Islay

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Islay

Postby jmlivingstone » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:38 am

I'm off to visit Islay for a few days from tomorrow, had hoped to get a quick visit to Colonsay, unfortunately, due to industrial action on the ferries, I don't think I will manage to get there.

John
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Re: Islay

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:29 pm

Hi John,

Hope you had a good time in Islay. I have been visiting a few lake side cottages in the past few weeks. I am sure that myself and others would love to hear about your trip to Islay. My Morvern Livingston kin for a time resided in Kilarrow (Bowmore) and Kilmeny Parishes before settling in the early 1800's in British North America (Canada). There was at one time a significant number of Livingstons residing on the Isle of Islay. Some of them migrated to Islay because there was work there from Mull/Colonsay/Morvern for example while the earliest Livingstons on the Island apparently dating back likely before 1700 seem to have a completely different origin I have discovered. Looks like some of your Livingston kin like mine arrived there seeking better opportunities than those which existed in Colonsay/Mull or Morvern, much as my great-great-great grandfather Livingston family did apparently.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Islay

Postby jmlivingstone » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:40 am

Hi Donald,

It was somewhere around the mid 1840's before the first of my Livingstones arrived on Islay, the Livingstones appear to have mainly lived around Caol Ila originally, then gradually spread out, partly through marriage, probably more due to employment opportunities.

I unfortunately, only had four days on Islay, fortunately the weather was mainly good, so I got an average of eight hours a day walking in, covered a lot of roads around Port Askaig/Caol Ila/Finlaggen/Ballygrant/Bridgend/Bowmore & Port Ellen. I must admit, I used the local bus services on occasion when a rest from walking was required.

I visited Kilmeny graveyard, didn't get time to find any ancestors graves , maybe manage on next visit, I also didn't get time to visit the Finlaggen Centre, due to threatened industrial action by ferry crews.

Unfortunately, I didn't get time to attempt to contact any living relatives, something else to do on my next visit. It's a short journey from Greenock to Islay, about 5-6 hours.

One thing I have been unable to find, my g/g/grandfather died in 1858 at Tirvagan, Kilmeny, I've tried for months to trace this location, with no luck so far, anyone got any suggestions ?,

I stayed at the Ballygrant Inn, I can recommend it to anyone staying in the area.

I've probably said this before, when I looked at the address you came up with for my g/mothers address on her marriage certificate, as being Cornhaddock Farm, this farm no longer exists, but its location was around five minutes walk from my present location,

John
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Re: Islay

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:39 pm

Hi John,
Perhaps Tirvagan has some alternative spellings or perhaps the place no longer exists. It is yet another mystery. Actually the name rings a bell in the back of my head. I may have come across it when doing Islay related research in the past. As mentioned my Livingstons had both a Morvern and later Islay connection before they ended up in Canada in the early 1800's. I will take a look for it and get back to you on that. My great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingston b.1775 married his second wife Janet Livingston in June of 1812 at Bowmore according to the Church of Scotland records but was according to the minister not of the parish and was in fact a native of Morvern as was his bride to be. His presumed Livingston cousin Donald Livingston with whom he came over to British North America with on the Hudson Bay Company Vessel "The Robert Taylor" later stated in 1817 in a deposition stated that he was also born in Morvern Parish, Argyll so it would seem that all of the Islay Livingstons that ended up at Lord Selkirk's Red River Colony in British North America during the 1812-1819 period were rooted one way or another to Morvern though some of the younger ones were actually born in Islay. I have records also showing that both Donald and my ancestor Miles were originally hired as boatbuilders for Lord Selkirk's settlement by one of his highland recruiters. Later elsewhere in Canada my great-great-great grandfather was boatbuilding and in his old age barrel making. Baron Livingstone at one time pointed out to me that Miles in his younger days may have found work on Islay making barrels as there was in his day a whiskey industry there. The old Church of Scotland Round Church at Bowmore is still standing and looking much the same way it did at the time of my great-great-great grandfather Livingston when he married on the 20th of June 1812 and just a few days later sailed for British North America from Sligo, Ireland with boat full of highland Scot and Irish passengers. Did you see the old church when you were at the Port of Bowmore?

I was hoping that my own research of your ancestral lines which I did a while back would locate some document of use to you. I had forgotten since then that there was some information of use to you with an address you had not seen before that I came up with in my search. That is great to hear. I thought at the time it was worth going through your ancestral lines document by document as a means to better familiarize myself with your Livingston family lines. I remember being struck a the time just how your Livingstons had over the generations moved about quite a bit in Scotland from their earliest known origin point of Shiaba, Ross of Mull.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Islay

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:50 pm

Hi John,
Tirvagan is the most common spelling I assume.
Don't know if this is of any help, but I noticed I had sent you message regarding John Livingston who died in 1858 and the precise location of "Tiervaagain" from what I assume is a relatively recent detailed ordinance map of the area. In any event the map shows that the village was very close to the old Kilmeny Church cemetery where your ancestor was buried in 1858 and no doubt one of the Islay family historians you may be able to contact can provide you more insight on "Tiervaagain" or Tirvagan and the old Kilmeny Church Cemetery when you do a return trip to Islay.

