Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

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Canadian Livingstone
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Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi All,

From time to time there is interest expressed regarding the Uncles of Dr. David Livingstone. Not much is known of them in part I suspect because most of them died at an early age during the Napoleonic Wars. Apart from the Kilnian and Kilmore Parish records which list the baptismal records of some of the children of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison, born at Mull and Ulva there is Dr. Livingstone's brother's brief account of his Uncles. Included in RJ Campbell's book "Livingstone" there was a letter dated April 9,1891 in which John Livingstone (1811-1899) of Listowel, Ontario, Canada the last surviving brother of Dr. David Livingstone discussed his grandfather's family with historian Sinclair McLean:
"My grandfather, Neil Livingstone, and his wife Mary Morrison with their family, left Mull or Ulva about the end of the last century and settled at Blantyre, near Glasgow, and remained there till they died. The names of the children were John, Charles, Duncan, Donald and Neil with two daughters Kate and Margaret: but they are all dead now. Neil was my father."

Dr. David Livingstone Wilson grandson of Dr. Livingstone's daughter Anna recorded on his 1989 Livingston family list children of Neil Livingstone and Mary Morrison being:
Mary b.1776, John Livingstone b.1777 d.? m.Margaret Green, Charles Livingstone b.1779, Duncan Livingstone b.1781,Margaret b.1783, Catharine b.1785, Neal Beag Livingstone b. 1788 d.1856 m. Agnes Hunter b.1782 d.1865. Interestingly no Donald is mentioned though Mary is included.

The Kilninian and Kilmore Parish records include baptismal entries for three sons and three daughters. Mary the eldest daughter Feb.4,1776 was likely forgotten by John Livingston in his above mentioned list or may have died in infancy. John April 13,1777, Charles May 23, 1779, Margaret April 6, 1783, Catharine Sept. 10, 1785 and Neil Nov. 30, 1787 are also recorded. Missing in these records are baptismal entries for sons Duncan and Donald. It is believed that son Duncan was born 1781 and Donald in 1782 but there appears to be no surviving parish records to confirm this. It is however certainly a reasonable assumption that one or both of them were born and baptised during the the 1781/1782 period.

Following Neil and Mary Livingston's 1792 arrival at Blantyre Scotland in Lanarkshire Neil Sr.and his sons became employees of a Cotton factory owned by Henry Monteith and Company. The Blantyre mill was established in 1780 by David Dale and James Monteith. In 1792 Henry Monteith Senior's son James bought this Cotton spinning and weaving mill from David Dale. James died in 1802 and his brother Henry Monteith Jr. of Glasgow took over the family business.

Of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison's sons all but Neil jr subsequently joined the Army or Navy during the Napoleonic war period. Dr. Livingstone's father Neil livingston Jr. eventually became a tea dealer and later lived and died at Hamilton, Scotland. It is believed that Neil Livingston Sr.and Mary Morrison's son's Charles, Duncan and Donald died during the Napoleonic Wars. In the 1880's Livingstone biographer William Garden Blaikie in his book "The Personal Life of David Livingstone" is brief and does not mention the names of all of Dr. Livingstones Uncles that served or died in the war but states:
"The Ulva emigrant had several sons all of whom but one eventually entered the Kings service during the French War either as soldiers or sailors.The old man was somewhat disheartened by this circumstance and especially by the fate of Charles head clerk in the office of Mr Henry Monteith in Glasgow who was pressed on board a man of war and died soon after in the Mediterean."

Dr. Livingstone in his autobiographical account in "Livingstones Travels and Exploration in South Africa" published in the late 1850's is even briefer regarding his Uncles:
"Our Uncles all entered his majesties service during the last French war either as soldiers or sailors but my father remained at home..."

What became of Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b. 1777 however is somewhat of a mystery to me. Was he also killed in the Napoleonic wars? Did he return to Lanarkshire and the lowlands after the war or did he return to his ancestral homeland of Mull or elsewhere in the Argyllshire highlands. I have had no success in finding him in the early census records in 19th century Scotland anywhere in highland or lowland Scotland.

Did he go to Canada following the end of the Napoleonic Wars? We know from Dr Livingstone's correspondence that some of his kin settled in Canada though he only mentions his older brother John by name although we know one of his Morrison relatives settled in PEI. Could Uncle John Livingston have also settled in Canada when Napoleonic War vets were receiving generous land grants from the Crown following the war. These were some of the possibilities I have considered over the years. So far I have no evidence that Dr Livingstone's Uncle settled in Canada either in Ontario or in PEI or Nova Scotia after 1815. Oddly enough in one letter from 1850, Dr. Livingston alludes to the fact that his parents Neil Livingstone Jr. and Agnes Hunter were living in Canada. Perhaps a plan for them to settle in Ontario with his older brother John had been decided upon around 1850,but apparently they changed their mind at the last moment and nothing came of it.

