Tips for researching around 1750-1800

[Andrew Lancaster]

Donald

I am guessing Alan is not checking in on the forum frequently, so just to confirm a few things:

1. Yes, Alan is a close match to the Bachuil line, and not the Dr Livingstone line.
2. Concerning Dr Livingstone's uncle John, see this old posting on the old forum by Rob: http://www.clanmclea.co.uk/forum/show-m ... asp?ID=356
3. Concerning Alan's genealogy, it was discussed at length on the Yahoo group, but a while back now. I think it starts at message number 507.

Hope this helps.
Best Regards
Andrew

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Andrew,

I think from what I have seen that this is a different family line than he has researched but this was the only Duncan livington born abt. 1852/1853 in Tobermory that was living in Grennock, Renfrewshire circa 1900. If he was to confirm the full names of his great grandparents who resided at Greenock circa 1900 that would be helpful. Some of the persons in the 1901 Census were probably still living in the 1950's and 1960's so someone in his family should be able to confirm if this Duncan Livingston and Flora McInnes family is the right one probably. I have taken this family back a few generations but there is no point until we determine if this is the Duncan Livingston family of his in the 1901 Census of Greenock, Renfrewshire then I can trace and prove the other previous generations info I have found. Then prove the easy stuff first. I also found a marriage record for Duncan Livingston b.1852 and his wife Flora McInnes. They were married at Greenock but briefly returned to Tobermory then back to Greenock. Some of their children were born at Greenock and some at Tobermory interestingly enough. Even if this is not Allans family at least I seem to have done a family tree for this faamily and perhaps one of their descendant will see what I have done sometime or another. Anyways I am thinking that Allan or his father must have some idea who their family that lived at Greenock circa 1900 was and provide me with some detail from this period. I am not sure how to access that history you mentioned but I will try.
Thanks for that.
regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

BTW, I know of a MacLea family from Greenock. Perhaps if we could test them and there was common ancestry in Greenock, they would match!

Kyle=

[AGLivingstone]

Hi Allan,
I think you have come up with a different family line than this but this was only Duncan Livingston family of Tobermory origin I found at Greenock circa 1900.
This is the family line of the son of Duncan Livingston born 1852 at Tobermory Boilermaker of Greenock Renfrewshire circa 1891, 1901 Greenock East, Renfrewshire THis is the only Duncan Livingston b.abt. 1852 or 1853 from Tobermory living at Greenock during the 1891 and 1901 period.
Family line of the Tobermory later Greenock Duncan Livingston family according to the Records.
1.Duncan Livingston born abt.1882 at Tobermory, Mull, Argylshire but grew up at Greenock Renfrewshire
2. Duncan Livingston b.1852 at Tobermory married Flora McInnes in 1874 at Greenock,Renfrewshire
3. Archibald born. abt. 1826 at Tobemory married Catharine McLaughlin at Tobermory January 6,1852 Catharine widow lived at Breadlebane st. 1861 census with son Duncan born 1852/1853
4. Hugh Livingston born abt. 1796 living at Tobermory married Ann Livingston before 1826? lived at Breadlebane Street according to 1841 Census with son Archibald age 15 b.1826
5. Parents of Hugh Livingston b.abt. 1796 at Tobermory? Mull not known as yet

So this is the only Duncan Livingston I could find at Greenock born around 1852/1853 Tobermory that had a son Duncan as well and was born at Tobermory abt. 1882
Duncan Livingston boilermaker and Flora MacInnes are living at 13 Lauriston Street Greenock East in the 1901 Census Flora MacInnes was born abt. 1853
Their family then was:
John born abt. 1881 at Tobermory
Duncan born abt. 1882 at Tobermory (apprentice Boilermaker)
Chistina born abt. 1883 at Greenock
John born abt. 1884 at Greenock
Annie born abt. 1885 at Greenock
Donald born abt 1890 at Greenock
Sarah born abt. 1896 at Greenock
The eldest children not living at home in 1901 Catharine born 1877 at Greenock and Mary b.1878 at Greenock. Duncan and Flora apparently were married at Greenock and returned to Tobemory and then back to Greenock as the birth locations of their children show. So there little doubt this family has a Tobermory and Greenock connection

regards,

Donald

Hi Donald, Thanks for the work here.

