My Livingston(e) Line

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kaye and Ginger,


THere were so many Livingstones/Livingstons that settled in Australia and New Zealand during the 1830's 1840's and 1850's and I am hoping that in the future we can work with you Kaye and others to link these families with their highland ancestors recorded in Scottish census and parish records. I am in the long process of expanding the current genealogy committee to eventually include a variety of Livingstons and Mcleas and we could certainly use someone with knowledge of a New Zealand Livingston. Any help or advice on New Zealand Livingston genealogy would be greatly appreciately Kaye by our society. I have worked with a few Australian Livingstons on genealogy but New Zealand is new to me.
regards,

Donald

[Kaye Saunders]

Hi Donald

That’s why I’m trying to work things out and get proof.

What I have is:

Donald Livingstone, born 3 May 1863, High Church District of Glasgow - birth certificate says he is the son of Dugald Livingston, stone dresser and Catherine Livingston, maiden name McDonald who were married 28 Nov 1861 in Cumlodden. Can send copy of certificate if you would like.

From the marriage certificate – Cumlodden parish
Dugald Livingston, stone dresser, 24, son of Donald Livingston, quarrier and Catherine, maiden name McDonald, married Catherine McDonald, 18, daughter of John McDonald, quarrier and Mary McDonald, maiden name McDonald on 28 Nov 1861 at Crarae

so the Donald Livingstone, born 3 May 1863 is the grandson of Donald and Catherine, not Donald and Ann.

While I have him born about 1835, that is taken as an estimate from the first two censuses where he is 6 and 16, but he ages well and appears to get younger as the years go by, until the last one – ages in the census are:

1841 – Laroch – 6
1851 – East Laroch – 16
1861 – Cumlodden – 24
1871 – Bonaw Quarry, Ardchattan – 33
1881 – Kenacraig, Ardchattan – 43
1891 – Kenacraig, Ardchattan – 55

Dugald’s death certificate states that he was a stone dresser (journeyman), widower of Catherine McDonald, and the son of Donald Livingstone, quarryman, deceased and Catherine McDonald, deceased. He died at 34 Cornwall Street, Govan aged 64 on 14th April 1899 – just down the road from his son Charles who lived at 49 Cornwall Street.

So, what we need to do now is to actually prove that Ginger’s Donald is actually the Donald born in Glasgow to Dugald and Catherine on 3 May 1863, or he is another one.

Cheers
Kaye

[Kaye Saunders]

THere were so many Livingstones/Livingstons that settled in Australia and New Zealand during the 1830's 1840's and 1850's and I am hoping that in the future we can work with you Kaye and others to link these families with their highland ancestors recorded in Scottish census and parish records. I am in the long process of expanding the current genealogy committee to eventually include a variety of Livingstons and Mcleas and we could certainly use someone with knowledge of a New Zealand Livingston. Any help or advice on New Zealand Livingston genealogy would be greatly appreciately Kaye by our society. I have worked with a few Australian Livingstons on genealogy but New Zealand is new to me.

I've long wanted to get the Livingstones sorted out in Ballachulish and never found the time to concentrate on it. I am a member of the NZ (or is it Australasia) branch of the Clan and would love to be able to help other members. I'm happy to help with any NZ research at all as well.

Kaye

[Canadian Livingstone]

HI Kaye,

Well it looks we are in sync from 1861 to 1891. We have the right Dougald and Catharine at Ardchattan with Donald born 1863 in Glasgow. Going back to 1861 and check that info again.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kaye,

You are correct. I did not have the original records but I just looked at them and it is quite as you say in 1861 marriage record from Cumlodden Parish, Argyll that Dugald Livingstons parents were Donald Livingston and Catharine McDonald so my information on Gingers family prior to Dugald is an error. Simply put it is I who had the wrong Dugald. Clearly this Dugald's age is different in the 1841 and 1851 census which threw me off. Imagine two census records throwing me off. The good news is that everything from 1861 onwards is the same I just got thrown for a loop with another Donald Livingston b.1802 and his wife Ann Stewart in the 1841 and 1851
census who clearly from Dugald and Catharines 1861 marriage is not their parents.
I will backtrack on that right now.
Sorry about that Kaye and Ginger.

[Kaye Saunders]

Thanks Donald. That is what this type of forum is for. But what we need to do now is to get the actual proof that Donald who arrived in Georgia, married and had children, and is Ginger's ancestor was actually the one born on 3 May 1863 to Dugald and Catharine. So Ginger, did the death certificate give his date of birth or his parents, or is that information on his marriage certificate, or on anything else that you have found?

Hoping you do and I can welcome you to our part of the clan and send you info and copies of certificates etc.

