Sarah Livingston of Kilniver Parish, Argyllshire
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:26 pm
Hi rehartman,
I am repeating my two orginal replies to your message that are currently located with original the Mary Livingston postings with this new Sarah Livingston posting so any additional Sarah Livingston inquiries might see very quickly at our Forum postings regarding primarily Sarah Livingston of Kilninver Parish, Argyll.
As a followup to my reply to your message in the Mary Livingston posting I thought it might be more helpful to you or anyone else descended from Sarah Livingston who might visit our Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum to also set up my two replies also in a new posting dedicated just to Sarah Livingston of Kilninver Parish, Argyll research. I think there a couple of other Livingston descendants doing research on Sarah Livingston.
Glad to hear you made the trek to connect with the Kilniver Parish of your highland Argyllshire Maclea-Livingstone ancestors. There is so much amazing scenery in Western Argyllshire and a lot of history. My own Maclea Livingstone ancestors and their Livingstone kin were originally located nearby along the Morvern coast in Morvern Parish not far from our Clan Chief's ancestral home at Bachuil on the Island of Lismore.
Thought you might be interested. The actual original Kilniver Parish Church of Scotland records only record information on some of the children of a Donald Livingstone and Mary McCulloch unfortunately and is obviously incomplete for some reason for this family. I did think they were all birth entries but when I checked the original parish book pages one was listed under Baptisms so I assume it is actually a baptism and have written it down as such. But I think we can still assume she was born around 1801. Here are the original surviving entries for Donald and Mary's children I could locate as recorded in the first decade of the 1800's by the Church of Scotland Parish minister:
Baptisms Kilninver Parish
2 May 1801
Donald Livingstone Laganmore and his spouse Mary McCulloch had born to them their daughter Sarah
Births Kilninver Parish
20th July 1803
Donald Livingstone Laganmore and his spouse Mary McCulloch had born to them their son John
6th September 1805
Donald Livingstone Laganmore and his spouse Mary McCuloch had born to them their son Dugald
There is one perplexing problem that I am most recently puzzled about regarding your Sarah (Livingston) Fotheringham's 1879 record. Sarah's daughter the informant on her 1879 Glasgow death record states that Sarah's parents were a Daniel Livingston and oddly enough a Mary Carmichael rather than McCulloch. At this point I am not sure if that is an error or what to make of it. I then checked for any information in the birth or marriage records of a Daniel Livingston and Mary Carmichael and could not find any to confirm or deny their existence. At least so far. I do know that if you do a birth record search for the first decade of the 1800's the only Sarah Livingstone recorded is that of a Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch but one has to also realize also that that Sarah Livingstone baptized by 1801 and according to her death record Sarah (Livingston) Fotheringham was aged 72 when died in 1879 which would a birth date closer to if correct to around 1807. Sarah Fotheringham was definitely a Sarah Livingston but was she the daughter of a Daniel Livingston and Mary Carmichael as her daughter stated in Sarah's death record or the only Sarah Livingston listed in the Argyll records born in the first decade of the 1800's born to Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch your Sarah Fotheringham's parents and the daughter somehow got confused at the time of her Mother's death in 1879. That is the problem I am struggling with at the moment. Oh here is the 1879 death for your ancestor Sarah Fotheringham with the problem mentioned.
Deaths in the District of Camlaclue Burgh of Glasgow
Name and Surname
Sarah Fotheringham widows of William Fotheringham Cotton Weaver and hand loom
When and Where died?
July 14, 1879
37 Soho Street Glasgow
age 72 years
Name of Father
Daniel Livingston Mason and Journeyman
deceased
Maiden name of Mother
Mary Carmichael (I am now thinking that the person that recorded this famiy info got mixed up and put down "Camichael instead McCulloch". It must be a mistake in my opinion given all the other info that is out there that seems to challenge the notion of a Carmichael being Sarah Fotheringham's mother's maiden name.
