18th Century Argyllshire Livingston Settlers in the Argyle Patent, Albany County in then 1760's Province of New York

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Canadian Livingstone
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18th Century Argyllshire Livingston Settlers in the Argyle Patent, Albany County in then 1760's Province of New York

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi all,

I have been working with additional information regarding the original Livingston settlers of Argyllhshire origin who in the 1760's resided in what was then known as the Argyle Patent in then Albany County east of the Hudson River and now I have a better sense of of their origins and where in the old Argyle Patent they were located.

The first highland Argyllshire Livingstons to arrive in the area of the old Argyle Patent, then in the original Albany County in colonial New York, Donald Livingston and his wife Isabel McQuaig and their two children John and Duncan did so in June of 1739, part of a group of Islay, Argyll settlers led by Captain Lachlan Campbell that arrived in the Province of New York in the years 1738, 1739 and 1740. The Argyllshire settlers had been promised a land grant upon their arrival but that did not happen and it was not until years later in 1764 that the Governor of the then colonial province of New York granted the surviving widow of the late Donald Livingston a 250 acre land grant in what was known back then as the Argyle Patent in what was then part of old Albany County. This land grant is known to have been located at the junction of White Creek and Battenkill in what is today on the eastern edge of East Greenwich, Washington County, New York State. Donald's widow Isabella Livingston is recorded as in the original grantee of a lot 66 in 1764 situated in what is today Eastern Greenwich in Washington County, New York State. There is no information on what became of the two sons of widow Isabella Livingston. What appears to be the case is that these two sons of Donald and Isabella who arrived from Islay, Argyllshire in 1739 seem to disappear in the records and a highland Argyll settler Archibald Livingston (1730-1792) not known to be related to Donald Livingston and Isabella Mcquaig located possibly as early as 1765 at Lot 66 on Isabella's 1764 land grant of 250 acres. It seems quite likely there may have been some family connection back in highland Argyllshire with Isabella's deceased husband's family and this Archibald Livingston but I have not found any information to support that notion as yet.

Archibald actually came to America in 1751 much later than Donald Livingston and his wife Isabel McQuaig and settled firstly in a Scottish settlement in Orange County, Ny and a year after widow Isabella Livington received a land grant at Lot 66 in the Argyle Patent, he located located apparently at Lot 66 in the Argyle Patent in then old Albany County and became the owner of Isabella Livingston's Lot 66 later situated in East Greenwich in Washington County, New York State. I assumed at first that this Archibald Livingston (1730-1792) was a son of original Argyle Patent Islay Argyll settlers Donald Livingston and his wife original grantee of Lot 66 in the old Argyle Patent Isabella McQuaig The surviving information however regarding the origins of Archibald Livingston and his parents however indicate that while he is also of highland Argyllshire origin but that he is not a son of Donald Livingston and Isabella and that arrived with them back in 1739 and apparently he did not arrive in America from Argyllshire, Scotland until years later in 1751 as a young man about 31. Archibald Livingston died in East Greenwich, Sept. 2, 1792 and his wife Eleanor McNaughton died March 7, 1817 in East Greenwich. It is important to note that the lots in Greenwich Township had been up to 1803 been a part of neighbouring Argyle Township until that year when Greenwich Township was established. According to historian Elisha Thurston in his 1876 book the History of the Town of Greenwich Archibald Livingston and his wife Eleanor McNaughton and other Livingston and McNaughton kin were buried on the former Alexander McNaughton homestead later owned in the 1800's by a man named Christie. The unanswered question remains as to why Archibald Livingston located on Isabella Livingston's 1764 land grant lot 66 in present day East Greenwich apparently shortly after received she received the land grant. That is still a mystery to me, but there is no doubt to the fact that Archibald Livingston and his family occupied this lot and that Archibald Livington became the owner of his lot after it was originally granted to the widow Isabel Livington in 1764 by the Government of the then Province of New York.

Their son Alexander Livingston born June 8, 1769 for many years resided at the old Livingston family homestead at Lot 66 and died Oct. 26, 1863. He married Elizabeth McDougall in 1787.

This is what I have learned regarding the family of Archibald Livingston (1730-1792) who had located on Lot 66 in 1765 and resided there until his death in 1792. Pioneer resident of became East Greenwich, Washington County, NY Archibald Livingston married Eleanor McNaughton daughter of Alexander McNaughton Nov. 23, 1756. Alexander McNaughton arrived in 1738 from Argyll, Scotland with Captain Laughlin Campbell and was one the of early pioneer Argyle Patent settlers from that original highland Argyll settlement group.