Cheers
Kaye

[Canadian Livingstone]

Updated Info on Ginger's Ballachulish Family Line (Corrected 1841 and 1851 Census record info) (Thanks to Kaye)
Ginger please note changes in 1841 and 1851 Census information. Dugald's parents are now Donald Livingston b.abt. 1811 and his wife Catharine McDonald born abt. 1816 both born at Ballachulish. (This is only major change to the family ancestral line)

1841 Census Argyllshire
Duror
Laroch /Ballachulish
Donald Livingston age 30 quarrier Laroch/Ballachulish born abt. 1811 at Laroch/Ballachulish (died before 1846)
Catharine Livingston age 25 (Catharine McDonald of Ballachulish daughter of John and Mary McDonald) died 1846 buried St. Johns CHurch, Ballachuilish
Dugald age 6 (b. abt. 1835 in this census) (your ancestor)
Peter age 4
Janet age 2 (also known as Jessie born May 6, 1839 (baptised May 11, 1839 at St. Johns Episcopalian Church Ballachulish)

1851 Census Argyllshire
East Laroch/Ballachulish
Charles Livingston age 33 laborer (See St. Johns Ballachulish church records) (Dugald's Uncle and AUnt)
Dorothey age 34 his wife
Dugald age 8 scholar
Mary age 3 daughter
Donald age 16 laborer ? Should this have been Dougald (did anyone check the original census records?)
Janet age 12 neice (Kaye's ancestor)
(Dugald's Uncle and AUnt Charles Livingston and Dorothy McColl of Laroch were married March 16, 1842 St. Johns, Ballachulish)

1861 Scottish Census Argyllshire
Furnace, Cumlodden Parish, Argyll
Dugald Livingston age 24 born Ballachulish, Argyll Scotland occupation Stone dresser b. abt. 1837

Dugald Livingston and Catharine McDonald married November 28,1861 Cumlodden Parish, Argyll
Parents of Dugald: Donald Livingston and Catharine McDonald of Ballachulish
Parents of Catharine: John and Mary McDonald of Ballachulish

Son Donald born May 3,1863 in Glasgow, Lanarkshire to Dugald Livingston and Catharine McDonald
birth record also mentions that parents were married November 28th, 1861 Cumlodden Parish, Argyll


1871 Census Argyllshire
Bonawe
Dugald Livingston age 33 stone dresser b. abt. 1838 Ballachulish residence Bonawe Quarry Cottage No. 8
Catharina age 27
Donald age 7 b. Glasgow
John age 5 b. Ballachulish
Charles age 2 b. Ballachulish
Duncan age 6 months

1881 Census Argyllshire
Ardchattan Parish,kenacraig Argyll, Scotland
Dugald age 43 born Ballachulish occupation: Stone Dresser (born abt. 1838)
Catharine age 37 born Ballachulish (died March 14,1890) Ardchattan
Donald age 17 Stone Dresser born Glasgow Lanarkshire
Charles age 12 born Ardchattan Parish
Duncan age 10 b. Ardchattan Parish
Dugald age 7 b. Ardchattan Parish
Catharine age5 b. Ardchattan Parish
James age 3 b. Ardchattan Parish
Mary age 9 months b. Ardchattan Parish

Dugald's wife Catharine died March 14,1890 at Ardchattan Parish

1891 Census Argyllshire
Ardchattan Parish, Kenacraig
Dugald Livingston age 52 b. abt. 1839 Ballachulish
Duncan age 20 b. Ardchattan
Catharine age 15 b.Ardchattan
James age 8 b. Ardchattan


Kaye of New Zealand states that Janet (Jessie) Livingston her ancestor was a sister of your ancestor Dugald Livingston. As I saying to Kaye the ages of Dugald in many of the census records are all over the place which is probably why I got a bit confused in the first place.

[beadmom]

Grandpa Donald's death certificate only says father's name "Livingston" born in Scotland. There is no maternal info. It was filed out by Mary Lowe Livingston. The (e) is not on the certificate on anyone's name including Mary's signature....but is on their headstone.

I don't have a marriage certificate. I found the records that they were married 22 Dec 1891 Fulton,GA in the LDS database recently posted by Jewel.

I know enough of Grandpa Donald and Grandma Mary's history to know for certain that the John William Livingston(e) Sr. (Grandpa Jack) and the rest of the kids listed in the 1900 Colorado Census are most definitely mine and the children of Donald Livingstone that came over from Scotland and married Mary Lowe. I met Aunt Flo (Flora) and knew Aunt Kate very, very well. Grandpa John (alive) knew Grandma Mary.

My immediate Grandpa John William Livingston Jr. 's birth certificate says his father was born in Lothian,GA (and also has the (e) on it.)
I have Aunt Kate's college diploma and it also has the (e)

Hope this all helps...and I need to go do some trimming and grafting to my family tree

Ginger

[beadmom]

OH AND YES... The death certificate DOES give his date of birth as May 3, 1863.

Ginger

[Kaye Saunders]

OH AND YES... The death certificate DOES give his date of birth as May 3, 1863.

Ginger

Well, welcome to our part of the family - that's great. I can send you the family of Donald's parents etc, and the next one up. Do you want it as a printout, or would you like a gedcom? I can send you a copy of the certificates I have too if you want those.

Next time I'm down in Riverton - most likely a week away, I'll consult the book that was written on Charles Livingstone's family out here in NZ and remind myself about what it has about the family back in Scotland. I'll also check and see about Janet and Ria who were still living in Ballachulish when I was over there and see if they're still around.

Now I saw something about a database of Livingstones in a message somewhere on the board - is there one we can consult, or is it something that's awaiting completion. If there is one how do we submit information to it as I have quite a bit that may some day be of use to someone else.

Kaye

(Edited to remove email address)