Randomly Acquired Information

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald,

I just came across something that will possibly help eventually show where Angus Livingstone was between 1809 & 1814, if you remember, him & Margaret Hall had no children during this period.

During the above period, the 2nd.Batt., 91st. Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders, were engaged in the Peninsular War, in various areas, they returned to the UK in 1814 & were disbanded. Angus & Margarets next child Duncan was born about Sept. 1814. So the timing could be correct, assuming the battallion returned to the UK early 1814, still looking at dates.

They then had no children between 1824 & 1829, when Jane was born, so, although he would be a bit on the old side, it's possible he was again on military service. If he originally signed on as a boy soldier, at 12 or 14 years old, it might be that he served with the Argylls on three separate occasions. This is purely speculation at present, but if correct, he would definitely qualify a Chelsea Pensioner.

I'll try to contact the Argylls while I'm at home, I don't know if they will have archives going that far back, but no harm in trying,

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
Angus is not listed as a private in a surviving 1794 roll of the 91st Regiment but I agree it seems more likely that he served during that 1809-1814 period of his life. Now if we could just prove that.
About 599 Scots were recruited into the 2nd batallion of the 91st Argyll Regiment between 1807 and 1814 so Angus could have been one. He may have then particpated in the Peninsula war in Spain and Portugual. Being back in Scotland sometime in 1814 he would have missed the Battle of Waterloo in 1815 and may not have seen action with the 91st in the low countries at all or for just a part of that campaign. Perhaps he was wounded as early as 1813 during the Peninsula War, was hospitalized and returned to Scotland. Many of the soldiers became ill by disease apparently.Then again we are only assuming he served in the 91st he could have possibly served with some other British regiment. The 91st Argyll Regiment is however a good guess given that your ancestor was a highland Livingstone and some Livingstones served in this regiment in the 1790's we know so certainly several more at the very least would have been recruited into this regiment during the Peninsula War period. At least we have to start somewhere with a regiment and this one seems to be the most logical starting point. Let me know what you find out.

I could not find him on the Chelsea Pension list or any list I have seen but he may be included in some other list. Certainly that is the period we would assume that he served during the height of the Napoleonic War. Good deduction. Angus and Margaret from the time of their marriage were having a child about every two years up to the year 1809. If they did not have another one until 1814 the war would certainly be a logical explanation for not having children during that period. If not then before he married but I suspect you are correct.We need to determine if Angus might be listed in a muster or pay roll etc if we cant find him in the Chelsea Pension lists. One of the problems is that there may be officer lists and no lists for enlisted men but hopefully that it not the case.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Donald,

Basically clutching at straws now, I think if we ever get more info on Angus, it will be a miracle, probably someone looking for something entirely different, will come up with something someday,

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

Just one of those situations where the luck aspect of it was not there. Surprisingly many of these old records we are looking for survive, but there are always those that are unfortunately missing and it does frustrate our efforts to learn more about your ancestor Angus Livingstone. His brother? Donald Livingston of Ross of Mull did infact have a detailed death record which proved most helpful in determining that his father was likely Neil Livingston of Shiaba or Sebach, Ross of Mull. Unfortunately ANgus seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth after his appearance in the 1841 Census at Uragaig, Colonsay as recorded with the Jura info. Now even we found him in military records it would likely turn out to be bare bones info not providing us with much info but perhaps it would at least provide with some clues as to length of service in the military. I have still not given up that some pay roll or muster roll somewhere in the British Archives might include info on Angus. It might be worth your while contacting a British researcher who have some experience with military records from the Napoleonic War period at the British Archives. I am sure there are some folks who have alot of experience locating highland soldiers from the records and know which reels and documents to go through. The Chelsea pension records is certainly one source but there are other lists no doubt.

