Hi Greg,
At this point I am thinking perhaps a James Livingston or William Livingston for a possible father for your ancestor William born 1810 that possibly shows up in the Pennsylvania census of 1820 or 1830. One possibility is that your ancestor William W. Livingston was born in 1810 in Mifflin County or Centre County to a James Livingston b. abt. 1782. and died 28 December 1862 in Jefferson Township, Aleghany County, PA. Mifflin County is beside Centre County. I dont know that any of this info is correct but it may be worth checking out the possibility that William was born 1810 in Mifflin County or Centre County and died about 1862 in Alleghany County.
THere was also a family of Livingstons in Centre County that probably included the William that Jewel located. I am thinking we should also look for a James Livington of Centre County, who married 13 December 1807 Esther Benner and could theoretically have had a son William born in 1810 as well. I would note all the William James and John Livingstons in the 1820 and 1830 and pay special attention to their township and County locations comparing them to see if they are possibly realated as a first step to try and locate a father for William Livingston born 1810. First I want to see where William born 1810 was in 1840 and then look at 1830 which may be a bit of a challenge as William may not have married then or was still lving with his parents or did not own property. I need to see 1840 before I can see if 1830 is of any help to us. RIght now I am curious about Centre County or neighbouring Mifflin County if William b. 1810 did not originate from Alleghany County but went there after his marriage. Centre or neighbouring Mifflin has an advantage as it seems to be mentioned in records referring to James and William and a John before them and is not that far from Aleghany County. It is possible that William was not living in ALeghany County before 1850 or 1840 and we then concllude he came from somewhere else. The only possible somewhere else I am seeing sofar is Mifflin County or Centre County prior to 1850 or 1840. We shall see what 1840 has to tell us.
regards,
Donald
Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York
Hello Donald,
In the 1790 census for Pennsylvania:
William Levingston, westmoreland County, Unity TWP. 1 M. 16 & over, 4 M. 0-15, F. 3 (no age span given)
James Levingston, Mifflin Cty. 1 M 16 & over, 4 F.
1800 U.S. census.Pennsylvania
William Livingston: Chester CTY. West Town TWP, 1 M. 45 & up, 1 F. 0-9,1 F. 45 & over
William Livingston: Lancaster Cty. Strasburg TWP. 3 M. 0-9, 2 M.26-44, 1 F. 0-9,1 F. 26-44
William Livingston: Washington Cty. Peters Twp. 1 M.10-15, 1 M. 16-25, 1 F. 16-25, 1 F. 45 & over
William Livingston, Centre Cty. Potter Twp. 1 M 26-44, 1 F. 0-9, 1 F. 16-25
James Livingston: Mifflin Cty. Armagh Twp. 1 M. 10-15,1 M.16-25, 1 M.26-44, 1 F. 10-15,1 F. 26-44
1810 U.S. census Pennsylvania
William Livingston: Chester Cty. West Town Twp. 1 M 16-25, 1 M. 45 & over,1 F. 45 & over
William Livingston: Lancaster Cty. Salsbury Twp. 3 M.0-9, 3 M.10-15, 1 M. 26-44, 1 F.0-9, 1 F. 10-15,1 F. 26-44
William Livingston: Mercer Cty. Lackawannock Twp. 3 M.0-9, 1 M. 26-44, 2 F. 0-9,1 F.26-44
there were 2 or 3 James Livingston in the Pennsylvania 1810 census but it was unreadable.
1820 U.S. census for Pennsylvania
William Levingston: Mercer Cty. Lackawannock Twp. 3 M. 0-9, 2 M.10-15, 1 M.26-44, 1 F. 0-9, 1 F. 10-15, 1 F.16-25, 1 F. 26-44.
William Levingston: Centre Cty. Potter Twp. 1 M.0-9,2 M. 10-15, 1 M. 45 & over, 3 F.0-9,2 F. 16-25, 1 F. 26-44
James Levingston: Centre Cty.Potter Twp. 3 M.0-9,1 M.26-44, 2 F.0-9,1 F. 26-44
(Living next door to this James was a Daniel or David Levingston)
David or Daniel Levingston: 1 M.0-9,1 M.10-15,1 M.45& over, 1 F. 45 & over.
