Kildalton, Argyll Livingston/es

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jisaak
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Kildalton, Argyll Livingston/es

Post by jisaak »

Hi all...first off I am new to your forum but I am not a Livingston descendant, however, my 5th gr grandfather was Donald/Daniel McIntyre who was a corporal in the Fraser Highlanders. In my research I have come across some documents that relate to my McIntyre ancestor when he was in what is now NY/VT after the French Indian Wars and there are also references to a Donald/Daniel Livingston as well. One document that I have is from 1771 and relates to when Robert Cochrane from the Green Mountain Boys forced several families from the land that was granted to them, including a signature from a Donald Livingston. I also have a map and written survey showing the lands that were surveyed for ex soldiers of the French Indian Wars, it appears that a Donald Livingston had property close to my ancestor. I'd gladly share, can I attach documents on this forum or would it be easier for those who are interested to send me an email address and I will forward?

Let me know,
jim
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Kildalton, Argyll Livingston/es

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Jim,

Welcome to the forum. Interesting that your Scottish ancestor was also connected Fraser's Highlanders and received land around the same time in the then Colonial Province of New York following the end of the French and Indian Wars. Daniel's later Canadian records indicate that was in the Argyle Township, Charlotte County (later known as Washington County in 1784) before leaving for Upper Canada in 784.

There was also another Livingston family that of an Isabella Livingston and her late husband Donald Livingston from Islay Argyll who had settled in New York State way back in 1739 I think it was a settler leader from Islay scotland named Campbell but their settlers promised land grant for the Islay group was delayed until years later when Donald's surviving widow Isabella Livingston received the grant also in the 1760's. Both this Livingston family of Donald and Isabella Livingston and Daniel(Donald) Livingston originated from Islay, Scotland but no connection has been established. I did some research on this other family of Isabella and late husband Donald the original Islay Scottish settlers who arrived with Islay settlement year back in 1739. The first Argyll Livingstons to arrived in the then Colonial Province of New York.

Yes indeed Daniel alias Donald Livingston did received a land grant as a former soldier in Fraser's Highlanders as you mentioned also in the old Argyll Patent and resided before coming to Canada in 1783 or 1784, in the Argyle Township, Charlotte (later Washington County, New York State. He received a land grant from the Government of the then Province of New York and King George the Third in 1765. In Daniel Livingston's later Canadian family records Interestingly his son John in Upper Canada years later referring to his father military service in the British Army in an Upper Canada land petition of his own, explains that his father Daniel was referred to in the army as Donald and actually oddly enough included an original copy of his father's land grant from 1765 in which it states that a Donald Livingston is entitled to land grant on land east of the Hudson River for his service. Although the exact location east of the Hudson River is not mentioned by name the general location is referred to in other earlier land petition documents of his father Daniel in Upper Canada. We do know however from Daniel himself in his subsequent 1793 Upper Canada Land Petition that Daniel before arriving in Canada resided in Argyll Township, Washington County, New York State a part of the original Argyll Patent of the 1760's where he received as a former soldier in the French and Indian Wars in 1765 his original Land grant in America. That Daniel/Donald thing confused me for a few years, but I have seen in other Scottish Livingston records where a Daniel Livingston is sometimes referred to as being a Donald Livingston.

I am not related to this Daniel/Donald Livingston either, but was aware that he was one of the earliest known highland Argyllshire Livingstons to settle in Upper Canada (Ontario) arriving there in the 1790's from New York State. I have been researching Argyllshire Livingston settlers in British North America from the late 1700's to 1840's over the last 10 years and was of course interested in learning more about this interesting earlier history in colonial America of Daniel (Donald) Livingston. Colonists in New York Colony had to make the very difficult choice of which side to support during the subsequent American Revolution.Daniel had only be settled in America for little more than a decade before the rebellion began and was forced to take a side and his case he decided to support the British and became a loyalist soldier once against fighting with the British Army. After 1783 and the end of War, it is not entirely clear to me but it seems he returned to his property in New York State before eventually resettling with a number of his sons in neighbouring Upper Canada and petitioning the Government of Upper Canada for a land grant as a loyalist and former New Yorker who served in the British Army once again during the Revolutionary War period. I think some of his sons returned to New York State. Still trying to sort out all of the details.

I would very much be interested in seeing those documents you mentioned pertaining to Daniel/Daniel Livingston you mentioned. I will get back to you on that.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
lisagreaves
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:23 pm

Re: Kildalton, Argyll Livingston/es

Post by lisagreaves »

Hi all,

I think my Livingston family may be descended from Daniel Livingston (1730-1793) through one of his sons, Daniel (1762-) or Abraham (1767-1825), who both married a Dickson girl. We have autosomal DNA matches to several descendants of Daniel Livingston (1762-) and Margaret Dickinson (1779-) and also to one descendant of Simeon Livingston (1777-) and Sally Todd (1778-). We also have autosomal DNA matches to several descendants of David Dickson (1754-1837), who was the father of the two Dickson girls, Margaret (1779-) and Rachel (1778-1807).

My source for these relationships is FamilySearch and other people's family trees. I haven't been able to independently validate their lineage to Daniel Livingston (1730-1793).

