McLea/MacLea from Glasgow to Massachusetts

[Kyle MacLea]

Frederick McLea Sutherland b. June 21, 1894 in Lockport. Residing in Lockport and Shelburne, N.S

Wishart McLea Robertson

I have to wonder if these two families are in fact related.

BTW, looking at the records of Wishart McLea Robertson's family, shows a daughter of the original immigrant John McLea residing in NS, Isabella, marrying a Peter Sutherland. This could be the conection we are looking for.

I'm going to put it down as likely, then, that this family of the Canadian Speaker of the Senate is in fact related to the famous Sutherland acting family! I will inquire from Bruce if he believes this to be true. I do find a Frederick Sutherland in his family, descended from Isabella. This could be the Frederick McLea Sutherland who is the progenitor of the acting family.

Unfortunately, the children of John were all females, so there is no one left in this line to test with DNA. I think we should look for the descendants of James McLea, possiby John's brother. Have we looked for him?

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,

Assuming your ancestor Blacksmith John McLea was born abt. 1790 in Rothesay, Bute his parents or Uncles and Aunts could have one of the following: Duncan McLea and Margaret FisherJames McLea and Ann Stewart, Duncan McLea and Mary McConechy, Duncan Mclea and Ann Noble, James Mclea and Janet Bannatyne, Archibald Mclea and Isabel McLeod,John McLea and Agnes McKinley, Archibald McLea and Ann Muir. These couples all lived at Rothesay, Bute circa 1783 to 1802 and had children during this period. Duncan McLea and Ann Noble were married in 1792 so that probably rules them out as parents of John b.1790. Archibald, Duncan, James and John could be Rothesay, Bute McLea first names to watch in your family line. I did not see an Archibald however you do have Duncan, James and John in your McLea familes. You score 3 out of 4 in the Rothesay, Bute name game. Not bad. I have little doubt that John was born in Rothesay, Bute. The Glasgow area in Lanarkshire was a place where some Bute McLea families settled. A widow Jessie Mclea age 53 is listed in 1851Census as born in Rothesay, Bute and living at Gorbals, Lanarkshire near Glasgow with her children Duncan and Jessie. It is unfortunate that John is deceased before the 1841 and 1851 Censuses.

At Hutchesontown, Glasgow circa mid 1850's have couples Duncan McLea and Helen Howatt and the widow Janet is still living at Hutchesontown,Glasgow. I assume that Duncan is the son of John and Janet.

Lochguilhead and Kilmorich, Dunoon and KIlmun, and Inverchaolin, Inveraray and Glenaray, in Eastern Argyll seems to been the final areas for last of the Eastern Argyll Macleas who did not become Livingstons. I believe historically they were connected to the Lindsaig and Bute McLeas. It may be possible through the baptismal records to determine populations and migrations of these McLeas.

Duncan McLea and Margaret Fisher are the parents of a John McLea b.May 2,1790 baptised May 9,1790 at Rothesay, Bute. Following John there was Margaret Mclea born 05 June 1792 baptised 10 June 1792 No village listed in the LDS records. I dont know about the original record. Check this with your research records. My sense is that the wife's family is not from Bute, but regardless this would be my first choice to be your ancestor based upon what you have told me. I wonder if there are any more baptismal records for Duncan Mclea and Margaret Fisher's family in the records?

regards,

Donald

regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

Hi Donald,

I'm going to look at historical flows of these Bute and Lindsaig MacLeas and see what I can determine.

But in the meantime, to answer your questions, you have definitely found the family in Glasgow.

John and Jessie/Janet McLea had 4 children: Margaret, Duncan, Peter, and Jessie. All but Jessie had children. Margaret married James Wilkinson and left children (Jessie, Sarah, James, and John). Duncan married Helen Howatt and had 5 children (John, Helen, James, Jessie, and Duncan). Peter married Janet Brown and had 7 children (John, Jessie, Margaret, James Brown, Peter, Isabella Brown, and Elizabeth McKay).

Duncan and Peter, the sons of John, both named their first born after father John. His son Peter named his second born son James, and this is important. Similarly, also important is the name Duncan, given to John's own first-born son. So we have Duncan, James, and John, as lineal names which link descending generations.

Following the naming convention, there is only one John McLea in Rothesay in the correct time frame: the son of Duncan McLea and Margaret Fisher born in May 1790.

If this lineage is correct, the naming convention holds with John McLea, the first-born son of Duncan McLea, being named after Duncan's father John. Similarly, John McLea and Janet McKay's childen are correctly named as well.

* Margaret for her mother's mother (though both mothers are named Margaret as it happens)
* Duncan after father's father
* Peter after mother's father
* Jessie (nickname of Janet in Scotland, and also Janet McKay's nickname) after mother

All the other recorded John McLeas on Bute are unlikely given naming conventions and ages at the time of marriage/birth of children.

There are Archibalds further up the tree, but not in this generation. It appears that Duncan, father of John, had a brother Archibald. And his grandfather would also be Archibald.

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,

So you think his father might have been a Duncan Mclea.

regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

Yes.... that is my hope anyway. He seems the most likely.

If these birth records contained addresses (specific, not just farms/places), it might be possible to make sense of who lived near to other people and see if it seemed likely. But no such luck.

Do you follow my logic--does it seem reasonable? I can send you the transcribed film of the Rothesay records and you can see if you agree or can find other alternatives?