I have Hugh Livingstone 1874 http://www.livingstonesofmorvern.org.uk ... e1874.html on the 1881 census living with his grandparents, of which his grandfather is not his bloodline. He also lives next door to his father Duncan.

I have Duncan Livingstone 1853 - http://www.livingstonesofmorvern.org.uk ... e1853.html On his marriage certificate it mentiones his father as Hugh, deceased with a profession as a farmer.

The Hugh I have 1808 - http://www.livingstonesofmorvern.org.uk ... e1811.html in the 1841 census he is listed as being a farmer, with his mother in the house hold - Catherine. Are you saying this link may be incorrect?

[AGLivingstone]

Hi Andrew,

I think from what I have seen that this is a different family line than he has researched but this was the only Duncan livington born abt. 1852/1853 in Tobermory that was living in Grennock, Renfrewshire circa 1900. If he was to confirm the full names of his great grandparents who resided at Greenock circa 1900 that would be helpful. Some of the persons in the 1901 Census were probably still living in the 1950's and 1960's so someone in his family should be able to confirm if this Duncan Livingston and Flora McInnes family is the right one probably. I have taken this family back a few generations but there is no point until we determine if this is the Duncan Livingston family of his in the 1901 Census of Greenock, Renfrewshire then I can trace and prove the other previous generations info I have found. Then prove the easy stuff first. I also found a marriage record for Duncan Livingston b.1852 and his wife Flora McInnes. They were married at Greenock but briefly returned to Tobermory then back to Greenock. Some of their children were born at Greenock and some at Tobermory interestingly enough. Even if this is not Allans family at least I seem to have done a family tree for this faamily and perhaps one of their descendant will see what I have done sometime or another. Anyways I am thinking that Allan or his father must have some idea who their family that lived at Greenock circa 1900 was and provide me with some detail from this period. I am not sure how to access that history you mentioned but I will try.
Thanks for that.
regards,

Donald

Hi Donald,
My grandfathers Parents worked in Greenock, and his brother Angus is still alive today in greenock. Hugh Livingstone was their father - http://www.livingstonesofmorvern.org.uk ... e1874.html, and I recently managed to locate his birth certificate which is linked on the previous URL. I have his father living next door to him in the 1874 census http://www.livingstonesofmorvern.org.uk ... e1853.html. What other information would you require. I will have my Aunt look in on the thread, as she obviously has more details on her father and grandparents. Or if you want anything more personal or specific, I can visit Angus of whom I have only met once and it was due to doing work on this tree. He ended up living 5 minutes from my current employment!

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Allan,
I see the errors of my ways. I had located the right Duncan Livingston born Tobermory abt. 1853 on 13 Lauriston Street Boilermaker and his wife Flora McInnes but when I checked Duncan Livingstons in Tobermory born around 1853 I found a Duncan Livingston born 1852 son of Archibald Livingston and Catharine McLaughlin and followed that Ancestral Tobermory line. I did notice your Duncan son of widow Mary Livingston in the 1861 Census at Tobermory but went with the other one which I should not have.

Also I dont think I understood which of son of Duncan and Flora of Greenock you descend from. If I understand correctly it is son Hugh b. 1875 you are descended from not his son Duncan b.1882. So I actually found the right family in Greenock but had to sort things out a bit. Ok i have deleted in my original message the other families i had so as not to confuse any one further and left the correct portion of my earlier research.

