Donald David Livingstone iv

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Re: Donald David Livingstone iv

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:06 am

Hi Kyle,

The 1841 Scottish Census indicates that by 1841 there are very few of the old Savary Livingstons living at Savary. What is significant then is the fact that there are only two Livingston families recorded Allan Livingston age 70 with Majory age 40 and two sons Duncan age 35 and John age 30. The second family is Donald Livingston born 1796 and his wife Sarah b. abt. 1816 (1815) earliest proven ancestors of Donald David Livingston. There is also a Robert Livingston age 15 living with farmer Hugh Cameron and his wife Mary at Savary who may be a relative.

Then by the 1851 Census Donald Livingston and his wife Sarah have left Savary altogether and settled on a farm in neighbouring Keil, Morvern. Donald sometimes is away from the farm working on building dykes in other parts of Argyllshire. Allan Livingstone and his sons Duncan and John are not listed as residents of Savary in 1851. Interestingly the only Livingston residents I could find sadly at Savary, Morvern in the 1851 Census were Robert Livingston born 1786 at Savary and his sister Anna born 1791 who are known to have been children of famous Donald Livingston 1728-1816 of Savary and his wife Jean also known as Jane Stewart.

It may be that Donald David Livingston's family tree looks like this: (Updated!!!)
1. Donald Livingston and Catharine McInnis of Morvern
2. Donald Livingston b. Savary Morvern 1796 or 1794 in Morvern m. Sarah Livingston b.1815/1816 daughter of Adam and Mary Livingston of Savary, Morvern (Adam Livingston, sarah's father was understood to be a son of the famous Donald Livngstone 1728-1816) Please note
3. Donald Livingston b.1856 Keil, Morvern d. Unknown m. Annie McLean Donald settled in the Lettermore, Duror Parish area near Ballachuilish by 1871 (Several records indicate Annie McLean and not McLeod as her maiden name)
4. Donald D.Livingston b.1886-1950 born Duror Parish in the Lettermore area near Ballachulish married Jeannie Currie 1883-1962
Buried Queens Park Cemetery, Calgary, Alberta,Canada
5. Donald David Livingston b.1922
6.Donald David Livingston


regards,

Donald
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Re: Donald David Livingstone iv

Postby Kyle MacLea » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:09 am

Good to know. I gave Donald a heads-up about this--hopefully he'll check in and see all the discoveries!

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Re: Donald David Livingstone iv

Postby Kyle MacLea » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:28 pm

It seems pretty convincing to me! I hope Donald David gets the information and is equally convinced!

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Re: Donald David Livingstone iv

Postby donald david » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:02 am

Wow, you folks have sure been busy. I will talk to my Uncle and see what else he is aware of. Your knowledge base is immense, and I do know my sisters visited the area about 10 or 11 years ago, and they actually met one of my dad's cousins! I know that Laughlin was an officer perhaps a radio officer in the Dardenelles (Galiopi), while my Grandfather was also there, carting ammunition to the front lines, and returning with the bodies. As I learn/remember more I will advise. Thanks again
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Re: Donald David Livingstone iv

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:57 pm

Hi Donald,
Hope you are enjoying the holiday season with your family and friends.
As you can see from the previous posting I am quite convinced from the census records I have gone through pertaining to your ancestors that the census record trail leads right back to yet another Donald Livingston in this case a Donald Livingston b.1796 in Savary, Morvern who married Sarah Livingston b.about 1815/1816 daughter of Adam and Mary Livingston of Savary, Morvern. Please note my updaated info is that Donald Livingston born 1796 or 1794 was the son of Donald Livingston and Catharine McInnis. (Please note contrary to what I suggested earlier your probable family connection with the famous Donald Livngstone 1728-1816 of Savary Morvern is through Donald Livingston's b.1796 wife Sarah Livingston daughter of Adam Livingston miller of Savary and believed to be son of the famous Donald.)

I look forward to any other information that you might find out from your Uncle and other Livingston relatives. I could only trace your family that lived in Lettermore, Duror Parish area near Ballachulish up to the 1901 Census but no doubt relatives remained in this area after that point. I just dont have information after that point or information on the family at Locharbriggs or whereever they lived in Scotland after they left the highlands and before they went to Calgary, Canada. We had a lucky break however when our researcher Roberta Livingstone was able to find your ancestor Donald David Livingston b.1886 and his wife in a local Calgary cemetery and this Donald seemed to be a perfect match for the Donald Livingston b. 1886 near Ballchulish whose father Donald Livingston b.1856 was born in Keil, Morvern but his family came from nearby Savary Morvern I later discovered. It was Donald's search for work as young man in his twenties that led him to venture from the family tenant farm in Keil, Morvern in Argyllshire to the Lettermore/Ballachulish area of Argyllshire by the early 1870's. He was to find work as a Joiner.



