Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

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Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Barbara,

Dr. David Livingstone Wilson passed away a few years. He had created a family tree chart which I had seen years ago of the family of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison that stated that John Livingstone was a son of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison. I had forgotten to be honest that it mentioned Margaret Green but as you reminded me I did note that back in 2009. Someone years I believe contacted me by mail with the information contained on that family tree chart but it has been quite a while since I looked at and have no idea now where it is at present. As you can imagine I have files upon files upon files of Livingston papers collecting dust in the house.
There are number of different persons that are thought by some to be John Livingston's wife but as I mentioned there is no "documented" proof that any of them were actually John Livingston's wife. I too I am researching John Livingston so would very happy if we could only we could learn about what became of John. There was no further info regarding John son of Neil Livingston Sr. and Mary Morrison on that particular chart and no list of descendants unfortunately and I have not seen any John Livingston-Margaret Green family trees and nothing of John Livingston-Margaret Green ancestral line connected to Dr. Livingstone's family but I would encourage anyone who has documentation linking a Margaret Green to this son of Neil Livingstone Sr. and Mary Morrison, John Livingston b.1777 to contact our Forum.

The only documented information that I have to offer regarding John is that John Livingston was born in 1777 at Lettermore, Mull everything else that I know about John is pretty much speculation unfortunately. The Livingston Centre in Blantyre may have some of David Livingstone Wilson's genealogy work but I can't say if a family trees John Livingston and Margaret Green was sent to him over the years or what information he may of had regarding a John Livingston-Mary Green connection. I myself have seen a lot of information over the years on the Livingstons but no detailed info on a John Livingston and Mary Green family connection regrettably.

regards,
Donald
barbarajoh
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:39 am

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by barbarajoh »

Hi Donald,
Thanks for clarifying. I will keep searching for a John and Margaret (Green) and let you know if anything can be found. I am a bit reluctant to think they are the same family as the name Neil or Nial does not seem to have been passed down this line but then I only have this one child for John and Margaret. As you say Dr Wilson may have just been given the information and not verified it but then he could also have known it himself. I will keep watching the site to see if you find anything on your suspects.

Best wishes
Barbara
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Barbara,

We have had a good bit of luck here helping people over the years find their "lost" Livingston relatives and discovering genealogy info in many cases they were not aware of, but I would have to say that finding out what became of Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John has been successful. Part of the reason goes back to Dr Livingstone's first book published in 1857 in which a first chapter is devoted to his early life and family origins but regarding his Uncles only mentions that all served in the army or navy during the Napoleonic Wars. Later biographies after his Dr. Livingstone's death tell us that Uncle Charles and his other brothers in their early years worked for the Monteith family who owned the cotton mill at Blantyre Works and that Uncle Charles worked as a Clerk with much promise until he ended up during the Napoleonic War a sailor, died in 1815 and was buried at sea apparently. It was also assumed that some of the Uncles other than Charles died in War in 1815 and that may be the case but I am not entirely convinced. There were a number of Livingstons that served in the military during the Napoleonic Wars from Scotland.

William Garden Blaikie was in contact with the children of Dr. Livingstone when he researched his 1880 biography the Personal Life of Livingstone and even his book lacks details regarding the Uncles and oddly the grandparents of Dr. Livingstone are not referred to by their names which I think would have helped to clear up much confusion in later years regarding who the grandparents of Dr. Livingstone were. Ultimately in 1857 Dr. Livingstone would have the best one to tell his family story with great detail but chose instead to delve too deeply into the family history which probably would have required at the very least an additional chapter in his first book. He tells us his grandfather who he does not refer to by name was a great story teller in the highland tradition and knew many details of the family history, but he shares little details of this family history. His thinking seems to have been at the time, that the reader would not be as interested in the family aspect of his story compared to a detailed account of his missionary work, adventures and explorations after arriving in Africa for the first time as a young man. He was however not ashamed of his humble origins as a child labourer, piecer and later cotton spinner who worked long hours in the cotton mill and lived in a one room tenement shared with his other family members in Blantyre. This he shares with the reader in greater detail.

regards,

Donald
kiltedkiwi
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Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by kiltedkiwi »

