livingston antrim ireland

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livingston
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:15 pm

livingston antrim ireland

Post by livingston »

hi everybody
My names is david livingston from randalstown co/antrim i have just joined this site.my family has been in randalstown antrim approx 300 years.



yours david
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2737
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: livingston antrim ireland

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi David,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society Forum

There is lot of Livingston family research here regarding the Western Argyllshire Maclea Livingstones but I of highland Argyllshire Livingston ancestry on my fathers side of the family and largely Scotch-Irish Ulster origins on my Mother's side of our family. My Mom is descended from an old Ayrshire, Scotland family Brysons from South Western Scotland who settled in the 1600's in the Carrickfergus, County Antrim area. I had done somel years of research on my Mom's family before getting involved in researching my highland Argyllshire Livingston family connected to my father's family about 20 years ago.

Recently I have been in touch with a few Livingstons of Ulster ancestry one of which is a participant in the familytreedna project of which I doing some mostly Western Argyllshire Livingston research with, but most recently looking into some of the Ulster Livingston ancestry of some of the participants with Ulster ancestry. I am interested in seeing now and in the future which Ulster Livingstons are related to one other according to the familytreedna test results. Secondly I am hoping to eventually find out through the familytreedna Y chromosome testing which LIvingstons in the project are possibly related to old Livingston families that lived in South Western Scotland in Kirkcudbrightshire part of old Galloway and neighbouring Dumfriesshire in the 1600's and 1700's and 1800's. According to Scotch-Irish historian Charles Hanna, there were some Livingstons who were an old Galloway family in the 1600's at the time families from the South Western Scotland some of whom may have settled in Ulster and I have found a number of Livingston family in the early 18th century Kirkudbrighshire and Dumfriesshire, Scotland parish records and later that I assume are descendants of local families who remained in Scotland in the 1600's. It would be interesting if the famlytreedna Livingston Y chromosome DNA project can eventually prove that that a number of Ulster Livingston families can be proven from this testing that they have relatives in Scotland or elsewhere descended from one of these old Galloway and Drumfiesshire Livingston famiies. In any event I am hoping that in 10 years or less the familytreedna Y chromosome test of some South Western Scottish Livingstons and persons of Ulster Livingston ancestry can perhaps indicate if there is or is not a likely ancestral connection between some Ulster Livingston familiy groups and the little known Livingstons/Livingtouns families of South Western Scotland. At the same time results of Livingstons of known South Western Scotland origins would also be compared with all other Livingstons who had been earlier tested including Western Argyllshire as it is quite possible that some Livingstons of Western Argyllshire ancestry settled in Ulster in the late 1700's or in the 1800's a more recent Livingston familiy group to settle in Ulster. If that were the case then their DNA result would likely reflect their Western Argyllshire origins. So there is definitely a interesting DNA project here which is not starting from square one because there are already a good number of Livingstons of known Ulster origin who have done the famllytreedna test. So far however I have not noticed anyone of known South Western Scotland in the DNA project but there may be. As far I know there is no organized effort before to identify the ancestral root of South Western Scotland Livingstons through familytreedna testing and compare their results with Ulster Livingstons and Livingstons of other origins. So I think the idea has some merit. My main Ulster Livingston contact as mentioned unfortunately has just had a serious operation and is recovering from that, but for now I can talk with others and see if there is any interest among them regarding this project. It could a few years before this could get off the ground, maybe less if there is more interest than I anticipated and descendants of Ulster Livingstons and Livingstons of South Western Scotland origin can be proven to be a match. For now I can say that the notion that some Ulster Livingstons arrived in Ulster in the 17th century is from what I have read from South Western Scotland is well documented by historians in the past much more familiar with Ulster history than I and not some speculative adventure on my part. As i am not of Ulster Livingston this may be a project which Ulster Livingtons may eventually become interested in pursuing, but first I must wait and see if any of those who are already involved with the familytreedna project see any merit in this idea, before it can really get off the ground.