I'm contacting patrilineal descendants in search of Y-DNA. One of my Livingston cousins has already submitted a Y-67 kit to FTDNA, but he has no close matches. I don't know if that's because we don't match or because no one else in this line has tested yet.

Lisa Greaves
lisa@gengenenova.com
Greg Livingston
Posts: 308
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:42 pm
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA

Re: Kildalton, Argyll Livingston/es

Post by Greg Livingston »

Welcome to the forum, Lisa. Has your male Livingston cousin joined the Livingston/MacLea DNA project on FamilyTreeDNA? If not, please have him join. Our DNA Project has found several interesting matches and it might just be that he will need to upgrade to 111 markers, I know that I did and it made a difference.

Donald should be adding a welcome also. He does a lot of the genealogical research for members of our clan.
Greg Livingston
Clan Commissioner
Northglenn, Colorado, USA
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Kildalton, Argyll Livingston/es

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Lisa,
Welcome. That is interesting that there are some indicators suggesting a connections with Livingstons thought to be descended from old Scottish colonial war soldier and former New York State resident and later United Empier loyalist, Upper Canada resident 1789? Daniel Livingston. I have done some research on Daniel Livingston over the years and took at look at some of original land records of his which gave a few clues as to his military history before during the American Colonial period and later during the American Revolution with the British. As you may know Daniel as a British soldier of Scottish origin fought in the the French and Indian Wars and was granted land following the end of that Colonial War in the 1760's in New York Colony for his military service and then at the time of American Revolution he also served once again with the British Army and following the end of that War left New York State with some of his sons for Upper Canada he came to Canada around 1789? where they petitioned the Government of Upper Canada and received land in Upper Canada. Some of his sons I think subsequently returned to New York State but Daniel and some of family remained in Upper Canada. I was contacted a few years ago by a Livingston whom also had some credible info linking his ancestry to Daniel Livingston. I have not heard from him since but we did have an interesting discussion at the time about old Daniel Livingston on the forum as I recall. He had not done the Y chromosome DNA test offered by familytreed DNa that a lot of Livingstons have done over last 15 years at the time, but it would have been interesting indeed to have a Livingston with information suggesting ancestry to United Empire Loyalist Daniel Livingston of Upper Canada and formerly of New York State.

I would like to know more about these descendants of Daniel Livingstons whom your family are being matched with. It would also be interesting to see if your Livingston cousin also is matching with this same Livingstons in a Y chromosome DNA test. Sometimes though the matches listed are not based on a Y chromosome match but are listing as close relatives on genealogy sites determined by other means. I have a number of persons listed as likely 3rd and 4th cousins with ancestry.com whom I have no idea how they can be related to me. Not through a Y chromosome match as i have not done that test just a general DNA test. A Livingston cousin some years ago did a Y chromosome test however which clarified my Livingston cousins origins with the Livingstons of Western Argyllshire.



regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Kildalton, Argyll Livingston/es

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Brent,
A bit of an update for you if you happen to drop by the Forum now or in the future. We were excited back in 2017 to hear from a direct descendant of the first Argyll Livingston to settle in what later became Canada back in the year 1784.

Well it is now 2021 and I have taken a closer look at the all the available records I could find pertaining to your ancestor Daniel (Donald) Livingston and would say the evidence strongly supports the notion that he served during the French and Indian Wars with the 78th Regiment of Foot (Fraser's Highlanders) rather the 77th Regiment (Montgomery's Highlanders) Some of them also were given military land grants by the Crown to settle in Argyle Township in Albany County around the 1765 period when Donald (Daniel) Livingston and others formerly in the 78th Regiment received their grants. Pretty certain now of that. Most recently I have been looking at the some New York State historical records pertaining to your ancestor and other former members of the 78th regiment who were his neighbouring in Argyle Township, Albany County and some of the challenges they faces in the years after received their military land grant in Albany County in 1765. There is some detailed info in some surviving documents in the old New York State records from this period in your ancestor life in the 1770's in particular which is very interesting indeed. I have been working a separate forum posting update of the history of your ancestor Daniel (Donald) Livingston in 2021 which you can see on this Ancestry Search section of the Forum.

You are the only direct "Livingston" descendant named Livingston who has as yet to contact us and we would be interested in learning more about ancestral Livingston family line over the centuries with Daniel (Donald) Livingston. I cannot really tell you anything about your more ancient ancestral line in Scotland as no Livingston descended directly your ancestor Daniel Livingston had done the Familytreedna Y DNA test which some of our Clan Society members and other Livingstons doing their family research over the years and some visiting this forum in the past have done over the years since about 2005. Y DNA testing is an excellent way to establish which other old Scottish Livingston families your ancestors were connected and to locate other Livingstons who may share common ancestry with you and Livingston ancestors.