Does anyone know if there is a list of workers at the cotton mill where David Livingstone worked as a child. Also is there a list of those families who lived at Shuttle Row where LIvingstone's family lived.
Bob
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Bob,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum. Good questions. I have not seen a list of families who were employed over the years by the Monteith family at Blantyre Works and lived at Shuttle Row. I only really know that there were Livingstons including David Livingston's kin that lived in Blantyre and worked at the mill there. The Livingston Centre in Blantyre is of course primarily focused on David Livingstone and his family who were at Blantyre and working at the mill there, but they may know where you might find information on other local families that resided in Blantyre in housing provided to the workers who worked at the Mill in the late 1700's and 1800's. If your looking for a specific family or person and they lived at Blantyre in the 1840's or thereafter working at the Blantyre mill they are likely listed in the 19th century census records from 1841 onward and the census my indicated the occupation of the head of the household. The census however may or may not indicate that those censused worked at the mill in Blantyre just that they lived in Blantyre Parish. And if your looking for a specific person or family that you think or know lived in Blantyre Parish in the late 1700's and 1800's who you suspect worked in the mill an lived at Blantyre Works you might also find some info on them in the Blantyre Parish, Lanarkshire Church of Scotland records for example a marriage record or birth record of their children which might be helpful to your research. A detailed list of some of those families who worked at the Mill and lived at Blantyre Works may exist but I can't say for certain it exist. Best to try and contact the Livingstone Centre in Blantyre, Lanarkshire or go to blantyreproject.com. Paul Veverka at blantyreproject.com. He has done quite a bit of research over the years on the history of Blantyre and the Mill that employed Dr. Livingstone and other relatives and has written some books on Blantyre. I have found Paul in the past to be quite knowledgeable regarding what information has been found regarding Blantyre Mill and its workers. You could leave a query there with him at his website.



regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
BLiv1
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:04 pm
Location: Manchester NH USA

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by BLiv1 »

Hello, I’m new to this forum. I found it by googling this question: How did MacOnlea become Livingstone? This is a ton of information on the Livingstones, my father and his cousin searched for it but have both died now. So I have picked up the thread. My Line comes by way of Hector Livingstone b. 1811 and Lucella Crocker b. Nova Scotia d 1900 Hillsborough NB CA. This has been my brick wall for years, all I had was a very bad copy of 1861 Census from NB CA. So last week I found Hectors baptism record and his father listed as John Livingston b 1775 Morven, Argyll , Scotland, d 1859 Nine Mile Creek, PEI CA and his mother Isabella McGregor, this I found on Familysearch. The church is in Charlottetown and is still in existence. On islandregistries.com (records of PEI) I found a history of Livingstones of Clyde River, these three are among them. They came on the ship Rambler in 1806. John Livingston would be my 3rd great grandfather, Hector my second. Any further info or discussion I would gladly hear. Thank you BLiv1
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi B. Livingston,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society Forum.

There are a few theories actually but nothing known for certain I dont think, regarding why the highland Western Argyllshire Parish Mconleas/Macleas in the 1750's all seem to have around the same time period stopped referring to themselves in the Argyllshire records as Mconleas or Macleas and adopted the name Livingstone. One Maclea in the 1700's not from the Western Argyllshire Macleas believed that there was some information suggesting a possible historic connection between the Stirlingshire Livingstons and the Macleas of Western Argyllshire, but DNA testing has pretty much confirmed so far that there is no apparent paternal ancestral connection likely between the Maclea-Livingstones that resided in Western Argyllshire for centuries and any of the old lowland Livingston families of Stirlingshire or other lowland Counties of centuries past. It is possible though that in the 1600's there may have been some other sort of family connection or an alliance of some sort forged with the aristocratic Stirlingshire Livingstons around that time. Interestingly in the mid 1600's there was Sir James Livingston from a lowland family that lived briefly on the Isle of Lismore in Argyllshire, but whether he had anything to do with the Mconleas on Lismore and elsewhere in neighbouring parishes throughout Western Argyllshire by the 1750's universally adopting the name Livingstone or Livingston I really have no way of knowing for certain.


