1665 Donegal Hearth Tax: Relevant Names

[Kyle MacLea]

And more information from Michael McKinley--this time from the 1665 Donegal Hearth Tax. Thanks so much, Michael!

ftp://kitenet.net/pub/home/kyle/1665_Do ... y_Roll.pdf

Enjoy!

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,

I think those are the ones Mr. McCLay Wilson was showing me last year. He has located those records I think from the 1600's and that is probably one way how he traced his family with Irish roots that settled in the United States to Donegal.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,
I would think as previous discussed that McClay Wilson's Donegal, Ireland ancestor's may be descended a family that originally lived in Scotland like these old McClays that I located in the 1600's in Glasgow area and Balfron Parish.

These McClays were in early Glasgow Commissary Court Records
1. Agnes McClay spouse to John Ure in Glines of Burnsshogill Parish of Balfron 25/07/1665
2. Margaret McClay Spouse to James McSligach in little Cantray 06/12/1677
3.David McClay in Dallaschyl and the deceased Katharine Ewen Villie his spouse 07/06/1681
4.Robert McClay Merchant Burgess of Glasgow 15/05/1663
5.Isobel McClay spous to Umphra Gilchreist wobster in Barschogell Parish of Killairne 05/03/1621

It is quite conceivable that his ancestors may have come from the Glasgow or Balfron Parish or somewhere in that general area of Scotland before they settled at Donegal, Ireland.

regards,

Donald

[Bachuil]

That is a very interesting collection of names.

I can't remember the details but for many years my father was in contact with a Canadian Boggs who was convinced that his family were Livingstone/MacLeas.

Many of the other names could also be MacLea.

There is one Donlevy which is a variation of MacLea. It would be very interesting to find out if they had our DNA or the O'Neill DNA. Many Dunlevy/Dunleavy DNA results show that they are O'Neill so could not be the descendants of the Mac Duinnshleibhe Kings of Ulidia.

The Ulaid rigdamnai [persons eligible to be king] alone used the name Mac Duinnshleibhe
“So for instance when after 1137 the Dal Fiatach kingship was confined to the descendants of Donn Sleibe Mac Eochada (slain in 1091), the rigdamnai set themselves apart from the rest of the family by using the name Mac Duinnshleibhe." Irish Kings and High Kings Francis J. Byrne (B.T. Batsford, London 1973), p. 127ff

As you can see from this the "true" Mac Duinnshleibhe were of the Dal Fiatach - a completely different line from the O'Neill. Therefore many Irish Dunleavys with the O'Neill signature cannot be true" Mac Duinnshleibhe. It would be interesting to find out why these people have the name DunLeavy and what its origins are.

In Irish Pedigrees – The Stem of the Dunlevy family, Princes of Ulidia, O'Hart says
“Tuirmach Teamrach, the 81st Monarch of Ireland had a son named Fiach Fearmara, who was ancestor of the Kings of Argyle and Dalriada, in Scotland: this Fiach was also the ancestor of MacDunshleibe and O’Dunsleibhe, anglicised Dunlevy, Dunlief, Dunlop, Levingstone and Livingstone. …
.According to Dr O’Donovan descendents of this family (Cu-Uladh the son the last MacDunshleibe King of Ulidia), soon after the English invasion of Ireland, passed into Scotland, where they changed their name.”

[Andrew Lancaster]

Hi Niall

A bit of an update on some of the lines being discussed:

1. The McClays of Donegal have a distinct DNA signature which we nickname "MacWho" which is shared by a Livingstone family that lived near Glamis, and was often recorded in registers with spellings like Livitch. They also have McLay and MacLay matches who seem to cluster around Clackmannan. They have matches with other Scottish surnames also and the general impression is that they can be traced in modern times mainly the area where the highlands meet the lowlands.

2. We now have several Dunleavey, Dunlavy etc tests, and while there are at least a few male lines with this surname all of them look pretty Irish. One of those lines is the M222 line associated with Niall of the 9 hostages.

3. The Boggs family in the US which felt itself to be a Livingston family, is confirmed by DNA. We have several Livingstons matching them. These Livingstons have been traced to the mining community of Fife, which make it difficult to say whether they were originally highland or lowland.

Best Regards
Andrew

[Bachuil]

Thanks for that Andrew.

This is quite an adventure!.