Cause of Death
Bronchitis 1 year
Informant
Mary Hillhouse
daughter
However!!!! As your mentioned the 1851 Census of a Sarah Fotheringham born abt. 1801 states she was born in a "Killnesever, Arglesh at least according to whoever transcribed the info Ancestry.com has in it's record. Now it is obvious a spelling error but the spelling error is clearly awfully close to Kilninver, Argyll that the Sarah Fotheringham at least in the 1851 Census residing at Airdrie, Monkland in the County of Lanarkshire is definitely the Sarah Livingston born in the early 1800's in Kilinver Parish. This 1851 Sarah Fotheringham link in the 1851 Census to roots in Kilniver Parish, Argyll is too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence at all. This must be the daughter of Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch. Now I just hope that the Daniel Livingston and May Carmichael mentioned in a Sarah Fotherham 1879 death record did not actually exist and somehow reside in Kilninver parish at the same time as Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch. I have not found any proof of there existence in the Church of Scotland records so that could be a very good thing.
In terms of the Donald/Daniel Livingston question it should be noted that in the records of Livingstons of Argyllshire origin with the name Donald or Daniel i have come some records were obviously both names are oddly enough used by the same person and seemed to be among the Scots were considered to be basically the same name. I come across this a few times including in one record of my Livingstone Argyll kin so I am overly concerned about the Donald and Daniel thing more about being 100 certain who Sarah's parents were if possible. I think the 1851 Census that you mentioned i looked over is very close to kilninver Parish. I hope at some point to look at the original census page and see if the original transcription by the 1851 census was as bad as what I assume was an ancestry.com transcription of Killnesever, Arglesh and try to determine the original source of that transcription mess. Glad at least it is so obviously Kilninver parish Argyll that I quite comfortable 1851 Sarah Fotheringham was born in Kininver parish which is good news for helping to sort out that serious problem with the 1879 Sarah Fotheringham death record information on Sarah's parents. I may not be able to say with 100 percent certainty there was no Daniel Livingston and Mary Carmichael residing in Kilninver Parish in the early 1800's. All I can say is that is no record of them whereas we know from the records that a Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch had a daughter Sarah baptized in 1801. Cant explain why Sarah Fotheringham's death records says age 72 years at the time of her death in 1879 but I found age mistakes all the time in death records in Scotland which I find quite surprising. I mean don't their children now how old they are and when they are born? Anyways can't quite figure that what out as well. I still believe it most likely that your ancestor Sarah (Livingston) Fotheringham was born abt. 1801 in Kilninver Parish, Scotland to Donald/Daniel? Livingston and Mary McCulloch regardless of what was written down in her 1879 death record.
regards,
Donald
I am repeating my two orginal replies to your message that are currently located with original the Mary Livingston postings with this new Sarah Livingston posting so any additional Sarah Livingston inquiries might see very quickly at our Forum postings regarding primarily Sarah Livingston of Kilninver Parish, Argyll.
As a followup to my reply to your message in the Mary Livingston posting I thought it might be more helpful to you or anyone else descended from Sarah Livingston who might visit our Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum to also set up my two replies also in a new posting dedicated just to Sarah Livingston of Kilninver Parish, Argyll research. I think there a couple of other Livingston descendants doing research on Sarah Livingston.
Glad to hear you made the trek to connect with the Kilniver Parish of your highland Argyllshire Maclea-Livingstone ancestors. There is so much amazing scenery in Western Argyllshire and a lot of history. My own Maclea Livingstone ancestors and their Livingstone kin were originally located nearby along the Morvern coast in Morvern Parish not far from our Clan Chief's ancestral home at Bachuil on the Island of Lismore.
Thought you might be interested. The actual original Kilniver Parish Church of Scotland records only record information on some of the children of a Donald Livingstone and Mary McCulloch unfortunately and is obviously incomplete for some reason for this family. I did think they were all birth entries but when I checked the original parish book pages one was listed under Baptisms so I assume it is actually a baptism and have written it down as such. But I think we can still assume she was born around 1801. Here are the original surviving entries for Donald and Mary's children I could locate as recorded in the first decade of the 1800's by the Church of Scotland Parish minister:
Baptisms Kilninver Parish
2 May 1801
Donald Livingstone Laganmore and his spouse Mary McCulloch had born to them their daughter Sarah
Births Kilninver Parish
20th July 1803
Donald Livingstone Laganmore and his spouse Mary McCulloch had born to them their son John
6th September 1805
Donald Livingstone Laganmore and his spouse Mary McCuloch had born to them their son Dugald
There is one perplexing problem that I am most recently puzzled about regarding your Sarah (Livingston) Fotheringham's 1879 record. Sarah's daughter the informant on her 1879 Glasgow death record states that Sarah's parents were a Daniel Livingston and oddly enough a Mary Carmichael rather than McCulloch. At this point I am not sure if that is an error or what to make of it. I then checked for any information in the birth or marriage records of a Daniel Livingston and Mary Carmichael and could not find any to confirm or deny their existence. At least so far. I do know that if you do a birth record search for the first decade of the 1800's the only Sarah Livingstone recorded is that of a Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch but one has to also realize also that that Sarah Livingstone baptized by 1801 and according to her death record Sarah (Livingston) Fotheringham was aged 72 when died in 1879 which would a birth date closer to if correct to around 1807. Sarah Fotheringham was definitely a Sarah Livingston but was she the daughter of a Daniel Livingston and Mary Carmichael as her daughter stated in Sarah's death record or the only Sarah Livingston listed in the Argyll records born in the first decade of the 1800's born to Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch your Sarah Fotheringham's parents and the daughter somehow got confused at the time of her Mother's death in 1879. That is the problem I am struggling with at the moment. Oh here is the 1879 death for your ancestor Sarah Fotheringham with the problem mentioned.