The known children of Archibald Livingston and Eleanor McNaughton of Lot 66 East Greenwich, Albany County was:
Mary born Sept. 26,1757, Margaret Livingston born May 30, 1759,Jennie Livingston born Feb. Feb. 2, 1767, Alexander Livingston born June 8, 1769, Moses Livingston born March 2, 1772, Margaret Livingston born June 29, 1774 and Nellie Livingston born Aug. 10, 1777. Their son Alexander was for many years located on the Livingstone Farm at Lot 66 in East Greenwich

Daniel (Donald) Livingston (1730-1793) ( Another Highland Argyllshire Livingston settler who arrived in old Albany County in the 1760's)
Daniel (Donald) Livingston is thought to have born abt. 1730 on the Isle of Islay in southern Argyllshire but this is not 100% certain. From later Upper Canada land petitions it is clear that is a highland Livingston of Argyllshire origin but neither David or his son John in their Upper Canada land petitions state where precisely in Argyllshire, Daniel was born in Argyllshire. He has no known relation with Donald Livingston husband of Isabella Mcquaig or for that matter with the above mentioned Archibald Livingston. He arrived in Albany County, NY probably in the area of the Scottish settlement the Argyle Patent awaiting a land grant for his former military service following his 1763 discharge from the 78th Regiment of Foot after the Regiment was disbanded in Quebec and with other former soldiers of the 78th Regiment took advantage of settlement opportunities in Albany County in the Province There is no apparent family connection between Isabella's late husband Donald Livingston of Islay Argyll and Donald (Daniel) Livingston (1730-1793).

In his early years Daniel Livingston is referred to as Donald Livingston in the records in America and later when he settled in Upper Canada in 1784 he is referred to as Daniel Livingston and this fact was that was later explained years later by his son John Livingston in a later 19th century Upper Canada Land Petition.

Donald (Daniel) Livingston served for seven years enlisting in 1757 in Scotland in the 78th Regiment of Foot (Fraser's Highlander's) and served in Canada during the French and Indian Wars arriving in 1757 in Canada. The 78th Regiment organized themselves in Inverness that year and sailed from Glasgow, Scotland in April of 1857. In the 1757/1758 period the Regiment was stationed in Connecticut. Later in 1758 they prepared for an Invasion of Louisburgh in present day Nova Scotia and in July of 1758 they were participating in the Battle of Louisburg and in July of that year the French were defeated at Louisburg. In the Spring of 1759 the 78th Highlanders joined up with General Wolfe and his attack on the Plains of Abraham and helped to defeat the French in Quebec in that year.

The 78th Regiment of Foot (Fraser's Highlanders). Donald McIntyre, Donald Livingston's neighbour in the 1760's and early 1770's in Albany County also served in Frasers Highlanders and stated years later in one of his Upper Canada Land Petitions that the " Petitioner had the honor of serving in Fraser's Highlanders (the 78th Regt.) at the taking of Louisburgh, Quebec and Montreal was in the action of the 13th of September 1759 under General Wolfe on the plains of Abraham and in the action of the 18th of April 1760 under General Murray." A surviving subsistence roll dated August 16,1763 of those in the 78th Regiment (Fraser's Highlanders) in Quebec following the end of the French and Indian Wars, confirms that Donald (Daniel) Livingston served as a private in Capt. Alexander Campbell Company.

The French and Indian War ended with the defeat of the French and Fraser's Highlanders was subsequently disbanded in Quebec in 1763. Some of the officers and enlisted men decided not to return to Scotland but take up settlement in land grants in Quebec earlier in 1763 in Quebec while others took the option given them to take up settlement in the then Province of New York in land in Albany County. They were to be supplied rations to make their journey to Albany County.
From http://www.gaspejohnpaterson.ca/pages/77regiment.pdf
"At the conclusion of the war, all the officers and men in Mongomery's* and Fraser's regiments who chose to settle in America were discharged, each receiving a grant of land in proportion to his rank; the rest were sent home and discharged in Scotland."

Also this information regarding from a detailed account of the history of the 78th from a 78th Regiment related website:
"When the Seven Years' War ended, plans were made to ship the Regiment home to be disbanded..... Any officer or soldier who opted to remain in America could take their discharge in Quebec, and 170 NCOs and privates accepted this offer. Of this number, 80 wished to settle in upstate New York, and as a special privliege, were given sufficient rations to reach Albany."

While Donald Livingston does not appear on a 1763 list of those officers and enlisted men of the 78th who settled in America at this time it is known from a subsequent 1764 and 1765 Albany County, Province of New York land record that he did do exactly that along with other former members of the 78th Regiment who became his neighbours. Another earlier 1763 list dated August 16, 1763 a subsistence list of Officers and enlisted men of the 78th Regimentconfirms that indeed a Private Donald (Daniel) Livington served in Captain Alexander Campbells Company during the French and Indian War and is listed in 1763 at the War's end in this Company of the 78th Regiment (Fraser's Highlanders) before receiving his discharge and making the subsequent journey to Albany County, Province of New York hoping to receive a land grant from the Crown and the Government of the Province of New York.

I assume that Donald Livingston arrived in 1763/1764 in Albany County because by 1764 a preliminary survey of a 150 acre lot in Albany County east of the Hudson River in what is now situated in present day Rupert Township, Bennington County, Vermont along the White Creek in the Whilte Creek meadow was untaken for Private Donald Livingston formerly of the 78th Regiment and two other former privates of the 78th Regiment Allan McArthur and a John McDonald. The three of them were to share this 150 acre lot with each of them located on 50 acres. The Survey information for their lot was recorded with a date November 6, 1764.