N

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hello Baron,
Thank-you for your comments. I agree completely with Andrew regarding his assessment of the "Irish" Dunlevys. All things point to them being an old Irish family rooted in Donegal and the DNA results so far as Andrew has pointed out suggest an ancient O'Neil connection rather than with any ancient Irish ancestor of our Western Argyll Mclea-Livingstones.This is what I suspected but I am glad to hear that the DNA results so far seem to confirm that. That being said more Dunlevys or Dunleavys need to be tested before we can be 100% certain of the origin of all Dunlevys in Ireland either of ancient O'Neil or some other family origin.

Although the McClays of Mr McClay Wilson are said to originated also in Donegal, Ireland before his family left for America in the 1800's my understanding is that they probably have no ancestral connection to these Donegal Dunlevys and his MCCLays which show up in hearth tax records from the early 1600's in Donegal are likely so called "Scotch Irish" that is to say they are Presbyterian/protestant Scots that likely settled in Ireland in the early 1600's. I thought the Glasgow and Balfron Parish McCLays interesting because i knew that some of the Scots that settled in Ireland in the early 1600's came from Glasgow likely. Whether these McClays from Glasgow and Balfron Parish are actually related to McLay Wilsons ancestors I dont really know for certain. I think Mr. McClay Wilson will however be interested in seeing these very early Glasgow Commissary Court records of folks with the name of McClay. In my search of the Commissary Court records in early Scotland these were the only McClay results I came up with. I also found you will notice elsewhere in the recent forum messages some early Maconlea, Mconlea and Macinlea results which also may be of interest to you. I have been doing some research on these families that lived in Clackmananshire area in the past so I was interested in learning from Andrew about the test results. I will have hunt for some of the old postings. Although we spend alot time here in discussion on Livingstones it is nice to introduce Mcleas and McClays into the mix from time to time.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi All,

Continuing the previous discussion. Balfron and Glasgow are both in Stirlingshire. "Craig" in an earlier posting from December 22, 2009 noted that in the years 1618-1621 there were records pertaining to Ando and Patrick McClae of Balfron and Killearn, Stirlingshire and from 1645 to 1646 McClae births pertaining to fathers Ando and Patrick McClae for Baldernock which is about 10 miles from Balfron. Presumingly McClae is just another version of the McCLay family spelling we are seeing in the 1600's in Stirlingshire,Scotland and in Donegal,Ireland. He also has found a 1641 entry from the Donegal Muster Rolls with a William McClae and from the 1665 Donegal Hearth tax records a William McClae is also listed. Craig suggests in his postings that some of the Stirlingshire McClaes may have been settled in Donegal as part of the Ulster Plantation scheme something that I have also been wondering about. Other McClays no doubt located elsewhere in Stirlingshire and Scotland possibly may be ancestrally connected with these McClays, but I do suspect Mr. McClay Wilson's ancestors may have been from a family of these McClays that settled in Ireland. So I think Craig and I are in sync on this. Kyle also posted on the forum an early 1630 Muster Roll for Donegal with includes a John McCley. Also see Kyle Maclea's posting on Killearn McLays December 10th,2009.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Andrew,

Interesting about the Boggs family matching with Fife Livingstons. Something like that has occurred with a Parker family that originally lived in North Carolina as neighbours to highland Livingstone family that settled in North Carolina in the late 1700's from Argyllshire. They show up in the test results as appearing to be connected to a highland Livingstone family associated with our ever growing aptly named Parker Livingstone group. And now we have some McDougalls and McDowells matching somewhat to the Dr. Livingstone group. Of course we know that the McDougalls of Dunollie for example had a close association with the Mcleas in the 1500s and 1600's and earlier likely that lived in their vicinity of Western Argyll. And the old McDowell history tells us that at least some of this family were infact McDougalds who were compelled to change the spelling of their name to McDowell by Edward the First or something like that. Whether or not that story is just folklore, it would be interesting to learn about DNA test results of McDowells and McDougalls and see if the DNA results back the notion that McDowells or some of them share the same ancestor as Western Argyllshire McDougalls. I would be curious about what Clan McDougall has been up to regarding DNA research.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

And now its time for Maclea Livingstone Society Quiz Question of the Month
Question
Who was the first person in March of 2004 to post on the "original" Maclea Livingstone Forum?
Answer
Craig McClay Wilson posted the first message on March 9th 2004