Several years ago a direct descendant of a younger brother of your ancestor John Livingston of Nine Mile Creek who was Donald Livingstone b. 1780 contacted our forum and her brother had participated in the Y chromosome DNA test of Familytreedna. Their ancestor Donald Livingstone Jr. b.1780 married in Kilniian Parish, Mull in the year 1803 Flora McPhail and their marriage entry sure enough indicates that although the marriage took place in Kilninian Parish, Mull Donald Livingstone Jr. was originally a native of neighbouring Morvern Parish. The DNA test results have actually confirmed that this Donald Livingstone Jr. was likely born in Morvern as his descendants closest DNA matches in the Familytreedna Y Chromosome test are in fact Livingstons of documented Morvern Livingston ancestry including my own Livingston cousin of Morvern, Argyllshire ancestry who I had tested with the same Y chromosome Familytreedna test more than 10 years ago. Unfortunately we have not heard from the the Donald Livingstone Jr. contact at the Forum for almost 10 years now but I am hoping that they may see some of the more recent info that I am posting regarding the Nine Mile Creek LIvingstons.

Oddly following in the years that followed the death of the older Donald Livingstone Sr. b.1750 around 1840 at Nine Mile Creek Lot 65, QUens County and the subsequent death of his eldest Son Duncan b. 1772, the son John Livingstone later on and the departure the youngest son Alexander from the Nine Mile creek area, two other Argyllshire Livingstons Donald Livingston b. 1810 and his brother Alexander Livingston b. 1814 in Scotland not to be confused with Donald's son's, according to the PEI records took on the leasing in the 1840's and thereafter of lots formerly occupied by old Donald LIvingtone b. 1750 and his son Duncan in the Nine Mile Creek. DNA testing of a descendant of one these "other later" LIvingstons of Nine mile Creek, has confirmed that they seem to be not descended from old Donald Livingstone b. 1750 as your ancestor John and his brothers Duncan b.1772, Donald 1780 and Alexander were and do not appear to Donald's sons Donald and Alexander though they do have the same name. All the info points to these other Livingstons who came later in the 1800's at Nine Mile Creek as being perhaps relatives Clearly born in Scotland in the early 1800's some time after old Donald of Nine Mile Creek had in 1806 settled in PEI.

The DNA test however of a descendant of Donald Livingstone Jr. of Lot 31 Clyde River Queens County, the younger brother of your ancestor was a close match with other Morvern Livingston and this family had some well detailed generation by generation details linking their Livingston family back to the same Donald Livingstone. b.1750 who settled at Nine Mile Creek, Lot 65 Queens County, PEI who is your ancestor.

A number of Livingtons with Western Argyllshire ancestry including some from Mull and other parishes in Argyllshire are also more distant matches with this particular DNA match group of Western Argyllshire Maclea Livingston ancestry. The entire group in total now numbers close to 30 Livingstons. Many more Livingstons from other Livingston families have also done the test and match with other Livingstons DNA match groups in the Y Chromosome DNA test groups with Familytreedna who have had this test available online for a number a years now. One of the Livingstons matching with three other Livingstons known to be of Morvern Livingston ancestry and match with the Western Argyllshire Maclea livingstone I have mentioned, is most interesting a documented direct descendant of a brother of the famous Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary, MOrvern who as a young man of 18 was recruited by Alexander Stewart of Inverhyle to serve in the Appin Regiment which was part of Bonnie Prince Charlie's Jacobite Army during the Jacobite Rebellion of 1715. Livingston's of the Western Argyllshire Maclea Livingstone families and many more than are not have done the DNA test from around the world and the test results have definitely helped to get a better sense of the diverse origins of a number of families in highland and lowland Scotland who were known as Livingstones or Livingtons.

I have been working with a number of Maclea- Livingstons at the Forum here over the years who are descended from a number of Livingston families mostly but not all of Mull ancestry that settled in the early 1800's in Nova Scotia and PEI, so from them I have learned and kept notes regarding over the years regarding settlement of our Maclean-Livingstones into Nova Scotia and PEI. I am familiar with most of the original Maclea LIvingstones from primarily Mull with a couple from neighbouring Morvern who made their home in Nova Scotia and PEI in before 1825.