Really enjoyed the photos you submitted to the forum gallery of your highland Livingstone ancestral homeland of Shiaba, Ross of Mull. You can look at those photos and almost imagine your ancestor Neil Livingstone standing right in front of one of those old crofts with his two sons ANgus and Donald over 200 years ago taking in the same breathtaking, scenic view.

John I was wondering if next time you are exploring Western Argyllshire in your travels homeward to Scotland, you might locate and photograph whatever ruins there are of the old mill at Savary operated at one time Donald Livingstone's family including an Adam Livingston of Savary possibly a son or grandson of the famous hero of the Battle of Culloden Donald Livingstone in the early 1800's. The late Rob Livingstone our earlier North American Clan Commissioner told me several years ago there wasnt much there any more in way of settlement or Livingstons today at Savary but I understand in the 1980' s or 1990's there were some proposals to clear the area of overgrown pine trees where the mill ruins where. I believe it was located adjacent to the Savary river. I would like to find out whether or not some in the Morvern community followed up on their plans to do something with the old mill site. Perhaps little project if you are in the area, dropping by nearby Lismore and are curious about happened the village where Donald Livingstone (1728-1816) and his family lived and perhaps mine. Unfortunately my ancestor Miles Livington b.1775 stated in his 1812 marriage record he was a native of Morvern Parish to the Bowmore, Island of Islay Presbyterian minister at the time but he regretably did not indicate what village in Morvern his family originated and there are no surviving baptismal records for Morvern prior to the early 1800's unlike some other neighbouring parishes in Mull. Baron Livingstone has however in the past pointed that there are onlya a a few Miles Livingstones in the early records limited to his island of Lismore and neighbouring Morvern. Interestingly the only other local family to use the name "Miles" were of Clan McInnes who are one of the oldest clans in the Savary Morvern area. Donald Livingston's mother was infact Anna McInnis and is buried with Donald's father John at Keil Cemetery in a decorative table tomb which you may be familliar with if you have checked out Keil Cemetery or nearby Lochaline, Morvern.



regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

A couple of things that may be of interest to some one,

1. Archibald Livingston - b. abt. 1783, probably at Morvern, 1851 census has him resident Parks Land, 11, West Breast, Greenock, ( Roll CSCT1851-119 ), he was a Greenwich Pensioner ( Royal Navy equivelant of a Chelsea Pensioner ).

Wife - Barbara - family name unknown.

Family;

Duncan - 14 yrs.

Archibald - 11yrs.

Robert - 4yrs.

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

Seems like there were quite a few highland Livingstons that served in the Army and Navy in the early 1800's. Speaking of which I recently found a Dun Levington and a John Levingston that received the 1815 Battle of Waterloo medal. They did not serve in an highland Argyllshire regiment but with another non highland regiment of the British Army. These could be the Uncles of Dr. David Livingston that according to his grandson Hubert Liviingston Wilson were at the Battle of Waterloo. I am hoping now that I found these records to access the full information at some point and try to see if we can prove these were Uncles of Dr. Livingstone. Probably not an easy thing to do.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Donald,

I'm still no further forward on finding anything on the illusive Angus, a little bit I did find, to qualify to be a Chelsea Pensioner around the 1800's, only 12 years service, or to be wounded badly enough to be pensioned off was required to qualify. I got this info from UK military records, unfortunately, as yet, Angus has not appeared.
This at least gets rid of my doubts on how he could be a Chelsea Pensioner at such a young age, given recruiting ages in these days, by 25 or 26 years old, he could have had enough service to qualify, even younger if he was wounded badly,