According to the Jamieson family there is family information that suggests that their ancestor John Livingston of Ariogan near Oban in Kilbride parish, Argyllshire is Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison's son John born in 1777. This John Livingston of Ariogan married to a Flora Maclean I could not locate in the Scottish census records. He had a daughter FLora Livingston whom married Alexander Livingston in 1833 according to Jamieson family records. I did however locate Flora Livingston in the 1851 Scottish census at Bothwell Parish in the town of Uddington in Lanarkshire where it states she was indeed born in Kilbride Parish about 1809 and that her husband Archibald Livingston born abt. 1809 was born in Ardchattan Parish. The 1861 Census however states that Archibald was born in Oban in Kilbride Parish, Arygll abt. 1808. There is a Alexander Livingston baptised on Mary 19,1807 at Kinloch (Benderloch according to the Jamiesons) in Ardchattan Parish the parents as stated by the Jamieson research were Neil Livingston and Mary McIIariach THe children at Uddington were Mary age 10, Jane age 7 and Neil age 5 but the problem is as rechecked it that the Flora's husband's name and the father of these children was an Archibald. Neil we are told in the Jamieson information later settled in Australia. After Flora died her husband apparently Archibald and not Alexander as I originally understood remarried to a widower Mary McPhail and in the 1861 Census this Archibald and his new wife Mary Mcphail, her daughter Mary age 10 and his son Neil age 15 are now living at Rutherglen as mentioned in the Jamieson info and which is also in Lanarshire at 21 Main Street.

Oddly enough the 1861 census info states that Archibald Livingston was born at Oban which is in Kilbride Parish rather than Ardchattan Parish. He did likely live there however at some point in the Oban area as athat is likely where he met his wife FLora as her family lived in Kilbride Parish near Oban and her father John Livingston lived at Ariogan which is just a mile or two south of Oban around 1850 according to the Jamieson family information.

The information according to the Jamieson research that their ancestor John Livingston of Ariogan, Kilbride Parish , Argyll is the son of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison is recorded in an old marriage record from 1833 of his daugther Flora Livingston and her husband ALexander Livingston. No doubt this old document would be worth studying further and no doubt would be of interest to the Livingston family museum at Blantyre, Scotland.

WHile I assumed that John Livington the eldest son of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison went to Lanarkshire with his parents in 1792 there is no reason why he could not have returned to Argyllshire and ended up at Ariogan in the Oban area of Kilbride Parish. I would have thougt if he had returned to Argyll after the Napoleonic wars he would have gone back to Mull or Ulva where there might be some kin at that time. Interestingly when Dr. Livingstone visited Mull and Ulva looking for kin in 1864 on last return to Great Britain he could find none. Apparently those who may have been there in the late 1700's had move on elswhere in Argyll, gone to the lowlands or the colonies. Perhaps other Livingston kin found work and a new home in Lanarkshire in the lowlands.

With such a lack of information on Dr. David Livingstone's Uncles and Aunts there is very little I can tell you with any great degree of certainty about Neil and Mary Livingstone's son John regretably. Dr. Livingstone published a autobiographical account of his life in the 1850's with great emphasis on his African adventures but deliberately devoted but a few pages to his family history thinking that people would not be interested in his family origins. In fact his grandfather Neil Livingston Sr. he tells us was a great story teller who knew the family history back several generations and it is indeed a pity that the good Doctor shared very little with the reader what his grandfather Neil Livingston had told him as a boy in Blantyre about his Livingston Uncles. He does however confirm that his Uncles did serve in the military during the Napoleonic Wars. William Blaikie's one of Dr. Livingston's earliest biographers in the 1880's talked to some of his surviving next of kin but seems not to have learned many details of families early history before they arrived at Blantrye, Lanarkshire in the 1790's or about Doctor Livingstone's Uncles which is most unfortunate given his contact with Dr. Livingstone's family. Obviously Dr. Livingstone's adventures and explorations in Africa overshadowed an interest in his family history at least among his early biographers.

Donald
jenniferakagigi
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Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by jenniferakagigi »

Hello! I am so excited to read of your interest in David Livingstone's uncles and specifically his Uncle John. I have just joined access to the forum and am not near my papers at the moment. I am related to the Livingston's as well as the Jameisons that have been in contact with you. The only thing I have different is that John's daughter Flora married Archibald Livingston her cousin, not Alexander. They had a daughter Mary. I have the book of Psalms that reads....John to his grand daughter Mary 1850 Arigoan. I dont have any dates with me here, but I will dig them out when I get home.