A few years later in 1765 King George the Third and the Governor of the then Colonial Province of New York granted former soldiers who served in Fraser's Highlanders during the French and Indian Wars a land grant in 1765 in recently opened up Argyle Patent east of the Hudson River along the White Creek in then Albany County. Donald (Daniel) Livingston was granted a portion of a lot on May 13th 1765, the lot which Private Allan McArthur and Private John McDonald of the 78th Highland Regiment and others were also located in 1765 in a part of Argyle Patent east of Hudson River along the White Creek at White Creek in the north part of what the 78th Regiment grantees understood in 1765 was in North East Argyle Township in then old Albany County, NY. Also located on a neighbouring lot adjacent to Donald's lot along the White Creek was a former Sgt. Donald McIntyre also of the 78th Regiment.

I am including a brief excerpt of Donald (Daniel) Livingston's original copy of the 1765 land grant from the Government of the Province of New York which he received that year and which for many years was in the possession in Upper Canada of his son John Livingston who settled with him in Upper Canada.
(original 1765 Military Land Grant NY for 3 former soldiers of the 78th Regiment of Foot (Fraser's Highlanders)
"King George the Third by the Grace of God of Great Britain, France and Ireland King, Defender of the Faith and so forth: To all to whom these Presents shall come Greetings: Know ye that of our special grace, certain knowledge and meer motion We have given, granted, ratified and confirmed and do by these presents for us our Heirs and Successors, Give, Grant, Ratify and confirm unto our loving subjects Donald Livingston, Alan McArthur and John McDonald being disbanded soldiers having served in North America during the late war and last belonging to our 78th Regiment of Foot All that certain tract of parcel of land situate lying and being on the East side of Hudson's River in the County of Albany within our Province of New York Beginning st the Southeast corner of a tract of land surveyed from Donald McGilvray and the others and runs then west twenty nine chains and seventy six links , then South fifty two chains and seventy five links theh East twenty chains and seventy nine links and then north fifty two chains and seventy five links to the place where this tract began containing one hundred and fifty acres of land and the usual allowance of highways.
Witness our truly and well beloved Cadwallader Colson Esquire Our Lieutenant Governor and Commander in Chief of our Province of New York and the Territories defending thereon in America.In Pursuance of our Royal Proclamation of the Seventh day of October in the third year of our Reign at our Fort in our City of New York the thirteenth day of May - One THousand Seven Hundred and Sixty-Five in the fifth year of Our Reign. "

Unfortunately for former soldiers Donald Livingston, Alan McArthur, John McDonald and their neighbour Donald McIntyre In 1771 a jurisdictional land dispute developed between the Province of New York and neighbouring New Hampshire occurred which questioned the legitimacy of their 1765 land grant east of the Hudson River in the original Albany County of that time. Some former soldiers of 78th Regiment in which included Donald (Daniel) Livingston and others who had received a land grant in 1765 in Albany County, New York east of Hudson in the then Argyle Patent later Argyle Township which was challenged by the neighbouring Government of New Hampshire who also laid claim to the lands on which Donald and other former soldiers of the 78th Regiment were now occupying and referred to this area as being in Rupert Township, Bennington County, New Hampshire. According to New Hampshire these settlers were situated in Rupert Township, Bennington County in New Hampshire and these settlers from the Province of New York were not entitled to settle there. As a result of this disagreement there was a flare up between some New Hampshire grantees who objected to the Argyle, Albany County settlers who they believed were occupying the land illegally. At this time then Donald Livington, John McDonald and Donald McIntyre formerly of the 78th Regiment of Foot, (Fraser's Highlanders) were situated on two lots located according to the Government of New Hampshire in Rupert Township along the White Creek in the White Creek Meadows in what they were told was the North West Corner of old Argyle Township in Albany County, NY but actually according New Hampshire this land was part of neighbouring New Hampshire and had been granted to Robert Cochrane and was considered to New Hampshire as part of their New Hampshire grants and located in Rupert Township, Bennington County part of New Hampshire close to the Province of New York border. On June 11th of 1771 Robert Cochrane led a group of 14 disgruntled and armed New Hampshire grantees who attacked former Sgt. Donald McIntyre of the 78th Regiment and his neighbours including the former Private Donald (Daniel Livingston) were forcibly removed from their log cabins and expelled them from their lots .Donald McIntyre and the other displaced settlers removed to the safety and sanctuary of nearby New Perth (Salem) where they were helped by friends and the congregation of the local Presbyterian Church. It appears that the displaced group of settlers remained in November and through the Winter in the New Perth area and that Donald (Daniel) Livingston never returned to his original land grant north east of New Perth adjacent to the White River in the 1770's. According to a descendants of Donald Livingston he relocated to Fitches point in New Perth (Salem) most likely after that.