I was most interested to learn the name of Hector Livingstons wife which I did not know and would like to learn whatever you do know about Hector Livingstons and his later descendants in New Brunswick. It seems clear then that he left Nova Scotia for New Brunswick then. I could not find anything on him later in the 1800's in PEI. As you mentioned yes there are indeed those Charlottetown baptism records of John Livington and Margaret Mcgregors children incliding John, but not much more than that on your elusive ancestor Hugh Livingston.

regards,
Donald (Maclea) Livingstone
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
BLiv1
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:04 pm
Location: Manchester NH USA

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by BLiv1 »

Hi Donald,
My sister has done 23andme DNA testing. How could she submit it or do you need a maleY ? Also, Is my John Livingston of 1775 Morven the same as this John Livingston b 1777? There has always been a rumor in our family that we are related to David Livingstone. It would be nice to confirm or disprove this rumor.
Beth
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi B. Livingston,
The DNA test our Clan Society has been working with over the years and many others Livingstons not connected to our Clan Society for more than 10 years has been the Y chromosome test for Livingston males offered by Familytreedna. This test works the paternal Livingston DNA so regrettably your sister's DNA or yours would not work with this particular test they have been utilizing. If would unfortunately have to be a brother or male Livingston relative who possesses the Y Chromosome to do this kind of DNA test. I am always searching for any Livingstons of Morvern Livingston ancestry, that can do the Familytreedna 67 marker DNA test as we already4 Livingstons of suspected or known documented Argyllshire Parish records info identifying them as being of Western Argyllshire Maclea Livingstone Morvern ancestry and they have done the Y Chromosome test. They are match in a larger Maclea Livingstone DNA match group with other LIvingstons numbering now almost 30 who are also for the most part descended from 18th and 19th century Maclea LIvingstones of parishes of Western Argyllshire according to their family info.

My ancestor Miles Livington was born abt. 1775 in Morvern Argyllshire and in the year 1812 or thereabouts was recruited by a highland agent of Lord Selkirk to be a boatbuilder along with his Livingston brother in law? Donald Livingstone 1791-1876 at second settlement of Lord Selkirks in British North America this time in then Hudsons Bay Territory at Red River. Miles with his second wife Janet, his son Donald born in 1796 and his brother in law Donald Livingston and otherScottish settlers and some Irish arrived at Red River in Oct of 1812 and in 1814 Miles built his cabin along the Red River in what is today present day Winnipeg. Later in June of 1815 Miles his wife Janet and their two infant children Hugh and Nancy (Mrs John Clink) left rather hastily for Upper Canada on an arduous and lengthy journey by canoe for Upper Canada. The Red River settlers were caught in the middle of an unfortunately violent dispute between Lord Selkirk, the Hudson Bay Company and their rivals the North West Company. More than 10 years ago now I discovered Livingston cousin I had never met, who found out was doing some Livingston family research and she very kindly got her father to do the test. I think these tests of Western Argyllshire Maclea Livingtones are beginning to show which Livingtons of Morvern and Mull are most closely to each other which I think is quite interesting. Also the tests are introducing me to other Livingstons of Scotland and neighbouring Northern Ireland origin who have other family origins than Western Argyllshire apparently. So I have personally found these Y chromosome DNA tests to have been quite helpful.

Our Clan Maclea Livingstones have been working with familytreedna's Y chromosome test and there are quite a few Livingstons that have by now done this test so there are many Livingstons whose results can be closely compared with those of any new participants who are tested in the future. So we would highly recommend you consider doing this Y chromosome test either the 67 or 111 marker test. The 67 marker test is a bit cheaper and one can always upgrade later to a 111 test at a smaller additional charge than the original 67 marker test. It is probably best to do a 67 marker test to get a good sense of how closely related you are to the other Maclea Livingtons that match closely with Livingstons of Morvern, Argyllshire ancestry. If you have any Livingston relatives interested I can provide additional info on the familytreedna Y chromosome test.
that seems to be working quite well identifying other Western Argyllshire Livingston of 18th century Morvern Argyllshire Maclea Livingston ancestry.
regards,

Donald
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