I have never read anything about the uncles serving in the war. the Livingston family burial grounds is up near Arigoan. My Aunt Flora Beek Mott told stories that she was told that David's father the tea merchant would come to the Livingston's home and read letters from David. Mary Livingston married David Jamieson, who was in the wool industry with his father Thomas Jamieson. David used wool tassels to barter to free slave girls in Africa. i have some picstures on my blog of the Book of Pslams and the Arigoan farm.
http://jerseyshorejournal.blogspot.com/ ... stone.html
Recently I was in touch w a gentleman, Ron Corbeille, who is related to Archibald's brother Alexander. I have a picture of Archilbald and many things from Scotland.

So long for now, Jennifer Mott Palermo New Jersey USA
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Kyle MacLea
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Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Kyle MacLea »

Jennifer--my apologies on taking so long to approve your post. I've been moving this week. Hope you get some great responses to this message--we're so glad you found us!

Kyle=
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
jmlivingstone
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Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by jmlivingstone »

Jeniffer/Donald,

There are quite a few family trees in Ancestry which contain info on John Livingstone b. 13.04.1777 to Neil Livingstone & Mary Morrison, he apppears to have initially emigrated to Canada, possibly around 1806, then moved to New Jersey. They generally have him as dying 1815 at Waterloo, Monmouth, New Jersey.

The accuracy of these family trees I have grave doubts about, either this John married at least four times, & was a bigamist for part of his life, or these trees are inaccurate, they have him married to the following women, Margaret Brown / Mary Craig / Isabella McGregor / Mary Lawson.

There is also a record of two of his brothers, one of which was Duncan, being killed at Brabon Wallon, Belgium.

There are a large number of family trees containing info on John & his parents in Ancestry, unfortunately, some contain info that just does not make much sense, still, hopefully the above will be of some use,

John
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Jennifer,

Regarding Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston born abt. 1777 at Lettermore, Kilninian Parish, Mull in Argyllshire, Scotland to Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison there unfortunately much speculation but little in the way tangible historical facts from Dr. Livingstone's family. Dr. Livingstone mentioned that his Uncles were in the Navy and Army during the Napoleonic Wars and thats about it. Also Dr. Livingstone's grandson Hubert Livingstone WIlson stated in the 1920's that all the Uncles were at teh Battle of Waterloo. This is not entirely correct, as one of them Charles we know press ganged into the British Navy and died somwhere in the mediterean during the Napoleonic War. It is however quite conceivable that sons John, Duncan and or Donald might have been at the Battle of Waterloo and I have been recently looking into this with some possibly promising clues recently located regarding a John and Dun Levingston who served in the British Army at the Battle of Waterloo. More about that later.

Dr. Livingston brother John b. 1811 identified the Uncles in an 1891 letter to historian Alexander Maclean Sinclair as being John, Charles, Duncan and Donald, but Duncan and Donald baptismal or birth records do not exist or at least survive in the Kilninian Parish records. There is however reason to believe that Dr. Livingstone's grandfather had at least four or possibly five sons including Dr. Livingstone's father Neil who did not participate in the Napoleonic Wars.

It is assumed that the John Livingston born and baptised in 1777 at Lettermore, Dr. Livingstone's Uncle is the same John Livingston who married Flora McLean at Reudle in Kilninian Parish, Mull December 27, 1796 and that may well be the case. Regarding John Livingston and Flora McLean being the parents of the Flora Livingston born abt. 1806 at Ariogan in Kilbride Parish this does not appear in the original Kilbride parish records. All that I have located in the Argyllshire County Parish records for John Livingston or Levingston and his wife Flora Mclean were four baptismal entries which original parish records which were recorded in the old Kilninian Parish, Mull parish book. According the Kilninian Parish book these children of John Livingston or Levingston and his wife Flora Mclean were born at Reudle in Kilninian Parish, Mull:

1. John Livingston baptised February 2,1799
2. Alexander Levingston baptised June 6,1802
3. Catharine Levingston baptised July 19, 1804
4. Elizabeth Levingston baptised June 13, 1806