Deaths in the District of Camlaclue Burgh of Glasgow
Name and Surname
Sarah Fotheringham widows of William Fotheringham Cotton Weaver and hand loom
When and Where died?
July 14, 1879
37 Soho Street Glasgow
age 72 years
Name of Father
Daniel Livingston Mason and Journeyman
deceased
Maiden name of Mother
Mary Carmichael (I am now thinking that the person that recorded this famiy info got mixed up and put down "Camichael instead McCulloch". It must be a mistake in my opinion given all the other info that is out there that seems to challenge the notion of a Carmichael being Sarah Fotheringham's mother's maiden name.
Cause of Death
Bronchitis 1 year
Informant
Mary Hillhouse
daughter
However!!!! As your mentioned the 1851 Census of a Sarah Fotheringham born abt. 1801 states she was born in a "Killnesever, Arglesh at least according to whoever transcribed the info Ancestry.com has in it's record. Now it is obvious a spelling error but the spelling error is clearly awfully close to Kilninver, Argyll that the Sarah Fotheringham at least in the 1851 Census residing at Airdrie, Monkland in the County of Lanarkshire is definitely the Sarah Livingston born in the early 1800's in Kilinver Parish. This 1851 Sarah Fotheringham link in the 1851 Census to roots in Kilniver Parish, Argyll is too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence at all. This must be the daughter of Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch. Now I just hope that the Daniel Livingston and May Carmichael mentioned in a Sarah Fotherham 1879 death record did not actually exist and somehow reside in Kilninver parish at the same time as Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch. I have not found any proof of there existence in the Church of Scotland records so that could be a very good thing.
In terms of the Donald/Daniel Livingston question it should be noted that in the records of Livingstons of Argyllshire origin with the name Donald or Daniel i have come some records were obviously both names are oddly enough used by the same person and seemed to be among the Scots were considered to be basically the same name. I come across this a few times including in one record of my Livingstone Argyll kin so I am overly concerned about the Donald and Daniel thing more about being 100 certain who Sarah's parents were if possible. I think the 1851 Census that you mentioned i looked over is very close to kilninver Parish. I hope at some point to look at the original census page and see if the original transcription by the 1851 census was as bad as what I assume was an ancestry.com transcription of Killnesever, Arglesh and try to determine the original source of that transcription mess. Glad at least it is so obviously Kilninver parish Argyll that I quite comfortable 1851 Sarah Fotheringham was born in Kininver parish which is good news for helping to sort out that serious problem with the 1879 Sarah Fotheringham death record information on Sarah's parents. I may not be able to say with 100 percent certainty there was no Daniel Livingston and Mary Carmichael residing in Kilninver Parish in the early 1800's. All I can say is that is no record of them whereas we know from the records that a Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch had a daughter Sarah baptized in 1801. Cant explain why Sarah Fotheringham's death records says age 72 years at the time of her death in 1879 but I found age mistakes all the time in death records in Scotland which I find quite surprising. I mean don't their children now how old they are and when they are born? Anyways can't quite figure that what out as well. I still believe it most likely that your ancestor Sarah (Livingston) Fotheringham was born abt. 1801 in Kilninver Parish, Scotland to Donald/Daniel? Livingston and Mary McCulloch regardless of what was written down in her 1879 death record.
regards,
Donald