After their ordeal in June of 1771, Donald McIntyre on behalf of himself, his neighbour Donald (Daniel Livingston) and other displaced and assaulted settlers also formerly of the 78th Regiment (Fraser's Highlanders) petitioned the Governor of the Province of New York Thomas Tryon, reminding him that they had fought for Great Britain during the French and Indian Wars and had been granted this land back in 1765 in then Argyle Patent Argyletown and had been unjustly and forcibly removed from their lots and had their log cabins burnt to the ground, by Robert Cochrane and group of men claiming that land within 16 miles of the Hudson River was a part of a New Hampshire grant. Among those who signed this petition was Donald (Daniel) Livingston said to be a neighbour of Donald McIntyr The lots Donald Livingston and his neighbour Donald McIntyre were granted for their military service was in the White Creek meadow area a few miles north east of the present day town of Salem in present day Washington County but back then in old Albany County. In response to the Government receiving this petition in August it was determined that an investigation should be undertaken. it was concluded that Robert Cochrane and the angry New Hampshire grantee were connected to the trouble maker Ethan Allen leader of the Green Mountain Boys and as a result Governor Tryon had a warrant issued for Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain boys for "forcibly dispossessed Donald McIntyre and others seated on lands east of the Hudson River under Grants of this Province." However despite an eventual increase in the reward, Ethan Allen and his associates were not apprehended.

It would seem that the New Hampshire Government and it's New Hampshire grantees won out in the end over the Argyle Township, Albany County, NY as 78th regiment settlers including Donald McIntyre and his neighbour Donald (Daniel) Livingston were not apparently allowed to return to their grants originally granted to them in North Eastern Argyle Township in Albany County along the White Creek at White Creek Meadow granted to them back in 1765 as Military land grants authorized by the Crown and the Government of New York. These lots were apparently eventually acknowledged by the Colonial Government of New York apparently as being as being situated actually in Neighbouring New Hampshire and being in Rupert Township, Bennington County later to become Rupert Township, Bennington County, Vermont. I am still looking through some New York State records circa 1771 and 1772 to try and determine how and when this land dispute between the Colonial Province of New York and New Hampshire was finally resolved.

According to some of Donald Livingston's descendants Donald Livingston never returned to his original lot he was granted in 1765 after his 1771 expulsion and was still residing in Fitch's Point New Perth (Salem) when in the early years of the American Revolution in August of 1777 Livingston learned that General Burgoynes forces were marching from Canada with a 100,000 soldiers and Indians heading into the Province of New York. After the Allen family massacre in 1777 by a party of Indians connected with Burgoyne's Army in 1777 it is said that Donald (Daniel) Livingston was among a group of settlers who found sanctuary in the General Burgoyne's camp seeking protection following the Allen family massacre. And a short time later Donald Livingston and his neighbour Donald McIntyre both being British sympathizers joined up with Burgoyne's Army and were with him on the battlefield when his forces were defeated by the rebel Americans later in 1777 at Saratoga. His son John Livingston also joined with his father with other local Albany County loyalists wanting to serve with British and General Burgoyne in his invasion of New York. It is not known what loyalist militia group they served with or their Commanding officer. Daniel Livingston mentions in 1793 Upper Canada Land Petition that he served wit General Burgoyne and probably there when he was defeated. The other hand some loyalist militia groups serving with General Burgoyne and the British Army and at the Battle at Saratoga, Ny where Burgoyne and Army was defeated in 1777 were apparently able to escape capture. Interestingly he does not mention being a prisoner following Burgoyne's defeat which he almost certainly would have mentioned in his 1793 Land petition to elicit sympathy on the board of those who would decide on a matter of a land grant. So I assume he with a loyalist militia group was able to escape capture on the Saratoga battlefield in 1777 and it is known that Donald (Daniel) Livingston and his eldest son John apparently returned to the Argyle area in Charlotte County, formerly part of old Albany County, NY according to later Upper Canada records where he and his family were apparently able to live for the remaining 6 years of the Revolutionary War in Argyle Township Charlotte County, (later Washington County before to departing for Upper Canada in 1784 a year after the War ended.

Donald Livingston ended up leaving his then residence in Argyle Township, Charlotte County (Washington County) in 1784 settling that year with family in Upper Canada which he and many other American Loyalists chose or felt compelled to do following the end of the Revolutionary War. In a later 1789 Upper Canada Land Petition before his departure for Upper Canada living somewhere in Argyle Township in Charlotte County (renamed Washington County in 1784 because of it was a name of the family member of the Royal family and a constant reminder of America's pre Revolution Colonial past. Interestingly Donald Livingstone now referring to himself as Daniel Livingston by the time of his 1789 Upper Canada Land Petition he still refers to Washington County as being Charlotte County in the Province of New York, (which had long before 1793 become the State of New York) perhaps hoping to impress upon those from the Government of Upper Canada reading his land petition of his continued loyalty to the Crown and to Great Britain in addition to the information he included regarding his having served in the French and Indian Wars in the 1750's and early 1760's with the 78th Regiment of Foot (Fraser's Highlanders) and in 1777 years later briefly served with a Loyalist militia made up of American Loyalists who joined up with General Burgoyne's Army in that year invading, and hoping for significant military victories against the rebels forces in the then Province of New York.

Daniel settled in Augusta, Grenville County in then Johnstown District, Upper Canada in 1784. Apparently Daniel's sons including his eldest son John Livingston also came to Upper Canada with him but a daughter is said to have stayed behind in Argyle Township in Washington County in New York State and had family there. All that is known about Daniel Livingston's death is that he died in 1793/1794 apparently hit by a falling tree.