David does your family have any sense of their original Scottish Livingston ancestry? One of the earliest and more prominent of the Livingstons to arrive in Ulster was a Rev. John Livingston originally of ANcrum, Scotland, but I have found that he was just one of a number of other LIvingstons who were among the many lowland Presbyterian Scottish families who arrived in Ulster during the Plantation period of the 1600's. Since 2004 when genealogical interest in Livingstons eventually expanded beyond my own Argyllshire, Scotland Livingston ancestry and others of Argyllshire origin, I wondered if someday the mystery of the origins of the Ulster Livingstons who settled in Ulster in the 1600's could be clarified. Years later I now realize that someday DNA testing may perhaps help to identify their genetic distant cousins in present day South Western Scotland.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
livingston
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:15 pm

Re: livingston antrim ireland

Post by livingston »

hi there
Thanks for your reply i have done the dna test andrew looked at it but only one he thought was close a george livingstone from georgetown guyana a john now lives in canada ,Could you help me with one a canada livingston Alexander w livingston the canadian horticulturist he was scotch irish in his photo he looks like my dad my dad is now 79 and very like another william who left our farm in 1822 for the gold rush in dunedon new zealand so there are lots of livingston there now from this emigration, i emailed the seed company but no response i just wonder is there any livingstons still alive from this guy and would there be a connection?


yours david livingston
killultagh
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:48 pm

Re: livingston antrim ireland

Post by killultagh »

Hi David

Great to see another Ulster Livingston on the board. My Livingston’s originate between Gilford and Lurgan. I’m not far down the road from you!

Can you confirm that you have taken a Y-DNA test? The contact Donald mentions and myself match with some Pollocks. There may be a case of illegitimacy with our male line or indeed on the Pollock like however, we need as many Livingston’s as possible to take the Y-DNA test to ascertain this possibility.

Brian
TGL
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:18 pm

Re: livingston antrim ireland

Post by TGL »

I, too, am looking for information regarding my family. Although I live in Cape Breton, Canada now, my grandfather Thomas John Livingston was born in Lurgan, Co Armagh sometime around 1870. His father was also Thomas Livingston, a Lurgan Quaker. My grandfather, a 19-year old cobbler, happened to visit a public gathering in Lurgan where William Booth, founder of the Salvation Army, was preaching. My grandfather was immediately convinced that this was to be his true calling, so he determined to join Booth immediately. Upon being informed of this, my great-grandfather told his son to "Go, and never darken my door again" - which he did. He spent the rest of his life in the "Army", ministering in Devonshire and Leicester, UK. He died in 1946, a Salvation Army General. That is pretty much all I know of that story.

About 20 years ago I had the great luck to visit Lurgan and met some of my father's cousins who still lived in the area. It was an incredible time for me, but unfortunately the intervening years' travails have served me poorly, for I have lost track of those whom I found.

I would love to find out who my great-grandfather, the Quaker Thomas Livingston, was, and where any records may be found of him and his part of my family.

Many thanks. Thomas G. Livingston
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2737
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: livingston antrim ireland

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Thomas,

Welcome to the Clan Maclea/Livingstone Forum. Unfortunately most of the Ulster Census records from the 1800's and and many other records from the 1800's housed in Dublin were destroyed in the early 20th century. Before the partition of Ireland into the Ireland Free State and Northern Ireland in the 1920's all of the Ireland census records and many other records from the 19th century and earlier were housed in Dublin. ceThere is a surviving Griffith Valuation collection of the early 1860's for parishes and Townlands in the Counties of Ulster and an earlier collection of Tithe Records from the 1830's but that won't help you find info on your Great Grandfather Thomas Livingston.
When all else fails there is a chance that you may get lucky and find out where your branch of the Livingston family of Lurgan was buried and having located this cemetery you may find that the elder Thomas Livingston who may have died in Lurgan in 1917 may be buried in some old Cemetery in Lurgan. You mentioned that at one point you were in touch with some Livingston cousins in Northern Ireland. If they are still residing in Lurgan they might now where your ancestor the elder Thomas Livingston was buried presumingly in 1917. There is a Quaker burial site in Lurgan I believe but I am not certain where in Lurgan Thomas Livingston Sr. was buried as yet.