John

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,

I noticed that your ancestor Angus Livingston was mentioned as an army pensioner i think in the 1841 Census. I wonder if there is any other pension list or army list he might be recorded on. I have been keeping a lookout, but havent noticed an ANgus Livingston. It would seem from the 1841 Census that he was receiving a military pension unless I misunderstood the info probably for participation during part of the Napoleonic Wars. As well i have been looking for anyone who could fit as Dr. David livingstone's Uncle's John and Duncan Livingston who were thought by Dr. Livingstones grandson Hubert Livingstone Wilson to have been at the Battle of Waterloo. Well I managed to do a quick check a Battle of Waterloo medal list and interestingly a John Levingston and a Dun Levingston who were with a British regiment received a medal. They were not with a highland regiment but I would assume they were highland Livingstons. WHether they are in fact Dr. Livingstone's Uncles John and Duncan Livingston I have no way of knowing at this point. I have the name of the regiments they served in and at some point we may learn more about them.

regards,

Donald

[Livingstone_PEI]

Yeh

Sometimes I wish I could be whisked back ohhhhhh, I think a hundred years would be enough to unravel the many questions we have about our Livingstone lines.

Although the family of John Livingston of Georgetown is as far as I know not related to my Mother's family, he somewhat fits as being the uncle of Dr. Livingston, but it is just a gut feeling and I can't prove anything. I know everyone is looking for the Dr's uncles and there are many that fit the bill, so add this one to the list.

John was granted a town lot in Georgetown in 1803 and from my research there were soldiers in Georgetown around that time too. Fifty years previous to this English ships lay seige to the French DeRoma settlement across the river. There was a military prescence in Georgetown for quite a few years after that. Georgetown is the county capital of the county of Kings County. My reasearch shows that someone with a town lot needs another means of supporting themselves other than farming as the land document says was his profession. This was a town lot and making a living as a farmer with only a pasture lot outside the town for me is a bit of a stretch. Afterwards John moved to Maine, since his son was born in Maine. I can guess possibly the move may have had something to do with the American Revolution and he and his family may have been stationed there as one of the military divisions for the British army. I have no proof that he returned to PEI, but I do know that his wife Sarah and son Malcolm returned. In the Georgetown area there was an Alexander Livingstone which shows in the census of PEI for 1841 (16-45 years of age), and I could speculate this is John's brother (lot 54). Living with Alex is a woman over 60 which fits that this is Sarah, his mother. Also is a younger boy which I could speculate is Alex's son and later in Sarah's will is listed as her grandson Joseph. Now it lists the birthplace of each individual on the census and I think I have narrowed down that Alex was born in the British Isles, while Sarah was from Scotland as I know she was born in Scotland, which is proven. If he was military, they may have lived in England when Alex was born, but this would mean he might have a birth record there. The question is what happened to Alex....this is another unanswered question and I could speculate he died and Joseph was raised by his grandmother. Interestingly the Livingston's in the east have often been listed in census documents as Levingstons and at least one of the Chelsea pensioners fits the description of John from Georgetown.
To help with sorting this out, I would like to know more about the military units in Maine during the American Revolution. Which units were stationed there? Who were in these units? I have sent an email to the curator of the PEI Museum who is an old school aquaintance of mine and am waiting for a response to my email. I know there is more to the story on John Livingston of Georgetown and knowing he is a Fort William Livingston, I suspect he has a military background as many Livingston's do from there. Every now and then I find a little bit more of this puzzle.....I suppose I am still young lol......the hunt goes on. Also are there any birth records back this far listing a John and Sarah (Sally) Levingston having a child Alexander in the British Isles, likely in an area where there is a strong military prescence. 1796 to 1803 would be the dates I am suspecting that Alex was born if my hunch is correct.

Barry

[Livingstone_PEI]

If I was to pick a regiment that John Livingston was a member of......I would have to say I would guess at the 78th Fraser Highlanders, which was a 2nd battalion of the 62nd Regiment of Foot. It had been in the areas of PEI and Nova Scotia and I wonder if they were here when John Livingston showed in PEI. The 62nd also was involved in the war of 1812 too. I have been concentrating on trying to find muster lists of these two regiments. I do know that around 1802 alot of regiments disbanded and that may explain how John received the lot in Georgetown and is listed as a farmer now, since his regiment disbanded, maybe to be reactivated for the War of 1812.

Barry