I don't have acces to the 1840 census so when I go out tomorrow I will run to the library and see what I can find.
Jewel
In the 1790 census for Pennsylvania:
William Levingston, westmoreland County, Unity TWP. 1 M. 16 & over, 4 M. 0-15, F. 3 (no age span given)
James Levingston, Mifflin Cty. 1 M 16 & over, 4 F.
1800 U.S. census.Pennsylvania
William Livingston: Chester CTY. West Town TWP, 1 M. 45 & up, 1 F. 0-9,1 F. 45 & over
William Livingston: Lancaster Cty. Strasburg TWP. 3 M. 0-9, 2 M.26-44, 1 F. 0-9,1 F. 26-44
William Livingston: Washington Cty. Peters Twp. 1 M.10-15, 1 M. 16-25, 1 F. 16-25, 1 F. 45 & over
William Livingston, Centre Cty. Potter Twp. 1 M 26-44, 1 F. 0-9, 1 F. 16-25
James Livingston: Mifflin Cty. Armagh Twp. 1 M. 10-15,1 M.16-25, 1 M.26-44, 1 F. 10-15,1 F. 26-44
1810 U.S. census Pennsylvania
William Livingston: Chester Cty. West Town Twp. 1 M 16-25, 1 M. 45 & over,1 F. 45 & over
William Livingston: Lancaster Cty. Salsbury Twp. 3 M.0-9, 3 M.10-15, 1 M. 26-44, 1 F.0-9, 1 F. 10-15,1 F. 26-44
William Livingston: Mercer Cty. Lackawannock Twp. 3 M.0-9, 1 M. 26-44, 2 F. 0-9,1 F.26-44
there were 2 or 3 James Livingston in the Pennsylvania 1810 census but it was unreadable.
1820 U.S. census for Pennsylvania
William Levingston: Mercer Cty. Lackawannock Twp. 3 M. 0-9, 2 M.10-15, 1 M.26-44, 1 F. 0-9, 1 F. 10-15, 1 F.16-25, 1 F. 26-44.
William Levingston: Centre Cty. Potter Twp. 1 M.0-9,2 M. 10-15, 1 M. 45 & over, 3 F.0-9,2 F. 16-25, 1 F. 26-44
James Levingston: Centre Cty.Potter Twp. 3 M.0-9,1 M.26-44, 2 F.0-9,1 F. 26-44
(Living next door to this James was a Daniel or David Levingston)
David or Daniel Levingston: 1 M.0-9,1 M.10-15,1 M.45& over, 1 F. 45 & over.
I don't have acces to the 1840 census so when I go out tomorrow I will run to the library and see what I can find.
Jewel
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Roberta Ann
- Posts: 602
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:56 pm
Re: Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York
Hi Greg;
The children of James D. Livingston b. c. 1786 and Sarah Forsyth b. Jan. 1, 1789 d. July 14, 1874:
John D. Livingston b. Mar. 2, 1807
Joseph Livingston b. Sept. 21, 1808
William W. Livingston b. May 10, 1810 d. Dec. 28, 1862
James Darragh Livingston b. Feb. 11, 1812
Greg, I put information via the edit option. Sorry about that: it is on page one.
Sarah Forsyth is the daughter of James Forsyth b. Jan. 1, 1756 Chester C., Pa. and Susannah Kuykendall b. 1767 in Allegheny Co., or Washington Co., Pa.
Nancy J. Livingston d/o William W. 1810 married William Forsyth s/o William Forsyth b. April 23, 1787 Mifflin Twp., Allegheny Nov. 27, 1861and Ellen Williams b. c. 1790. Nancy J. and William married Nov. 27, 1861.
James Darragh Livingston 1860 Census, Post Office McKeesport. Allegheny, Pa.
James D. age 48
Eliza P. age 25
John C. age 16
Joseph age 23
Mary E. age 13
Nancy J. age 10
Regards;
Roberta
The children of James D. Livingston b. c. 1786 and Sarah Forsyth b. Jan. 1, 1789 d. July 14, 1874:
John D. Livingston b. Mar. 2, 1807
Joseph Livingston b. Sept. 21, 1808
William W. Livingston b. May 10, 1810 d. Dec. 28, 1862
James Darragh Livingston b. Feb. 11, 1812
Greg, I put information via the edit option. Sorry about that: it is on page one.