We hope you will keep in touch with this Forum as your Livingston ancestor's history is actually quite a interesting one the more I look into it delving into various sources that includes some 1760's and 1770's info pertaining to your ancestor Daniel Livingstons early years in New York from old records od New York State which covers some details regarding to Donald (Daniel) Livingston that was first pointed out to me a few years ago by a direct descendant of Sgt. Daniel McIntyre also formerly of 78th Regiment who also received a land grant in 1760's as did Donald and was located in a neighbouring lot.

regards,

Donald
trickrun
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed May 04, 2016 10:01 pm

Re: Kildalton, Argyll Livingston/es

Post by trickrun »

Hi all,
I do hope that Canadian Livingstone is still doing history here.....took 4 years and now reading this forum, the early pages, is crazy, because that is my family.
My great grandfather changed his name in 1880's to Riley...gramma on my father's side did not know why, but she knew he did it, even named her son Robert Livingston Riley. Took 4 years of digging into people on ancestry.com,mostly, and on ftdna.com somewhat...the livingston project in there, where I am (or was, have not looked lately) the closest relative to Dr. David's grand nephew, who was still alive a few years back, managed by his niece on ftdna.com.
So, finally, after 4 years, i found 4 families I am distantly related to, pointing to two Livingstons in Wisconsin, one, in Oshgosh, a woman, and two, William Henry Livingston in Omro, Wisconsin. He was accused of robbery and attempted murder (threw the guy off a bridge)...for 20 dollar gold pieces....the evidence? The guy recognized his voice...he served 5 years in prison. My great grandfather apparently took off...left wife and child behind (who remarried Dec 31st, 1886) or she left him as his family was criminal....he shows up 10 years or so later in North dakota marrying second wife, and we know the rest there. So, William Henry was also married to Sarah Jane Cummings...and her brother's name was Riley Cummings....bingo. Nailed it.
William Henry was possiby born on Hickory Island, Canada....85 acre island, owned by livingstons...they were also on grindstone island, USA, and in Clayton, NY. HIs father was David Daniel, 1800-1880, and upline to Daniel (Donald) (born Argyll,Scotland) the loyalist who migrated to Canada..apparently after the Green Mountain boys kicked him out of Vermont/NY and to John/Donald 1704 or 1715 in Argyll...not sure which is correct, I've seen both in various places. Do we know more about who John's father was? Or, a deadend there...I am related to Dr. David by the L1445 (?) marker that is indicative of his relatives..so we branched off from his great or great great grandfather, I assume.
I need to read all the info in this forum, now, on Daniel, etc...that I might have read 5 years ago or so, more recently, but not in last year that I found out I was, in fact, a Livingston. We do our local Celtic fests now with Greg, the commissioner for USA, here in Colorado. I'm also trying to track down the last possible male in our lineage from my great uncle..born in 1964....my son, no sons, my cousins, no sons..other than my female cousin. Would he have the L1445 marker, or only passed on to the paternal line.
Take care,
Trick Runions (Riley/Livingston)
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Kildalton, Argyll Livingston/es

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Trick,

Hope all is well with you. In regards to your question in your final paragraph regarding paternal DNA, a relative of yours distant or otherwise out there who shares your Livingstone Y DNA results would have be a male descended from your biological father's paternal line. If your biological father had a brother or brothers they may have had sons and they would for sure share your Y DNA results and SNP results. And no doubt there are could be other males out there somewhere who share a more distant paternal ancestry with yourself and your biological father. Your efforts of course to find these individuals is made difficult in your case by the fact that your family history connection with a Livingston family is complicated and there is not much info for you work with in your efforts to locate others out there who share your paternal Y DNA.

In the case of my own Livingston ancestor my great-great-great grandfather I knew from his marriage records and other surviving records that he was a native of Morvern, Argyll, a boat builder by trade who settled in what later became Canada in 1812 the year of his marriage in Argyllshire and that eldest child Nancy born in Canada married my great-great grandfather John Clink in Canada. In 1817 he was hired by the British Navy in Upper Canada to build boats for them. I do not possess paternal Livingstone Y DNA but my male Livingstone cousins out there do and I was fortunate to locate one of them that he agreed to do the FamilytreeYDNA test for me back around 2006 I think it was. In my situation I was lucky that I knew where to find some Livingston relatives and was able to contact one of them doing their Livingstone Family research and then the Y DNA test eventually came out of that interaction. My Livingstone cousin when tested was not a Y DNA match with the Livingstone Y DNA match group which you are matching with but with another Livingstone Y DNA Match group mostly made up Livingstone's who descended from Maclea Livingstones from the 19th century who resided in Mull, Morvern and other neighbouring parishes in Western Argyllshire. My father was very disappointed when I told him we weren't related to Dr. Livingstone's family group as he had been told as a boy that his Livingstone ancestors were related in some way to Dr. Livingstone. The Y DNA test however of our Livingstone cousin proved that was clearly not the case.

Your test results however clearly indicate you apparently have some paternal ancestral connection long ago presumingly with an ancestor of Dr. David Livingstone. When I cannot say. It was a very interesting test result given so much mystery and lack of info that surrounds your Livingstone family connection. I wish I could have helped you more but your family history connection with the Livingstons is a bit of a mystery. Certainly an interesting one. On a positive note you have Y DNA proof that you are somehow related to Dr. Livingstone ancestors way back when in Scotland and very few Livingstones have that proof.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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