It was fortunate a descendant and co-author of an article on his ancestor former 78th Regiment SGt.Donald McIntyre who one time visited the forum and who first brought to my attention in 2017 to the fact that there was some significant old New York State info out there linking his ancestor Donald McIntyre also formerly of the Highland Scottish 78th Regiment of Foot with this Donald (Daniel) Livingston whom myself and some others had been discussing on the Forum for a number of years.

More to follow.


Greg Livingston
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Re: 18th Century Argyllshire Livingston Settlers in the Argyle Patent, Albany County in then 1760's Province of New York

Post by Greg Livingston »

Donald, do you know if there are any decedents of these Livingstons in the DNA project? It could help researchers to gain a bit more information.
Greg Livingston
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Northglenn, Colorado, USA
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: 18th Century Argyllshire Livingston Settlers in the Argyle Patent, Albany County in then 1760's Province of New York

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Greg,
Hope you and your family are keeping well and doing ok during this difficult time we are all going through. Interestingly enough a Livingston gentleman a few years back contacted this Forum stating that he was descended from Daniel Livingston b. abt. 1730 who was a private in Highland 78th Regiment of Foot (Fraser's Highlanders) that participated in the French and Indian Wars, lived later in the Province and subsequently State of New York and in 1784 as Loyalist settled in Upper Canada where other American who had been loyal to the Crown during the Revolutionary War settled in great numbers following the end of that War with forced out by their Patriot neighbours or leaving by choice as apparently Daniel Livingston.

There is this myth that all Loyalists former American colonists who supported and fought with the British were not allowed to return to their farms in America and their land was seized from them as traitors. That was frequently the case in New York State for example but I also know in the case of my ancestor John Utter Sr. who also joined up a loyalist militia in 1777 when Burgoyne and his forces invaded from Canada in the Province fo New York that he was also at the Battle of Saratoga, escaped capture by the American forces and was able safely return to Albany County County and remained there until he decided to settle his family in Upper Canada some years after the end of the Revolutionary War in 1803. So he does not seem to have been under any pressure from angry patriot neighbours when he returned to live in Albany County after the British general Burgoyne's defeat at Saratoga in 1777. Loyalist doctors fared very well after the War as they were short in supply and often held with respect before the revolution and the local patriots often gave them a second chance so speak as long as did not continue to display sympathy with the British and King George. Although my ancestor John Utter's brother Dr. David Utter got into much trouble for speaking his mind about King George by a group calling itself the Albany County Committee for detecting conspiracies against the Revolution and eventually around 1790 they grew annoyed enough by great great great great Uncle to kick him out New York State and fleeing to Upper Canada. He then some years encouraged his younger brother John Utter of Coeymans, Albany County, New York State John's sons John's daughter Christianna Utter and her husband Stephen Clink my ancestors also of Coeysman, New York State some years after that to settle in Upper Canada.

So anyways I was not surprised that this Daniel Livingston also escaped capture at the Battle of Saratoga as the story goes that a number of Loyalist American militia assisting General Burgoyne's Burgoyne's British Amry forces at the Battle of Saratoga were either allowed to leave as terms of the surrender by American General Gates who upon Burgoyne's surrender treated him with the greatest respect and accepted somewhat generous surrender terms. Or the loyalist forces were simply found an opportunity to escape. One way of another it is stated that a number of the loyalist American regiments at Saratoga managed to escape capture by American General Gates army. For many years I wondered how my 4th great grandfather John Utter Sr. who came to Upper Canada in 1803 managed to escape Capture and eventually I found a couple bits of information stating that many of those American Colonists Loyalist to Great Britain who fought in Loyalist regiment alongside British General Burgoyne did in fact escape capture at Saratoga.

Anyways to make a long story short this Livngston gentleman who contacted Forum stated that he understood he was descended from this Daniel Livingston formerly a resident of Argyle township, Washington County, New York State just before he settled in Upper Canada in 1784 with other American Loyalists and after the official end of the Revolutionary War between America and Great Britain. I was very excited about learning he was descended from Daniel Livingston. I regret that I did not apparently inform him about the Y DNA project and the fact that no descendant of his ancestor Daniel formerly Donald Livingston veteran of the French and Indian Wars and the Revolutionary War had so far done the Familytreedna test. So indeed in answer to your question no descendant of Daniel has as yet done the Y DNA test much to my regret. I should re-read my discussions with him some years ago, but I am pretty sure that I did mention the option of Y DNA testing.

Not 100 per certain old Daniel was of Islay Argyll origin but you might be interested in the results so far of 3 North American Livingston of southern Argyllshire Isle of Islay origins tested that have proven very interesting and perhaps surprising to some. Over the years I have developed a theory I maintain can be backed up by both history and most importantly by the YDNA results I am seeing so far for known Livingston of Islay, Argyll ancestry which I think to some extent has given my rather new theory some element of credibility.As you may or may not recall I had developed this theory a while back that the original Livingston families of Southern Isle of Islay, in southern Argyllhsire might have actually not been ancestrally descended not from the highland Maclea Livingstones like those who resided in significant numbers in the 1700's and 1800's in Western Argyll but actually instead descended from "another" family group of lowland Livingston families possible from Ayrshire in lowland South Western Scotland that were encouraged to settle in the early 1600's on the Southern Argyllshire Isle of Islay instead of nearby Ulster Ireland where many South Western lowland Presbyterian settlers settled during the historical period in Ireland known as the Plantation period of the early 1600's when hundreds of Presbterian families from South Western lowland scottish were encouraged to populate the six counties of Ulster.