Sarah Forsyth is the daughter of James Forsyth b. Jan. 1, 1756 Chester C., Pa. and Susannah Kuykendall b. 1767 in Allegheny Co., or Washington Co., Pa.
Nancy J. Livingston d/o William W. 1810 married William Forsyth s/o William Forsyth b. April 23, 1787 Mifflin Twp., Allegheny Nov. 27, 1861and Ellen Williams b. c. 1790. Nancy J. and William married Nov. 27, 1861.
James Darragh Livingston 1860 Census, Post Office McKeesport. Allegheny, Pa.
James D. age 48
Eliza P. age 25
John C. age 16
Joseph age 23
Mary E. age 13
Nancy J. age 10
Regards;
Roberta
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York
Hi Roberta,
Excellent work. I was wondering about that James Livingston and Sara Forsythe family last night as I noticed they had son named William and James born about the right time but did not see the completed family information you have located. What do you think? Sounds like that could be the right one to me. I thought that Greg's family might have had some connection to either Mifflin or neighbouring Centre County.
Not too far from Alleghany County either.
Dont know the history of Western or central Pennsylvania exstensively but I understand there was alot of Scotch Irish settlement there in the 1700's, persons of presbyterian Scottish origin whose families settled in the North of Ireland in the 1600's. I know some of the Eastern Counties had lots of German settlers, but I am wondering if Greg's Livingstons arent from Northern Ireland and of Scotch Irish extraction being located in the central and Western part of Pennsylania. That is nothing more than speculation at this point. This possibility needs to be researched before one draws any final conclusions.
If not Northern Ireland then as he suggested descended from Robert Livingston's New York State family. I dont think Greg's Livingstons are of German origin perhaps as he said descended from Robert Livingston although I would think some of those New York families would settle in the Counties of Eastern Pennsylvania in close proximity to the New York State border where there would be some of Robert Livingstons descendants possibly connected to families originating from ALbany County. I was wondering if Greg ancestors were part of a Scotch Irish group that settled in central and Western Pennsylvania. I have not done research on Livingstons originating from Northern Ireland but I intend to put together a list of Livingston families in Northern Ireland in the 1830's. I will see what can found out about Mifflin County settlement history and see if there is any chance Greg's family is Scotch Irish.
regards,
Donald
Excellent work. I was wondering about that James Livingston and Sara Forsythe family last night as I noticed they had son named William and James born about the right time but did not see the completed family information you have located. What do you think? Sounds like that could be the right one to me. I thought that Greg's family might have had some connection to either Mifflin or neighbouring Centre County.
Not too far from Alleghany County either.
Dont know the history of Western or central Pennsylvania exstensively but I understand there was alot of Scotch Irish settlement there in the 1700's, persons of presbyterian Scottish origin whose families settled in the North of Ireland in the 1600's. I know some of the Eastern Counties had lots of German settlers, but I am wondering if Greg's Livingstons arent from Northern Ireland and of Scotch Irish extraction being located in the central and Western part of Pennsylania. That is nothing more than speculation at this point. This possibility needs to be researched before one draws any final conclusions.
If not Northern Ireland then as he suggested descended from Robert Livingston's New York State family. I dont think Greg's Livingstons are of German origin perhaps as he said descended from Robert Livingston although I would think some of those New York families would settle in the Counties of Eastern Pennsylvania in close proximity to the New York State border where there would be some of Robert Livingstons descendants possibly connected to families originating from ALbany County. I was wondering if Greg ancestors were part of a Scotch Irish group that settled in central and Western Pennsylvania. I have not done research on Livingstons originating from Northern Ireland but I intend to put together a list of Livingston families in Northern Ireland in the 1830's. I will see what can found out about Mifflin County settlement history and see if there is any chance Greg's family is Scotch Irish.
regards,
Donald
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Roberta Ann
- Posts: 602
- Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:56 pm
Re: Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York
Hi Donald;
Thank you. I have been searching for James D. Livingston b.c.1786. No results; so maybe he was from Northern Ireland.
There is lots written about the Large family and the Forsyth family. My guess is a connection to the New York Livingstons.