So if I understand correctly your Livingston family line is
1. Hugh Livingston b.1875
2. Duncan Livingston b.1853 Tobermory and FLora McInness
3. Hugh Livingston b. 1811 and Mary McDonald

No I agree that Hugh Livingston single farmer born abt. 1811 residing at Lephen, Kilninian and Kilmore, Mull in 1841 is a logical candidate for Duncan's father. I assume Hugh and Mary were married a year or two before daughter Mary b.abt.1849 was born and that Hugh died sometime between 1853 and 1861.

Hugh Livingston baptismal records Kilninian and Kilmore in Tobermory area
Hugh Levingston baptised o7 Feb. 1815 parents John Levingston and Flora McInnes Tobermory
Hugh Levingston baptised o2 March 1813 parents John Levingston and Ann MacDougall Tobermory
Hugh Levingston baptised 02 April 1809 parents Donald Levingston and Christian McDonald Lanane?

regards,

Donald

[AGLivingstone]

Hi Allan,
I see the errors of my ways. I had located the right Duncan Livingston born Tobermory abt. 1853 on 13 Lauriston Street Boilermaker and his wife Flora McInnes but when I checked Duncan Livingstons in Tobermory born around 1853 I found a Duncan Livingston born 1852 son of Archibald Livingston and Catharine McLaughlin and followed that Ancestral Tobermory line. I did notice your Duncan son of widow Mary Livingston in the 1861 Census at Tobermory but went with the other one which I should not have.

Also I dont think I understood which of son of Duncan and Flora of Greenock you descend from. If I understand correctly it is son Hugh b. 1875 you are descended from not his son Duncan b.1882. So I actually found the right family in Greenock but had to sort things out a bit. Ok i have deleted in my original message the other families i had so as not to confuse any one further and left the correct portion of my earlier research.

So if I understand correctly your Livingston family line is
1. Hugh Livingston b.1875
2. Duncan Livingston b.1853 Tobermory and FLora McInness
3. Hugh Livingston b. 1811 and Mary McDonald

No I agree that Hugh Livingston single farmer born abt. 1811 residing at Lephen, Kilninian and Kilmore, Mull in 1841 is a logical candidate for Duncan's father. I assume Hugh and Mary were married a year or two before daughter Mary b.abt.1849 was born and that Hugh died sometime between 1853 and 1861.

Hugh Livingston baptismal records Kilninian and Kilmore in Tobermory area
Hugh Levingston baptised o7 Feb. 1815 parents John Levingston and Flora McInnes Tobermory
Hugh Levingston baptised o2 March 1813 parents John Levingston and Ann MacDougall Tobermory
Hugh Levingston baptised 02 April 1809 parents Donald Levingston and Christian McDonald Lanane?

regards,

Donald

Looking for the correct hugh was a quite a bit of work, and all the time the evidence was staring me in the face in the later census information as he lived with his brother and his sister. I first thought he was another hugh at 1811, but the correct one I think is born around 1808. His christening record is on this link http://www.livingstonesofmorvern.org.uk ... e1811.html. This shows his parents as Donald Levingston, and Catharine McDonald. Notice in all the census information they spell Catharines name different each time. I found no other link to his father Donald via this route, but recently found Hughs brother Duncans Death Certificate. - http://www.livingstonesofmorvern.org.uk ... e1778.html

I have attached some work by the late Robert Livingstone who looked at this family while speaking to someone else who is decended from Hughs Sister. Robert missed some of the family and states that Duncan was killed at Waterloo. I have found no proof of this and he had 2 kids christened after 1815. I bought a book on the deaths at waterloo and there is no mention of Duncan being killed there. I have been unable to find robert in later census, so its likely he died soon after the birth of his last child. It looks like Hugh looked after the farm after his death, and most of the family including his mother and his sisters husband lived with him.

Other than the death certificate and chritening records, I have been unable to find any information in his father Duncan (c1778).

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Allan,
Thank-you for your response. You have done some incredibly meticulous research on Hugh his father Duncan and family and I love the scanned documents. There are however a few updates I should tell you that affects a portion of your research somewhat, in particular that of the Dr. Livingston connection. I think it important that I share this with you as much as I regret telling you this.