It is known that among those settlers were some Ayrshire families of Livingstons who still very reside in Ulster today. Now what I also found out is nearby Isle of Islay in Southern Argyllshire was also at this time in the early 1600's a settlement point for some families of lowland origins who were part of that organized settlement of presbyterian families of South Western lowland scotland (Ayrshire for example) in Ulster Ireland. Southern Island Islay, Argyle in Kildalton Parish is actual only a relative short boat ride from the Northern Ulster coast where many of the settler settled in the early 1600's So it seems quite likely that some lowland Livington's not related to highland Macleas who later adopted the name Livingston settled in Southern Islay Argyll as early the early 1600's and time lowland families by the hundred into nearby Ulster Ireland in the North of Ireland. The names of familes in the 1800's residing in Southen Islay in fact give away their earlier lowland Scottish origins I also noticed. Some of them are very much not of old highland Argyllshire families but clearly of earlier lowland Scottish origins. Yet another clue that I might be on to something here. It may surprise to some also to learn that familes with name Livingston resided in South Western Scotland in the 1500s and 1600's in places like Ayrshire County. There were a number of old Livington family in Ayrshire in that time and continued to be in the 1800's and probably are some now. In the future hopefully some Ayrshire Livingstons who believe their Livingston families have a long history in the Lowland County of Ayrshire should most definitely do the Y DNA test if they are interested as if add more credibility to my theory if right Livingston family were found in Ayrhshire , Scotland that that there were and are Ayrshire Livingstons who share a similar Y DNA result with the 3 North American Livingtons of Islay Argyll Livingston ancestry who don't match with the Bachuil Livingstone and his Lismore/Appin Y DNA match or the large Maclea Livingstone mostly Mull and Morvern Parish, Argyll Parker Livingston Y DNA match group that my cousin and a descendant of famous Donald Livingston of Savary, Morvern brother Hugh .

Hugh Livingston was neighbour of his brother Donald Livingston 1728-1816 the famous Argyllshire Jacobite of the Appin Regiment who saved the Appin Banner from battlefield of Culloden in 1746 and returned to Appin Stuarts in Argyllshire by avoiding capture by the Duke of Cumberland's forces on the battlefield after Bonnie Prince Charlie defeat. My own Morvern Livingston ancestor Miles Livingston of Morvern is apparently related according to y DNA result somehow with Donald and his brother Hugh's old Savary Livingston family. Years later in the 1800's elderly kin neices and a nephew of old Donald Livingstone of Savary stated they had been told back in Morvern that Donald's Livingston's Maclea ancestors were originally from nearby Achnacree Argyllshire and all related to Maclea of Achnacree. Not all scholars agree that these Achnacree Macleas shared paternal blood ties with the old nearby Bachuil Mcleas and the Y DNA tests suggest there could be some truth to notion that the Bachuil Lismore and Appin area Mcleas and the nearby Achnacree Macleas that later settled in Morvern in 1600 were not of the same blood line. The Y DNA test results if look at famiy history the matches of both those matching with the Bachuil Livingston Lismore and Appin Maclea Livingston match group and the over 25 Livingston matches that are listed on the second Maclea Livingstone match group of descendant of Western Argyllshire Livingstons known as the Parker Livingston match group one can certainly seems the possibility that the two match groups represent two ancient Maclea Argyllshire blood lines within one united Clan group. Livingstons of matching with both the Bachil Livingstone and over 25 matching Livingston tested with the Parker Livingston group all had ancestor in the Western Argyllshire parishes who considered themselves in the 17th and 18th century as Clan Maclea Livingstone.

In many cases we know most of their family histories in the 18th and 19th centuries in Argyllshire so there is little doubt what we have as result of Y DNA testing is discovered the two main bloodlines of 18th and 19th Century Western Argyllshire that we find mentioned in the Argyllshire Parish records from time and from the later 19th century census records. I have watched the test results unfold since 2005 of Livingstons who claim Western Argyllshire origins often with credible documentation and some family history and in almost every case they matched up mostly with the Parker Livingston group and sometimes with Bachuil Livingston Y DNA match group. Why so many over 25 are matching with the Parker Livingston group mostly of Livingstons of Mull and Argyll origin I really don't know. But there is no a pretty large group of Livingstons matching with the Parker Livingston well over 25 at my last count. And this happened randomly. I did over the years encourage some Argyllshire Livingstons to do the test but in no way have my efforts somehow manipulated the results as I once of accused of doing Which was ridiculous because people have over years many who have never talked me have found out about family treedna and for some reason most those Livingstons of known Western Argyllshire match with this Parker Livingston group. I know that when Clan Livingston first got involved with the Y DNA project i was told to expect a certain outcome and that was somehow all of the Livingstons would be of one bloodline which I thought at the time somewhat unlikely and I took some flak for stating I did not think that to be the outcome but the Y DNA results of numerous Livingstons tested have proven me to be correct. This Parker Livingston large group is somewhat surprising but I can tell you watching it grow all I know is almost every time a Livingston contacts me about family research and is of Western Argyllshire ancestry and agrees to do a Y DNA they almost always match with this Parker Livingston Y DNA match which my Livingston cousin who I had tested I think in 2006 was also a match with. And to my thinking those in the Bachuil Livingston Lismore and Appin Y DNA match group and this largely Mull and Morvern and other Parishes Maclea Livingston Parker Livingston Y DNA match represent the two main ancient Maclea bloodline that make up those who are descended from the old ancestors in Western Argyllhisre of what we call Western Argyllshire Clan Maclea Livingstone. I think the Y DNA test has revealed the true nature of the genetics behind those of 18th and 19th century Western Argyllshire Clan Livingston. Two main blood lines not one I would wager based on following the Y DNA test results making up Y DNA test two main Y DNA match groups connected to the Western Argyllshire Clan Maclea Livingstone in my opinion.