The photo of the old table tomb of John Liivngston b.1700 and Ann McInnis at Keil, Morvern Cemetery was erected by their famous son Donald Livingston 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern. You can access it through our gallery or in the link in the earlier posting from Kyle Mclea at the top of this page. If my hunch is corrrect they are your earliest known ancestors in Argyllshire. This tomb is of great interest to both Clan Livingston and Clan McInnis given that DOnald's parents were of highland clan Livingston and McInnis. There is an early version of a Livingston family coat of arms which is unfortunately faded somewhat with age on the tomb.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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Re: Donald David Livingstone iv

Postby k.l.livingstone » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:38 pm

Hi Donald, Roberta, Kyle and everyone who was helping with this search. I am actually Donald David Livingstone iv's daughter and i would like to confirm for you that i know for certain that Donald and Jean (My great grandparents) did live in Calgary Alberta. Growing up i was always told that Dr. David Livingstone was my ancestor (Uncle). I came across this forum in search of how he is related to me, and laughed when i saw my dad looking into our ancestory as well. If you could help me in just determining how Dr. Livingstone is related (if that is in fact the case).

Kendra
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Re: Donald David Livingstone iv

Postby Kyle MacLea » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:51 pm

There is no firm way of establishing the relatedness of the Doctor, because the family records of the Doctor's family are not exactly solid themselves. We've done everything we could to establish relatedness, but connecting the Doctor to ANY other Livingston/e family seems problematic if you look at the records alone.

On the other hand, a DNA test, we believe, could prove your family's connection to the Doctor quite easily, because we have tested the Doctor's line, descended from his brother. I'm going to send you some information on the DNA test (which is easy, painless, and we can firmly control the privacy of your family!) and also a summary of what we know of your family.

I'll be in touch later today!

Kyle=
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Re: Donald David Livingstone iv

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:00 pm

Hi Kyle,

Great grandson David Livingston Wilson's family tree which is used by the Blantyre museum I think is very accurate and I think gives one a good grounding as far as the original family goes. Steve Wilson has much the same information and has done some fine work trying to locate Dr. Livingston's family in the census records. Beyond info of David Livingston Wilson there is a lot of speculation regarding more distant connections some of which may be the case and others which are not. David Livingston Wilson unfortunately passed away in March in Scotland but perhaps we could get permission to reproduce his detailed family tree chart in the future. It is good starting point for anyone wanting know the essential facts regarding the basic family line of Neil Livingston and Mary Morrison as the family and kin of Dr. David Livingstone. There is unfortunately no known connection between Dr. Livingstone's family and Donald David Livingston's. What I did do is trace the ancestors of Donald David generation by generation through the Scottish Census. Donald David's ancestors at least as far as the census records reveal did not live in close proximity to Dr. Livingston's immediate family in Scotland in the 1800's.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Donald David Livingstone iv

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:34 pm

Hi Kendra,

Welcome to the Maclea Livingstone Society Forum. I did not see any connection to the immediate family of Dr. Livingstone, but it is always possible a more distant connection existed. What I did do is to trace your Livingston families ancestral line as indicated in the 19th century Scottish census records commencing in 1841. You can see your Livingston family line in an earlier posting with this group of messages. Donald David mentioned that his family originated in Ballachuilish Argyll, Scotland and infact I found them in living not far from Ballachulish. The information however revealed that before living near Ballachulish they lived elsewhere in the County of Argyll in the Parish of Morvern at Savary and nearby Lochaline which is where the family of the famous hero Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Battle of Culloden and his family lived. (Please note: An update to the research is that your ancestor Donald Livingston born abt. 1796 was the son of a DOnald Livingston and Catharine McInnis who lived somewhere in Morvern Parish. It was however Donald's wife Sarah Livingston born abt. 1815 or 1816 at Savary, Morvern that was the son of Adam Livingston the Savary, morvern miller who was believed to be a son of the famous Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 so you are probably descended from the famous Donald Livingstone of Savary just not directly from Donald Livingston b. 1796 or 1794 as I previously indicated.)

Jewel and Roberta of our genealogy commmittee located your more recent ancestor and his wife resting place in a cemetery in Alberta and the information perfectly matched that from the Scottish census records I had located so I knew I had the correct Donald Livingston that came to Canada.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Donald David Livingstone iv

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:31 am

Hi All,

I have a bit of a follow up to the 2010 discussion of Donald and kendra's ancestor Donald Livingston b. abt. 1796 an agricultural laborer according to the Scottish census at Morvern who was married to Sarah Livingston who resided at Savary, Morvern in the 1840's and subsequent at nearby Keil, Morvern and whose youngest son was Donald Livingson born in 1856 at Keil, Morvern. I suspected he might be a son or more likely grandson of the famous Donald Livingston 1728 and his wife Jane/Jean Stewart of Savary, Morvern. I now know that this likely not the case. On the other hand is fairly certain that the Sarah Livingsotn born abt. 1815 at Savary who was married to Donald Livingston b. 1796 or 1794 in Morvern is a daughter of Adam Livington the Savary Miller and probable son of the famous Donald Livingstone of Savary 1728-1816 who operated this mill at Savary at one time.