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,

Do the baptismal and marriage records for Rothesay mention a town or village. Some of the McLea records i have been focusing on refer to a Lockend, Bogancy, Dunalunt or Dunalun Scarel, Makenack and Tregail so maybe you can sort out the families by village. Many of the families from the same villages would likely be related.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,

See my original posting with the names of your potential kin at ROthesay. I have updated it a bit. Also found one more family that of Duncan McLea and Margaret Fisher. They had a son John Mclea born 02 May, 1790 baptised 09,May 1790 in Rothesay, following John his sister Margaret McLea was born 05, June 1792 and baptised 10 June 1792 village not mentioned in the LDS records but might be listed in the original parish record if you could check that. Now your John and Janet Mclea named two of their children Margaret and Duncan if I understood you correctly presumingly because of his parents Duncan and Margaret and Peter for his wifes father and Jessie (Janet) for her or her mother. Any of this make sense. So to my way of understanding the Scots I think this John Mclea son of Duncan Mclea and margaret Fisher that is in the parish records apparently is your ancestors. That is my gut feeling anyways.
You probably already have checked this Duncan out but I thought I would go through the process of better aquainting myself with the challenges and pitfalls of researching your Rothesay McLeas ancestors and getting a sense of just what is there in the records.

regards
Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

Hi Donald,

Yes! Those are exactly the parents I had identified as the likely parents.

From the film of the actual records:

81 John son Duncan McLea taylor b. 2 May 1790, bapt 9 May 1790
Margaret Fisher
In Rothesay


These would be his siblings:

88 Margaret daur Duncan McLea taylor b. 5 Jun 1792, bapt 10 Jun 1792
Margaret Fisher
In Rothesay


96 Duncan son Duncan MacLea taylor b. 2 Apr 1794, bapt 6 Apr 1794
Margaret Fisher
In Rothesay

107 Dugald son Duncan MacLea b. 4 Jun 1796, bapt 7 Jun 1796
Janet daur Taylor now weaver in the Cotton Mill
Margaret Fisher
In Rothesay

And his wife:

103 Janet daur Peter MacKay smith b. 27 Aug 1795, bapt 31 Aug 1795
Elisabeth Glass
In Rothesay


So, if this is his parents (Duncan and Margaret Fisher), then this is their marriage:


33 Duncan McLea taylor Margaret Fisher bk. 11 Apr 1789, m. 21 Apr 1789
s/t John McLea taylor d/t Duncan Fisher in Hunter’s Butt
in Greenan

This would be Duncan's future wife's birth:

8 Margaret daur Duncan Fisher b. 9 Apr 1766, bapt 13 Apr 1766
Margaret Smith


This would then be Duncan's siblings:

14 Margaret daur John MacLea fisherman** b. 19 Oct 1766, bapt 26 Oct 1766
Janet Brown
In Meikle Kilmory ** either error or he changed professions

28 Helen daur John MacLea taylor b., bapt 10 Mar 1771
Janet Brown
In Greenan

41 Dugald son John MacLea b. 26 Sep 1775, bapt 1 Oct 1775
Janet Brown
In Greenan

44 Archibald son John MacLea taylor b. 3 Apr 1777, bapt 6 Apr 1777
Janet Brown
In Greenan


Given these records (there are no other John MacLea taylors in the parish register), we can conclude this is Duncan's father John's birth:

2 John M’Lea Janet Brown cottar bk. 18 Jun 1763
s/t Archibald M’Lea in Leanachail
in Ambrosemore in
the Parish of Kingarth

My supposition is that this is John's parents, chiefly because of Archibald's profession:

Archibald McLea Helen Bannatyne bk. 2 Jan 1723, m. 23 Jan 1723
Tailor in Kilmory d/t the deceast Donald Bannatyne sometimes in
McNeil Achiwillich


If this is correct, these would be John's siblings:

108 Catharine daur Archibald McLea b. 13 Mar 1724, 15 Mar 1724
Tailor in Kilmory
Helen Bannatyne

115 Dugald son Archibald McLea b. 19 Aug 1726, bapt 21 Aug 1726
Helen Bannatyne
In Makenoch

135 Dugald son Archibald Lea b. 16 Mar 1731, bapt 18 Mar 1731
Tailour in Scalpsy
Helen Bannatyne


Then, that would make the birth of Archibald right at the time of the earliest records in Rothesay.

I could not find any records of Archibald in the records of Kingarth parish either.

I can send you my entire file of transcriptions if you'd like to look!

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

HI Kyle,
Yes absolutely your ancestor John McLeas parents were Duncan McLea and Margaret Fisher of Rothesay, Bute. I totally agree with your research. Glad you found John and Margaret's other sibblings. I guessed there was a Margaret and it turned out to be right. I did not input all the scottish names but would have eventually come up the others given about 20 centuries using the search method I using. In any event finding John b.1790 and Margaret born 1792 I thought something looked right.

Ok where is Hunters butt, Grenan and why would anyone name their village after someone's posterior?
Perhaps your ancestors had a sense of humor. I dont think Grenan is actually in Bute. Could it be that the family lived somewhere else before Rothesay or am I confused.
regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,

No thats ok. Kilmory parish records start at 1701. Does that mean you cant go farther back that Archibald?

Looks like you are on the right track beginning with Duncan Mclea and Margaret Fisher.

regards,

Donald