As far as I can tell these are the only verifiable children of John Livingston or Levingston and his wife FLora Mclean recorded in the old parish books in Argyllshire County. I realize that the family information regarding Flora Livingston b. 1806 of Ariogan, Kilbride Parish may state otherwise but this unfortunately is actuall family of John Livingston and Flora Mclean of Kilninian Parish, Mull that actually survives in the old parish book. I could find no evidence at least in the original Argyllshire parish book records of John Livingston and Flora Mclean having children born in Kilbride parish or near Oban. It also seems quite clear from these Kilninian Parish records that contrary to what had been earlier stated about John Livingston and Flora Mclean they were not without sons as the old Kilninian Parish book clearly indicates. There could indeed be a connection between the FLora Livingston b. 1806 at Ariogan in Kilbride Parish, Argyllshire and John Livingston and Flora McLean but I could not find it in the family recorded in the parish records sorry to say.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Maclea Livingstone Society
barbarajoh
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Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by barbarajoh »

Hello,

I found my way to this forum via a search engine while searching for "John Livingstone" "Margaret Green" for a cousin's husband. I was surprised to find them as possible uncle and aunt to David Livingstone at the start of this message chain in 2009.. So my curiosity is piqued as to whether anything else is known about the possibility of John Livingstone marrying Margaret Green and where. My relation's ancestors were from Ayrshire as far back as I can get but I can find no trace on Scotlandspeople of this couple. Their son Peter born 1818 in Maybole died in 1902 and they are named as his parents on the death record. Peter married twice and moved to Edinburgh and then to the Borders of Scotland where he was a tailor. His first wife was Ann McCulloch and his second Helen Lees who he married in Melrose in 1850. His son Richard James had 12 children, two of whom were born in Ontario in the mid 1890s at Cannington, but the rest all in Innerleithen, Scotland.

so not Highland but am wondering if anyone knows anything of this family and especially John and Mgt (Green) Livingstone.

Barbara



.
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hello,
I have not spent much time regarding John Livingston son of Neil Livingston Sr. and Mary Morrison recently. Don't know much about him at all and there really no documented information from the family or Dr. Livingstone regarding John and where he went or lived after his birth in 1777. There is no record of him or his family being in Blantyre, Lanarkshire with his father or some of his siblings.
Don't know about John Livingston's wife being a Margaret Green. I don't expect there was an Ayrshire connection. The best theory so far that I have seen suggests the John Livingston lived at Reudal not far from Lettermore in Mull, Argyll where John Livingston son of Neil Livingston Sr and Mary Morrison was born in 1777 may have been Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John but I don't think anyone can really prove that, but definitely a person to consider. There are a number of theories out there I am sure as to where he lived and who is related to him as John mentioned. Dr. Livingtone's Uncle John is a bit of mystery to me. There have been some speculation as to who he married and where he lived in the years after he was born at Lettermore, Mull in 1777 to Neil Livingston Sr. and Mary Morrison who in 1792 were said to have left the Isle of Ulva where they lived after Lettermore for Blantyre Lanarkshire with 4 sons and three daughters. Years in an 1891 letter Dr. Livingstone's older brother stated there were 5 sons. John b. 1777, Charles b. 1779 and Neil Jr. b. 1788 the youngest who was Dr. Livingtone's father are pretty much agreed by most to definitively have been the sons of Neil Livingston Sr. and Mary Morrison as there baptisms are documented in the old Kilninian Parish, Mull and Isle of Ulva records. The other sons said to have been Donald and Duncan by Dr. Livingtone's brother John did not have surviving baptism or birth records so there is no proof of their existence but clearly there were at least 4 sons when they left for Blantyre that is documented in a letter from officials from Kilninian Parish in 1792 indicating the number of children of Neil Livingson Sr and Mary Morrison and that they were heading for Blantyre Parish, Lanarkshire.

It so long ago now that I can't find the original information but at one time a Jamieson family member contacted our clan and they had an interesting account of their family connection with Neil's son John Livingston through a daughter said to be a Flora Livingston. I thought the information back then was that Flora married an Alexander Livingston in 1833, but when I did a detailed look at parish records pertaining to this Flora Livingston who I think they are referring to it is clear that she married an Archibald Livingston in 1833. I have checked the records and it pretty clear it is actually Archibald Livingston whom this Flora Livington married on June 11, 1833 in Kilbride Parish, Argyll. Not sure if that was my mistake or someone else and I can't locate the original info. I have however some of the main info which I mentioned in an old forum posting to guide me somewhat to reconstruct this family info. In any event I think the most important thing is that follow whatever it states in the actual parish records and census records pertaining to this Flora Livingston and follow that info. So I am going to correct any errors and updating the info on Flora Livingston and then take another look at her stated family connection to John Livingston son of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison. One thing at a time I guess.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
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Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

I have found the following regarding Flora Livingston said to be a daughter of John Livingston

Archibald Livingston of the Parish of Gavan? and Flora Livingston in Ariogan married June 6, 1833 in the Kilbride and Kilmore Parish records, Argyll, Scotland