The late Rob Livingston requested that we find a relative of Dr. David Livingstone for our DNA Project. As Dr. Livingstone has no male descendants with the name Livingston who had the male Livingstone Y Chromosome, I looked for a descendant of his older brother John Livingstone (1811-1899) who I knew from Stanley's 1874 book had lived in Listowel, Ontario, Canada. THe Listowel Archivist helped me to locate a documented great-grandson of John who some ten years earlier had erected a new cemetery stone for his great grandfather at Listowel cemetery and he kindly donated a sample of his DNA for the Project. His line is Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison, Neil Livingston and Agnes Hunter, John Livingston and Sarah Mackenzie, John Livingston Jr. Dr. Henry Livington of Listowel and David Livingston. I presented this info to the Clan with documented evidence of David's ancestry. In this case his families connection to Dr Livingston was already documented and published.

Based on the test results I am sorry to say you are not matching at all with the Dr. Livingstone family DNA however I was excited to learn that you are a close match to the Bachuil Livingstones from the Island of Lismore. So there is both bad news and some good news. No doubt at the time if you spoke with Rob a few years ago you may have understood you might be related to both families but this is not the case on the basis of these later test results.

Given this I would like to propose that we explore together other possible ancestral origins for Duncan's father Hugh of Tobermory other than Dr. Livingstone's kin.

regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

This has the potential to lead in an even better direction--a connection to the Chiefly family from some unknown son. Because they were a well-known family (compared to mine, say), the existence of a document to tie in with the DNA is a little more likely. If you two put your heads together, there may be a real revelation!

Kyle=

[AGLivingstone]

Hi Allan,
Thank-you for your response. You have done some incredibly meticulous research on Hugh his father Duncan and family and I love the scanned documents. There are however a few updates I should tell you that affects a portion of your research somewhat, in particular that of the Dr. Livingston connection. I think it important that I share this with you as much as I regret telling you this.

The late Rob Livingston requested that we find a relative of Dr. David Livingstone for our DNA Project. As Dr. Livingstone has no male descendants with the name Livingston who had the male Livingstone Y Chromosome, I looked for a descendant of his older brother John Livingstone (1811-1899) who I knew from Stanley's 1874 book had lived in Listowel, Ontario, Canada. THe Listowel Archivist helped me to locate a documented great-grandson of John who some ten years earlier had erected a new cemetery stone for his great grandfather at Listowel cemetery and he kindly donated a sample of his DNA for the Project. His line is Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison, Neil Livingston and Agnes Hunter, John Livingston and Sarah Mackenzie, John Livingston Jr. Dr. Henry Livington of Listowel and David Livingston. I presented this info to the Clan with documented evidence of David's ancestry. In this case his families connection to Dr Livingston was already documented and published.

Based on the test results I am sorry to say you are not matching at all with the Dr. Livingstone family DNA however I was excited to learn that you are a close match to the Bachuil Livingstones from the Island of Lismore. So there is both bad news and some good news. No doubt at the time if you spoke with Rob a few years ago you may have understood you might be related to both families but this is not the case on the basis of these later test results.

Given this I would like to propose that we explore together other possible ancestral origins for Duncan's father Hugh of Tobermory other than Dr. Livingstone's kin.

regards,

Donald

You dont have to regret it and reading these forums I had expected with current understanding that this was the case. My grand father had previously talked about a link with Dr Livingstone, but always talked about it being via a brother, uncle or other close relative. This was probably wrong information. I was younger when he died and he never explained where he got this information from, although once he read something or was given information he really did have a photographic memory. Tourists would regularly buy him drinks in exchange for local Morvern history.

I never got the chance to speak to the Late Rob, which is a shame as we have a 25 marker match and certainly seemed to have a passion and skill in searching for information.

I am interested where you search census information etc as you seem to have good resources. Thanks again for you work up until now.