As a update I have however managed to take Donald and Kendra's ancestral line back one more generation. According to Donald Livingston's death record Donald Livingston of Keil, Morvern husband of Sarah Livingston died at the age of 78 years on April 6 1872. I had earlier stated his approximate birth as being about 1796 based on the information from one Scottish census record but with the death record info and that of the 1871 Scottish Census I am more inclined to believe that he was born abt. 1793 or 1794. And one of the more interesting things about this death record is that recorded the parents of the late Donald Livingston of Keil, Morvern agricultural laborer as Donald Livignston and Catharine McInnes. And that gives Donald and Kendra the names of yet another generation of ancestors and another ancestor sure enough with the name Donald. That is unfortunately as far as we can go as the surviving Morvern Parish records begin in the early 1800's and Donald Livingston's baptism or birth in the 1790's is not available nor are there any records of other children of Donald Livingston and Catharine McInnes recorded in the Morvern Parish records unfortunately. It is unfortunate that the Movern record do not include information on Baptisms and Marriages prior to the early 1800's. All we know is that their son Donald was born in the 1790's according the 19th century Scottish Census records in Morvern parish.

Now what is interesting is that his wife Sarah whose maiden name was Livingstone and whom was born in Morvern Parish was the daughter of Adam Livingstone who we know to have been a miller at Savary and understood by some Livingstones to have been a son or grandson of Donald Livingstone and Jane Stewart of Savary, Morvern . There is some variance in terms of her age in the census records and at one point I thought she was born abt. 1816 but her death 1891 death record indicates that Sarah Livingstone widow of Donald Livingston and daughter of Adam Livingston died March 17, 1891 at the age of 78 at Lochaline Morvern near Keil where she and Donald and family had been living after they left nearby Savary in the 1840's. The question in my mind is whether Sarah and her husband were cousins? Unfortunately while I know who Sarah Livingstone's was and his apparent connection to Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern I dont know anything about the parents of her husband Donald Livingston b.1793 who were Donald Livingston and Catharine McInnes though the McInnes family were an ancient Morvern family suggesting the couple were likely of Morvern origin. They were certainly living at Morvern possibly at Savary or nearby when their son Donald was born abt. 1793. So close and yet so far. In any event we now have another generation to add to this ancestral line

Latest ancestral Update for Donald and Kendra
1. descendants Donald Livingstone, Kendra Livingstone
2.Donald Livingstone b. May 24,1922 Locharbriggs, Scotland (moved to ALberta,Canada 1925 with parents)
3.Donald Livingstone b. Dec. 6,1886 b. in Duror Parish near Ballachulish,Argyll d. 1950 m. Jean Learmont Currie 1883-1962 both d. in Calgary, ALberta, Canada buried at Queens Park Cemetery, Calgary, Alberta,Canada
4. Donald Livingstone b. Sept. 13,1856 Keil, Morvern Parish, Argyll m. Ann McLean Jan.5,1886 in Glasgow (may be a death record in Scotland Donald and Ann lived in Duror Parish near Ballachulish for many years. (parish records def. indicate Mclean not McLeod)
5. Donald Livingstone b. abt.1793 in Morvern Parish d. April 6,1872 Keil, Morvern Parish,Argyll m. Sarah Livingstone b. abt. 1812 d. March 17,1891, Lochaline, Morvern daughter of Adam Livingstone (crofter and miller) of Savary, Morvern Parish early 1800's
6. Donald Livingstone b. d. Unknown and Catharine McInnes b. d. unknown lived in Morvern Parish in late 1700's
(as far back one can go with the surviving Morvern parish related records with this Livingston family)

So there you have it. Donald mentioned the family tradition was that there were a number of Donald Livingstons in the family line; in fact I have proven there were at least five prior to him and who knows if there were more before that. Given the fame surrounding MOrverns most famous Donald Livingstone and the possibility that Donald's ancestors were connected somehow to "the" Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 through his great-great grandfather or great-great-grandfather. If not then it appear Donald and sister Kendra are almost certainly related to the famous Donald Livngstone through this Adam Livingstone the miller of Savary in the early 1800's who according to some Livingstons was a son (or grandson?) of Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 and his wife Jane/Jean Stewart of Savary, Morvern. I knew that there had to be some connection that we might be able to prove and I seem to proven at least one and suspect another.

Note: Since this posting I have discovered that Donald Livingston b. abt. 1793 had a sister Catharine Livingston born abt. 1788 who married Myles MacInnes and died at Lochaline Village,Morvern February 6, 1868. According to the Morvern parish records Myles MacInnis and Catharine Livingston had two children Betty b. abt. 1818 and Angus b. abt. 1820 both at Savary.



regards,

Donald
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