However, I have no proof. Unless there is something in the Large or Forsyth family histories that could tell Greg if there is a connection. I know about the Germans coming to Pennsylvania; I just don't believe that James D. is of German origin. James D.: I couldn't locate in the 1820 U.S. Census. He could be there, but I couldn't find him. I wonder what makes Greg think that his ancestry is of the New York Livingston, anyway.
Regards;
Roberta
Thank you. I have been searching for James D. Livingston b.c.1786. No results; so maybe he was from Northern Ireland.
There is lots written about the Large family and the Forsyth family. My guess is a connection to the New York Livingstons.
However, I have no proof. Unless there is something in the Large or Forsyth family histories that could tell Greg if there is a connection. I know about the Germans coming to Pennsylvania; I just don't believe that James D. is of German origin. James D.: I couldn't locate in the 1820 U.S. Census. He could be there, but I couldn't find him. I wonder what makes Greg think that his ancestry is of the New York Livingston, anyway.
Regards;
Roberta
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York
Hi Roberta,
The James Livingston that lived in Centre County is likely his father, although he probably lived in Mifflin County as well. The Counties are side by side. The Livingstons William and James Livingstons in Centre and Mifflin Counties I am reasonably sure are all related to Greg we just have try and sort them all out which is difficult with the earlier census records which dont give us much in way of detail. We could see if we can match the number of ages of the children of James Livingston born 1782 at the time but of course your list may list all the children. It is worth a try however. Regardless you are obviously on the right track and have found his family and some great info from which to work from. And I am thinking there is some chance that we can theorize where this family originated from. I gonna give a try in any event. Records before the 1800 Census may be few and far between depending on what survived from the Presbyterian ministers at the time in these Counties of Mifflin, Centre and Alleghany, PA. Obviously some of the local historians in Miffllin and Centre Counties may be an invaluable source of help to Greg on trying to sort out this James Livingston and Sara Forsythe and the possible connection to his ancestor William Livingston b.1810. I am wondering about a Scotch Irish origin for this family but Greg seems to be leaning towards the possibililty of a connection to the old Robert Livingston family of New York State of Livington Manor. I would reccomend he consider both possibilities.
regards,
Donald
The James Livingston that lived in Centre County is likely his father, although he probably lived in Mifflin County as well. The Counties are side by side. The Livingstons William and James Livingstons in Centre and Mifflin Counties I am reasonably sure are all related to Greg we just have try and sort them all out which is difficult with the earlier census records which dont give us much in way of detail. We could see if we can match the number of ages of the children of James Livingston born 1782 at the time but of course your list may list all the children. It is worth a try however. Regardless you are obviously on the right track and have found his family and some great info from which to work from. And I am thinking there is some chance that we can theorize where this family originated from. I gonna give a try in any event. Records before the 1800 Census may be few and far between depending on what survived from the Presbyterian ministers at the time in these Counties of Mifflin, Centre and Alleghany, PA. Obviously some of the local historians in Miffllin and Centre Counties may be an invaluable source of help to Greg on trying to sort out this James Livingston and Sara Forsythe and the possible connection to his ancestor William Livingston b.1810. I am wondering about a Scotch Irish origin for this family but Greg seems to be leaning towards the possibililty of a connection to the old Robert Livingston family of New York State of Livington Manor. I would reccomend he consider both possibilities.
regards,
Donald
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Greg Livingston
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:42 pm
- Location: Ankeny, IA, USA
Re: Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York
Family lore is that we are related. Just something that my Father and Aunt have told us. Also heard that from my Grandfather's second family.
I will need to take a look at what I have back home and match up to what has been posted so far.
Thank you all for your assistance. I wish I had the time and the resources you obviously have.
I will need to take a look at what I have back home and match up to what has been posted so far.
Thank you all for your assistance. I wish I had the time and the resources you obviously have.
Greg Livingston
Clan Commissioner
Ankeny, Iowa, USA
Clan Commissioner
Ankeny, Iowa, USA
Re: Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York
Hello Donald,
This is the 1840 Census for Pennsylvania.
Allegheny County, Jefferson TWP.
William W. Livingston: 1 M.0-4, 1 M.5-9,1 M.30-39, 1 F.0-4, 1 F. 5-9, 1 F.30-39
Mercer County, Lackawannock TWP.