Anyways my theoryis that the Ayrshire Livngstons settled in the early 1600's in Southern Islay Argyll instead of Ulster Ireland and are not in way related to the highland Macleas of Western Argyll mostly interestingly may possibly be confirmed by Y DNA testing of three Livingstons of known Island of Islay Argyll ancestry. One family settled in North Carolina while another settled in Ontario Canada in the 1800's and a three of their descendant did the YDNA to my luck and sure enough they are not match with either the Maclea Livingstone Bachuil Livingtone Y DNA match group or with the second more common Western Argyllshire Y DNA match group the Maclea Livingstone Parker Livingston Y DNA match which now has over 25 Livingston matches all of Western Argyllshire ancestry with two or three of neighbouring highland Perthshire but matching with those who resided in Western Argyllshire so it is assumed their families migrated from Western Argyllshire to settle in neibhbouring highland county of Perthshire sometime in the 1700's. Anyways most important to my theory that the Islay Livingstons particularly those who resided in the early 1700's and well before that in Kildalton and other parishes in Southern Islay Argyll are actually Livingston from an old Livingstone family from lowland South Western Scotland example Ayrshire who settled in the 1600' in Southern Islay Argyll is the Y DNA test of LIvngstons of known Islay Argyll Livingston ancestry that show than none so far tested match with the most prevalent Y DNA test match groups of Livingstons of known Western Argyll Maclea Livingstone ancestry. Some Maclea Livingstones of Western Argyll eg. Mull and Morvern origins may have later actually later also settled on the island of Islay but clearly the Livingstons who clearly don't have most common Y DNA matches of those Matching with the Baron Livingstone's Bachui Livingstone Match group and the second most common and largest Y DNA Match of Maclea Livingstones also of Western Argyllshire ancestry the Parker Livingston group are those Argyllshire Livingstons that sure enough originated in Islay Argyll. I suspected as mention they might be Maclea Livingstones but a lowland Livington family and Y DNA testing so far of three Livingston dscendants of Islay Argyll Livingtons by family tree Y DNA shows they are not quite matching with the majority of highland Maclea Livingstones descended from Lismore/Appin Maclea Livingstone families or from Macleas Livingston known to descended nearby Mull and Morvern Ardnamuchan etc. Western Argyllshire.

So my theory that the Livingstons of Southern Islay Argyll are lowland Livingstons who settle there in the early 1600's and not Maclea Livingstones can apparently be somewhat supported to some degree at this moment in time by the current Y DNA results for all of the Livingstons of known Island of Islay Southern Argyllshire that were Y DNA tested with Familytreedna some years ago. Also there is another significant discovery on my part looking the Livingston matches of this 3 Livingstons tested of Isle of Islay Southern Argyllshire origin that these Islay Livingstons that were test have a close matches sure enough with several Livingstons also tested by familytreedn who state sure enough descended from a Livingston that settled in the 1600's in nearby Ulster Ireland. In America and Canada they would be referred as being Scotch Irish Livingstons. If you look a map Southern Argyllshire and the Island of Islay it would become immediately clear just how very close the Northern coast of Ulster Ireland is to Isle of Islay in Southern Argyllshire.

As we discussed some time ago a number of Livingston famllies not just one family group named Livingston settled early in the 1700's in America and later in Canada when the British opened that up to Settlement. I myself as I know you do have some Scotch Irish ancestors and I do as well mostly on my Mom side. My Father is odd mixture of German, but mostly highland Scottish with some early 17th century colonial America English, Swedish and Dutch. Believe it or not Sweden briefly had a colony in America in the mid 1600's until the Dutch told the Swedish Governor that the Dutch were forcing them out. The Dutch however many of the rank and file Swedish settlers to stay providing they caused not trouble to them. My ancestor Nicholas Utter whose descendant married my great great great grandfather Stephen Clink decided to remain and once were Dutch were succeeded by the English he settled in Rhode Island and Connecticut and married a Colonial American of English origin and his family over the years became more English American than Swedish. My Mother was almost entirely of Scotch Irish origin related to number Ulster familes who settled from Scotland in the 1600's and I was doing quite a bit of Scotch Irish research prior to focus on my Morvern Parish Argyll Livingstone origin and working with the Forum starting back in 2004 when first discovered that their a Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum. And here I am now.