What I can tell you is that your Great GrandfatherThomas Livington residing in Lurgan apparently by the 1870's was likely born about 1847 or 1849 actually in County Down according to the 1901 and 1911 Census and who apparently by the time he was married or when his children were born had located in Lurgan, County Armagh on Hill Street. By the 1901 Census he is widower living with two of his children Grace born about 1778 in Lurgan and Robert Livingston born about 1780 in Lurgan.

Interestingly there are other Livingston householders with their family residing on Hill Street in Lurgan according to the 1901 Census including a John Livingston b. abt. 1856 in County Down like Thomas Sr. who also lives on Hill Street in Lurgan as does a Edward Livingston b. abt. 1836 in County Down. Perhaps they are related to your Great-grandfather Thomas Livingston. Definitely there is an interesting pattern here with all three Livingston men indicating they were born in County Down and later in the 1800's settling at Lurgan in County Armagh and end up residing on Hill Street I am thinking. It would also seem from the 1901 Census info that Thomas Sr. and other Livingstons left County Down at some point in the later part of the 1800's and settled in Lurgan.

Your UlsterLivingston ancestors likely originated from a lowland South Western Scottish Livingston family that settled in the early 1600's during what is known as the the Plantation period of Irish history when these Scots from lowland South Western Scotland from Ayrshire, neighbouring Dumbartonshire etc. were encouraged to settle in great numbers in the six counties of Ulster, Ireland. Nothing is really known for certain about your specific Livingston family back that long ago, but I have been able to determine that a number of Livingstons families residing in South Western Scotland in places like Ayrshire located in Ulster at this time in the 1600's possibly in County Down and other Counties according to historical accounts.

There may be a good chance that you may be able to make some inquiries with Lurgan people and find out where the Lurgan Livingstone were buried. There is a Presbyterian Church on Hill Street but most of these Livingstons I mentioned were members of Church of Ireland which is connected to the Anglican Church with one exception and that is interestingly enough I assume the man I assume to be your Great Grandfather a Thomas Livingston recorded in two Lurgan, Armagh County census records as being born about 1847 or 1849 in County Down. He who refers to himself in 1901 and 1911 Ireland Census as being a member of the religious group known as the "Brethren". While your info mentioned that the elder Thomas Livingston in Lurgan was a Quaker apparently a member of the "Brethren" they are a very similar religious group to Quakers and I still I assume that this is quite likely your Great-grandfather unless I am wrong.

By 1901 the elder Thomas is a widower and in the 1901 Lurgan Armagh County Census it is also recorded that he is residing with a daughter Grace born 1878 in County Armagh and a son Robert born abt. 1880 also in County Armagh according to this census. The elder Thomas Livington of Lurgan if I am correct died sometime between January and March in 1917 in Lurgan and he is mentioned in an index and I assume then there is some record collection a full death record you might be able to get a copy of you if you make some inquiries with the Public Records Office in County Antrim this 1917 death date can be confirmed.

As you mentioned the Thomas Livingston Jr. joined up with the Salvation Army and had arrived in England sometime prior to 1901 and he shows up both in the 1901 and 1911 Census of England. In the 1901 Census Thomas Frederick Livingston born in Lurgan Ireland about 1873 is recorded as single age 28 and a boarder residing in London in the Parish of Islington and he is listed as an officer in the Salvation Army. In the 1911 Census Thomas Livingston age 38 is residing in an officer in the Salvation Army in Willesden Parish, Middlesex County 5 miles north of London now married several years to a woman named Jane also a Salvation Army officer. They have 3 children J.D. Lucker Livingston born abt. 1905 in St. Helens England, William Moffat Livingston born abt. 1908 in St. Albans England and Kathleen Livingston born abt. 1900 in Luton, England.

You should note that the 1901 Census your grandfather Thomas Jr. is referred to as Thomas J. Livingston and in the 1911 Census he is referred to as Thomas Frederick Livingston. Not sure how to explain that one, but I am pretty certain they are probably the same person 28 in 1901 and 38 in 1911.

I have noticed some info regarding the later life of one of Thomas Junior's children William Moffat Livingston and his life, but could find out anything about any of other children mentioned in the 1911 England Census. I assume however your family likely learned some details regarding your grandfather's family over the years perhaps.

regards,
Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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