William Livingston: 2 M. 10-14,1 M. 20-29,1 M.50-59, 1 F.10-14, 1 F. 50-59
James Livingston: 1 M.20-29, 1 F. 10-14, 1 F.20-29
Hugh Livingston:1 M.15-19, 1 M.60-69, 2 F.20-29, 1 F. 60-69
Centre County, Potter TWP.
William Livingston: 1 M.5-9, 1 M.10-14,1 M.15-19, 1 M. 50-59, 1 F.0-4, 1 F.5-9, 2 F.10-14,1 F.30-39
Daniel Livingston: 1 M. 80-89, 1 F. 50-59
These 2 Levingstons listed below I have no area for accept Pennsylvania and they were lliving next door to each other. These old records are so difficult to read and when I had the library print them out the form didn't have the County or Twp. printed on it. If you think it is necessary I will go back and look them up again.
William Levingston: 1 M.20-29, 1 F. 20-29,
John Levingston: 1 M. 60-69, 1 F.5-9, 1 F.20-29, 1 F. 60-69
Jewel
This is the 1840 Census for Pennsylvania.
Allegheny County, Jefferson TWP.
William W. Livingston: 1 M.0-4, 1 M.5-9,1 M.30-39, 1 F.0-4, 1 F. 5-9, 1 F.30-39
Mercer County, Lackawannock TWP.
William Livingston: 2 M. 10-14,1 M. 20-29,1 M.50-59, 1 F.10-14, 1 F. 50-59
James Livingston: 1 M.20-29, 1 F. 10-14, 1 F.20-29
Hugh Livingston:1 M.15-19, 1 M.60-69, 2 F.20-29, 1 F. 60-69
Centre County, Potter TWP.
William Livingston: 1 M.5-9, 1 M.10-14,1 M.15-19, 1 M. 50-59, 1 F.0-4, 1 F.5-9, 2 F.10-14,1 F.30-39
Daniel Livingston: 1 M. 80-89, 1 F. 50-59
These 2 Levingstons listed below I have no area for accept Pennsylvania and they were lliving next door to each other. These old records are so difficult to read and when I had the library print them out the form didn't have the County or Twp. printed on it. If you think it is necessary I will go back and look them up again.
William Levingston: 1 M.20-29, 1 F. 20-29,
John Levingston: 1 M. 60-69, 1 F.5-9, 1 F.20-29, 1 F. 60-69
Jewel
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York
Hi Roberta,
Yes I think we can rule out German origins. Either a Robert Livingston or a Scotch Irish family was the way I was leaning. I wonder if Greg has detemined if they were land owners. The land records sometime indicate where the place of origin of the buyer if they are out of State. In any event land records may be located in Mifflin and Centre Counties indicating when these Livingstons first settled on their farm or farms in Pennsylvania which will at least give Greg some idea when they first settled. I was wondering if James Livingston had a father JOhn who might have been the original settler but I not sure that I had that correct.
regards,
Donald
Yes I think we can rule out German origins. Either a Robert Livingston or a Scotch Irish family was the way I was leaning. I wonder if Greg has detemined if they were land owners. The land records sometime indicate where the place of origin of the buyer if they are out of State. In any event land records may be located in Mifflin and Centre Counties indicating when these Livingstons first settled on their farm or farms in Pennsylvania which will at least give Greg some idea when they first settled. I was wondering if James Livingston had a father JOhn who might have been the original settler but I not sure that I had that correct.
regards,
Donald
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2773
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: Possible connection to the Livingston's of New York
Hi Jewel,
Thats fantastic.
Ok so he was in the 1840 census at Aleghany County with 2 daughters and 2 sons. But we cant easily make to the transitional link to either Mifflin or Centre County but seems pretty clear he comes from that area and his father was James Livingston. His age about 30 so in the 1830 he is 20 and 1820 10.
regards,
Donald
Thats fantastic.
Ok so he was in the 1840 census at Aleghany County with 2 daughters and 2 sons. But we cant easily make to the transitional link to either Mifflin or Centre County but seems pretty clear he comes from that area and his father was James Livingston. His age about 30 so in the 1830 he is 20 and 1820 10.
regards,
Donald