4.Sir Alexander Livingstone of Bedlormie m. Susan Walker

5.Sir Alexander Livingstone m. Henrietta Scott

6. Robert Livingstone m. Isabella Baillie (Brother of 8th Baronet of Westquarter WIlliam Livngston)

7. 9th Baronet of Westquarter and Bedlormie Sir Alexander Livingston d. 1795 m. Ann Atkinson
Sir Alexander Livingston succeeded his Uncle the 8th Baronet, Sir William Livingston of Westquarter and Bedlormie who died without issue in 1769.

8. Ann Livingston b. Dec. 21, 1774 Polmont Parish, Stirlingshire, Scotland d. 1859 England m. Rev. John Fenton

9. George Livingston Fenton b. June 4, 1812 Torpenhow, Cumberland, England d. m. Mary Ann Lloyd on Dec. 19, 1843

10.Layard Livingston Fenton b. Oct. 14, 1849 Bombay, India d. Oct. 14, 1921 South Molton, Devon, England m.March 10, 1874 in Poona, Bombay, India, Katharine Isabella Ashburton b. Nov. 9, 1853 Mumbai Maharashtra, India d. 1891 (Layard Livingston Fenton was your great- great grandfather on your Mother's side of family)

11. Lionel Schofield Fenton b. April 19, 1881 Mumbai, Maharashtra, India d. 1960 Weybridge, Surrey England m. Sept 5, 1903 West Bengal, India, Katharine Clara Holloway b. Sept. 18, 1883 d. March 3, 1963 Weybridge, Surrey

12. Evelyn Fenton b. July 28, 1905 Mumbai, Maharastra, India d. Aug. 1, 1995 Chertsey, Surrey, England m. William Wilkinson 1895- 1980 or 1985

13. Parents

14. Amanda Parker Robbins
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Postby Arobbins » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:11 pm

Hi again Donald,
Thank you I agree, very exciting and what an interesting story !! It makes one wonder what happened after the court case, it must be possible to find out. Maybe the Fentons profited somehow. I am very glad that it looks like I have not just been barking up literally the wrong tree! I had been beginning to wonder if I was making mistakes so it’s fantastic to have another pair of eyes on this.
Things have overtaken me a bit today and I’ve just got back from work so as I want to look at everything you have said thoroughly I will come back later or tomorrow with a proper reply and also a couple of items that you may find interesting.

I forgot to mention that the book I shared above is A Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of the Peerage and Baronetage of the British Empire by John Bernard Burke 1845, courtesy of Google.

I will be back!
Amanda
Arobbins
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:54 pm

Re: Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 pm

Hi Amanda,
Yes I think your ancestor Alexander Livingston the 9th Baronet of Westquarter would no doubt have interesting family tree going back into middle ages in Scotland. It looks like he succeeded his Uncle the 8th Baronet of Westquarter William Livingston who died in 1769 and had no sons to succeed him. I don't know however the name of your ancestor Alexander Livingstons' father who would have been this 8th Baronet's brother. It is likely that someone may know however and may be recorded in some old book possibly.

I remembered when I first saw that Livingstone information regarding the court challenge regarding the legitimacy of the 11th Baronet, I was unable to find out what happened after that except that the court ruled against Ann's Fenton's nephew being the 11th Baronet and I did not bother to look further into it. I quite agree there must be a little more to this story.

We have those Burke books in our reference library. Great resource when doing research on old titled, aristocratic families of Great Britain. The old aristocratic lowland Livington families in Scotland lost their land and titles for supporting the Jacobite cause during the earlier Jacobite rebellion of 1715 which preceded the Rebellion of 1745 which ended all hopes of Jacobite sympathizers in Scotland to restore the Stuarts to the throne of Great Britain. After the failed 1715 Rebellion, a number of the lowland Livingston Lords who had backed James Stuart the son of King James II, fled into exile in Italy or France and they lost their titles and ancestral castles and land and died in exile.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Postby Arobbins » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:31 am

Hi again Donald,
I had a nice big and detailed reply all ready to go which I have now saved as a draft as unfortunately I can't upload the document I was wanting to show you. It says I have exceeded the uploads for this board. Any ideas? sorry but being a newbie I don't yet know what I am doing.
Arobbins
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:54 pm

Re: Layard Livingstone Fenton and beyond

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:31 pm

Hi Amanda,

I will check with our Clan Commissioner and our Clan Chief on that one. I have not seen that come up before. How many pages was it that you were attempting to send with your last message? I don't get it either. I will get back to you on this mystery.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
Canadian Livingstone
 
Posts: 2633
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Next

Return to Ancestral Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests

cron