Birth records of some of the children of Archibald Livingston and Flora Livingston

Flora Livingston born January 24, 1836 Rutherglen
Mary Livingston born July 16, 1837 Rutherglen
Mary Livingston born April 4, 1841 Rutherglen?
Jean Livingstone born April 27, 1843 Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1851 Scottish Census
Bothwell Parish, Lanarkshire
Town of Uddington
Archibald Livingston age 42 born abt. 1809 Ardchattan? not correct?
Flora Livingston age 42 born abt. 1809 Kilbride Parish, Argyll
Mary livingston age 10 born abt. 1841 Rutherglen, Lanarkshire
Jane (Jean) Livingston age 7 born abt. 1844 Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Niel Livingston age 5 born abt. 1846 Rutherglen (Interesting that the only son was named "Neil"

Flora dies in the 1850's and Archibald remarries

1861 Scottish Census
Rutherglen Parish Lanarkshire
Archibald Livingston age 53 born abt. 1808 Oban (in Kilbride Parish, Argyll)
Mary Livingston age 39 in Oban
Neil Livingston age 15 in Rutherglen, Lanarkshire


Archibald and his first wife Flora's deaths are recorded on A Memorial stone in Kilbride Cemetery in Kilbride Parish Argyll

states;

Archibald Livingston died at SPringburn, Glasgow
20th of November 1880
age 73
Flora Livington died at Rutherglen, Glasgow
27, April 1854
age 46 years

the gravestone also records that their children Mary, Flora, John and Alexander died in infancy.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... i=65317326

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Regarding a connection of the above mentioned Flora Livingston born in Kilbride Parish, Argyll to John Livingston and Flora McLean who lived in the Reudle area of Kilninian Parish in Mull, Argyll the parish records have no record of a connection. This was my earlier posting on this subject:


It is assumed that the John Livingston born and baptised in 1777 at Lettermore, Dr. Livingstone's Uncle is the same John Livingston who married Flora McLean at Reudle in Kilninian Parish, Mull December 27, 1796 and that may well be the case. However regarding John Livingston and Flora McLean of Reudle, Mull being the parents of the Flora Livingston born abt. 1806 at Ariogan in Kilbride Parish this does not appear in the original Kilbride parish records where the Flora born in the early 1800's is known to be born All that I have located in the Argyllshire County Parish records for John Livingston or Levingston and his wife Flora Mclean were four baptismal entries which original parish records which were recorded in the old Kilninian Parish, Mull parish book. According the Kilninian Parish book these children of John Livingston or Levingston and his wife Flora Mclean were born at Reudle in Kilninian Parish, Mull:

1. John Livingston baptised February 2,1799
2. Alexander Levingston baptised June 6,1802
3. Catharine Levingston baptised July 19, 1804
4. Elizabeth Levingston baptised June 13, 1806

As far as I can tell these are the only verifiable children of John Livingston or Levingston and his wife FLora Mclean recorded in the old parish books in Argyllshire County. I realize that the family information regarding Flora Livingston b. 1806 of Ariogan, Kilbride Parish may state otherwise but this unfortunately is actuall family of John Livingston and Flora Mclean of Kilninian Parish, Mull that actually survives in the old parish book. I could find no evidence at least in the original Argyllshire parish book records of John Livingston and Flora Mclean having children born in Kilbride parish or near Oban. It also seems quite clear from these Kilninian Parish records that contrary to what had been earlier stated about John Livingston and Flora Mclean they were not without sons as the old Kilninian Parish book clearly indicates. There could indeed be a connection between the FLora Livingston b. 1806 at Ariogan in Kilbride Parish, Argyllshire and John Livingston and Flora McLean but I could not find it in the family recorded in the parish records sorry to say.

The question seems to be in my mind is the John Livingston who is connected to Ariogan in Kilbride Parish, Argyll near Oban the same John Livingston that married Flora Mclean and lived at Reudle near Lettermore in Mull or are these two different John Livingstons. What evidence do we have that they are the same Livingtons?

regards,

Donald
barbarajoh
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:39 am

Re: Dr. Livingstone's Uncle John Livingston b.1777

Post by barbarajoh »

It is David Livingstone's descendant who mentioned the Margaret Green.
Dr. David Livingstone Wilson grandson of Dr. Livingstone's daughter Anna recorded on his 1989 Livingston family list children of Neil Livingstone and Mary Morrison being:
Mary b.1776, John Livingstone b.1777 d.? m.Margaret Green,
This was your message Donald, from 2009. Do you have any idea how I can access this Dr David Livingstone Wilson's tree?

thanks for reply

Barbara
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