And it is actually well documented that there were Livingston familes in South Western Scotland that ended up settling in Ulster Ireland among the many Presbyterian Scot families of lowland South Western Scotland that were encouraged to settle in the 1600's. Some of their descendants most interestedly with the familytreedna testing are matching with these three Canadian and American Livingstons of know Islay Southern Argyllshire ancestry and I do not that a coincidence and am not surprised then that the Livingstons of Islay Argyll origins most significantly are not match with Baron Livingston Lismore and Appin Y DNA match group and with my own Livingston cousin's other main Maclea Livingstone Western Argyllshire Y DNA match group consisting largely of LLivingsstons of Mull and Morvern Argyll ancestry. It all to me adds up to one thing my theory could be correct that some Islay Argyll Livingstons were probably not Macleas as the early 1700's. The familytreedna results for Livingstons worldwide has in fact indicated that a good number of Livingston families out there do not share Y DNA with either the Bachil Livingstones or with my Livingston ancestors of Maclea Livingston Western Argyllshire Parker Livingston so for the most part they must be lowland Livingstons rooted in the Lowland and not any of the old Western Argyll Maclea branches that not until the mid 1700's in the Argyllshire parish records appear for the first time not as Macleas or Mconleas but with the lowland famiy name of Livingstone or Livingstone. The Y DNA results for the Livingstons of Southern Islay are definitely not that of the ancient Macleas who much later adopted the name Livingston according to surviving Argyll records.

This may seem like long rambling message but while that Livingston descendant of Daniel Livingston was not tested other Livingston of Islay Argyll origin have been tested. A number of Daniel Livingston researcher have assume him to born in Islay but he does not say that in his later Upper Canada land petiions not does his elder son John Livingston when he talks bout his fathers origins in his Upper Canada land petitions. So I don't know for certain that he was born in islay but it is possible I only know is of highland origin and from Argyllshire originally and that is it. But if he or Islay origins then these earlier Islay Argyll Livingstons tested with YDNA could prove to be helpful if I ever am able to get a descendant of Daniel tested with any luck in the future. Thank you so much for asking. It was an excellent question. I wonder if I could somehow get in touch with the Livingston that contacted the forum some years ago a descendant of Daniel Livingston.

Unfortunately as you can imagine I have a Mull argyllshire Maclea Livingstone express interest in the YDNA test but he reluctantly decided to put off for another time perhaps and he and like many of us these days in particular are seeing the cost of living go up and we have to spend wisely. Definitely during the current period there has been from what I can see less interest among Livingstons out there in Y DNA testing. But I always hold out hope of more Livingstons wanting to do the YDNA test in the future. The best time for that I think was also when he more frequent Livingstons visiting the forum. There is of course ancestry.com but to my way thinking if I was a Livingston researcher I would utilize both vast resources of ancestry.com and Scotlands people for searching for record and such pertaining to their Livingston ancestors but also to take advantage the forum where they may find some previous information posted on their Livingston ancestor and where I can be of assistance in sharing my experienced knowledge regarding numerous Livingston families of the 18th and 19th centuries. Most of time I have proven to be of help to Livingston researchers coming here with inquiries and always feel bad when I am unable to do so. Usually that turns out to be missing or a lack of family records. There is of course nothing I can do about and I totally realize how frustrating that it is for Livingston researchers. I know that you like many others wish you could discover more about the origins of your Livingston ancestor and particularly his ancestors in Scotland.

I recall some years ago I was contacted by a Livingston in North Carolina whose ancestor settled in North Carolina in the 1790's from Scotland and that was about all he knew about that ancestor. There was no family information passed down about where in came from. So what suggested back then is that he consider doing the YDNA test which he did and it matched with the Parker Livingston Y DNA match group consisting of a number of Livingstons of Mull and neighbouring Morvern, Argyll ancestry and others of neighbouring parishes in Western Argyll so at least I think we could confirm he shared ancestral origin with other Livingstons in apparently Western Argyllshire Maclea Livingstone group. We could not say where in Western Argyllshire but by doing the test at least I could tell him that his Livingston ancestor that settled in North Carolina was sure connected to Western Argyllshire of some parish in that part of Highland Scotland. Very little doubt of that based on his closest Livingston matches wit the YDNA test. So I hope my suggestion of doing the YDNA test was of some help to him. When in doubt of your Livingston ancestral origins and with no helpful records pointing to where they came from the Y DNA test might at least prove to be of some help in sheding light to the possible origins. No guarantee but worth a try I think in such situations where the family origins in Scotland are a mystery.

It has greatly helped that many of those tested often have some records and history to give us insight to their family origin. It does help with Y DNA results to get a sense of the likely origins of the Livingstons in a particular Y DNA match group. I really don't think I could very far in my research of those Livingstons tested if some of them did not have info regarding their origins. It also is help with those who match with them who are not so fortunate to have some paper trail of records containing information on their family origins in Scotland and wherever they lived after that in the past.

P.S. Apologies to you for the excessive length of this response it is regrettably a bad habit I cannot break.


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