Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Greg,
I agree with your theory that James D. Livingston died in the War of 1812 and his wife Sara Forsythe then married James Carothers. If so then likely he was with the New York or Pennsylvania Militia. I had relatives on both sides of the conflict; some in the Upper Canada Militia and one or two in the New York State Militia.
Prelimary check reveals one James Livingston a private who was a Pennsylvania Volunteer in the war of 1812. John may have access to this list which should hopefully have some info on this soldier. Then again there would have been a few James Livingstons in Pennsylvania at that time, so it may prove difficult to certain its your James Livingston.

regards,

Donald

[Greg Livingston]

Donald,

I saw the PA roster today too. I'm guessing it is but, as you said, could very well not be my James. I hadn't thought about looking for a James Livingston on the NY roster but will check this evening. Of course, there are probably several James Livingstons in NY in that time frame also.

[jmlivingstone]

Donald/Greg,

I think I have just picked up on an error in the posting on Ancestry, they have James David Livingstone listed as dying on 10 Dec. 1865 at Walkersville, Shelby, MO.

It appears it was actually James Carothers, second husband of Sarah Forsythe who died at Walkersville, an easy mistake to make, as both were born 1788, see below.

James Carothers b. 1766 married Ayles Carothers, daughter of John and Ayles Carothers. James and Ayles moved to Beaver County, Pennsylvania before the Whiskey Rebellion in 1794.

They had one son, James b. 1788.

James b. 1788 married Sarah Forsythe Livingston. They lived on a farm 9 miles from Pittsburg in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. They and their 8 children, moved to Ralls County, Missouri in 1836 and on into Shelby County, Missouri in 1837.
They settled about 4 miles northwest of the center of Shelbina, MO. James served in the Black Hawk Indian War and the War of 1812, including the Battle of New Orleans in 1814. He died December 10, 1865 and is buried in the old family burial ground on the 160 acre old homestead, Sec. 23, Twp. 57, R. 11 of Shelby, County.

He willed this farm to his son Andrew Jackson Carothers b. 1834. The list of James b. 1788 children who also came from Pennsylvania to Missouri are:

Armstrong Carothers b. 1815
Louis Ferree Carothers b. 1816
Mary F. Carothers b. 1821
John Calvin Carothers b. 1823
James Harvey Carothers b. 1825
Sarah M. Carothers b. 1828
Elvira Ann Carothers b. 1831
Andrew Jackson Carothers b. 1834.

John

[Greg Livingston]

I saw that too, John, and realized it was incorrect right away since there was no record of James D. Livingston after 1812 that we could find and James Carothers married Sarah Forsythe Livingston in what appeared to be either 1812-1814 time frame. Not sure how they got the two mixed up like that.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John/Greg,

Yes absolutely that is an error on J.D's death date. No chance he lived to 1865. Pretty certain that was a mistake in that Carrothers research. Somebody got it wrong. Its crystal clear in the census records as well that Sarah remarried early on in the 1800's to a second husband James Carrothers and that her first husband James D. Liivngston must have died in the 1812-1814 period conceivably during the War of 1812 as a soldier in the Pennsylvania or New York State Militia.

regards,

Donald

[jmlivingstone]

Not sure that the link & other item below, will be of any help in this discussion, it does contain a lot of info on lowland Livingstones, who settled around New York & New Jersey area, so may be of interest.
The second item about Robert Livingstone, is from a Carothers family site,

John

http://www.robertsewell.ca/falkirk.html

The first of the Livingston name to arrive in America was Robert Livingston, who came from Scotland in 1674. The family had been one of prominence on the other side of the Atlantic and he held important public posts after getting to America. In 1679 he married Alida Schuyler, sister of Peter Schuyler. They had two sons: Philip and Robert.
Their eldest son was Philip Livingston. Philip had for sons: Robert, the oldest, Peter, Philip and William. Both Peter and Philip were members of the Continental Congress, with Philip signing the Declaration of Independence. William became the Governor of New Jersey during the Revolutionary War and was a member of the Constitutional Convention of 1787. Sarah Van Brugh Livingston, daughter of Governor William Livingston, married John Jay, who became the first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States.
Robert Livingston, the 2nd son of Robert and Alida Livingston, inherited 13,000 acres on the Hudson River. His son, Robert, married Margaret Beekman and became Judge on the New York Supreme Court.
Robert and Margaret's son, Robert R. Livingston, was a member of the Continental Congress and one of the five people who drafted the Declaration of Independence. He became the 1st Chancellor of the State of New York and, as such, administered the oath of office to George Washington, as 1st President of the United States. Robert R. Livingston's brother, Edward, became Secretary of State under President Martin Van Buren, the 8th President of the United States (1837-1841).

[Greg Livingston]

I've seen both of those and there seems to be enough to tickle some interest but not enough to tie in....yet. One of these days I'll be in a position to join the DNA search.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Greg,

Something to consider in the future when it works for you as it will quite likely will help identify which AMerican Livingston family group you ultimately derive from. Significant progress has been made since the Late Robert Livingstone got the project going and there are significant number of Livingstones participating in the project worldwide.

regards,

Donald

[Greg Livingston]

I'm getting close! During lunch today, I did a search on James Duane Livingston 1786 and came across a book titled "Ancestors and Descendants of James Duane Livingston, 1786-1837" by James D. Livingston that was written in the '80s. There are only 2 copies that I could find online, one in the New York State Library and the other in the New York Historical Society Library. So, I've tasked my nephew that lives 10 blocks from there to go and look at it to get some info. Meanwhile, I also discovered it is in the Family History Library so I'll find the closest LDS Family HIstory Center and see if they can get the microfiche for me to look at. Now, what is really interesting is the notes about it. They are as follows:
"Robert Livingston (1654-1728) emigrated from Scotland to Albany, New York in 1673/74, and married Alida Schuyler in 1679. In 1686, he received a grant for the Lordship and Manor of Livingston (originally 2,000 acres along the Hudson, expanded later to 160,000 acres). James Duane Livingston (1786-1837) was a direct descendant in the fifth generation, was the first supervisor of the newly created town of Hyde Park (along the Hudson), New York. Descendants and relatives lived in New York, New England, Washington, D.C., California and elsewhere."

I REALLY need to get that book/microfiche!! I would also like to see if I can get in touch with James D. Livingston that wrote the book for any other information he might have.

<doing the happy dance>

[Kyle MacLea]

Cool!

One minor caveat is that the association of families involved related to the New York Livingstons does not seem to look kindly on anyone questioning their records. So while there might be a solid connection between James D. and Robert Livingston, it could also be a fair bit of conjecture, but conjecture that the Livingston family association (forget what it's called) agrees with and has approved. If that is the case, it still might not be solid but just may be "blessed" by their approval. These things sometimes then become FACT even if the facts with primary sources are not strong.

My rant above pre-judges the evidence given... it may be completely rock-solid. In fact, I really hope it is!

And in the mean time--get copies and share what you learn!

Great find, Greg!

Kyle=