See also
https://www.scotlandschurchestrust.org. ... rant-islay


Check out the map with "Tiervaagan" here:
http://canmore.org.uk/site/37709/islay- ... ish-church
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/recor ... rch/rcahms

photo of the Old Kimeny Church Cemetery where John Livingston of Tirvagan or Tiervagan was buried.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... hurchyard&
(There is one oldtimer Mary Livingston b. 1781 buried there who died in the 1861 recorded and there are probably others perhaps not recorded or their grave stones have long since disappeared. ) Another Duncan Livingston died in 1869 as a infant.

See old post below:

Canadian Livingstone wrote:
Hi John,

Yes Hugh's brother John Livingstone woolen and cotton weaver who died age 52 July sixth 1858 at Tirvagan, Kilmeny Parish, Islay. Parents: Angus Livingstone Chelsea Pensioner and Margaret McPhail deceased. He was buried in the Kilmeny Burial Ground according to his death record. His son James was the witness. An Ordinance Survey Map shows Tiervaagain as being nearby and a short distance south west of the old Kilmeny Church cemetery on the Island of Islay in the old parish of Kilmeny. Perhaps that is the cemetery where John is buried.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Islay

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:09 pm

Hi John,
You were so close to where Tirvagan or Tiervagan was, a little south west of the old Church. The original croft where your ancestor lived is likely long gone and probably only a few field stones remain. If your lucky you might find the ruins of some structure where the old crofts were. Someone in the area may know something about the settlement and its precise location. The map will probably be of some help I would think.
Not sure that you would be able to find your ancestor's gravestone even if you had more time to look. As mentioned the oldest Livingston stones that were mentioned was that of elderly Mary Livingston who died in 1861 and a Duncan Livingston who died in 1869 as an infant. Those were the only two I noticed that were mentioned in a grave index.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Islay

Postby jmlivingstone » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 am

Hi Donald,

Good find on Tirvagan, I was actually on that road, but did not go as far as the farm.

John is definitely buried at Kilmeny, that's on his death certificate, there was a funeral going on when I got there, so I did not go in.

John
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Re: Islay

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:59 pm

Hi John,

Yes looks like one farm there now. Perhaps in 19th century there were a few tenants residing near to where the present day farm and house is. Perhaps on your next trip to the area you could contact the farmer or others in the area of Tiervagan and see what is known about the history of Tiervagan and whether there are tenant croft ruins there.
No doubt John was buried at old Kilmeny cemetery. It was officially recorded in his death record. You are lucky that the location of his burial was included. I noticed in Argyll for some reason deaths recorded in the 1850's state location of burial, while for some reason deaths in the 1860's and thereafter don't or at least in all the Livingstone deaths I have checked in Argyll so far after the 1850's. It was a a while ago since I first stumbled across that detailed map of the area your ancestor lived and was buried. I suspect I was looking for information on the old Kilmeny burial ground and locating the map then noticed to my surprise that there was Tiervagan just a short drive and little south west of the cemetery where John Livingston was buried in 1858. Makes sense he would be buried there given the fact he was living so close by. I have not looked but I think that very maps of Scotland would include Tiervagan on them except perhaps the Ordnance Survey maps. Just the one farm there now by the looks of it, but the ruins of some tenant crofts could be around there perhaps. The map also mentions an ancient standing stone I think a few miles away in the opposite direction from Kilmeny which might be interesting to check out on your next expedition to Kilmeny and Ballygrant area.

If you get really ambitious in the future you could check out the ruins at Shiaba where Angus was likely born and where father Neil Livingston and family lived in the 1770's. Angus Livingston's brother Donald and his wife stayed on in Kilfinchen Parish, despite whatever effect the clearances had on them. One effect of the clearances was that they and many of those who refused to leave Kilfinchen Parish ended up as paupers in their old age. They probably could have joined their sons who left for Ontario, Canada by the 1850's but perhaps they felt they were too old to survive the lengthy voyage.

I located an old map from the 1850's which shows the precise location of Savary Mill in Morvern Parish where Donald Livingston 1728-1816 of Battle of Culloden fame resided beside the mill which was located adjacent to what and still is the Savary River bridge. I am reasonably certain that there are still a bit of ruins there marking the spot where the old mill and home of Donald Livingston and his family once was. Further east of the mill there should be I suspect some further ruins where Savary Farm was and where perhaps tenants resided in small crofts. Some Livingston tenants at one time worked on this farm. Donald is buried in the old nearby Keil Cemetery in the Lochaline, Morvern area not far from Savary with his father and Mother and other kin. From the cemetery there are pleasant views of Loche Linhe and the surrounding picturesque area. And of course a short distance away is the Island of Lismore where our Clan Chief Niall Livingston resides at Bachuil. Some pretty amazing scenery there and ancient ruins. Perhaps one of these times you might consider exploring Western Argyll with Appin, Morvern, Mull, Colonsay and Lismore close by via ferry. The heartland of our ancestors. If you ever plan make a trip that way give the Clan Chief Baron Niall Livingstone a call before hand. I am sure he would like to meet you. You can check out the Staff of St. Molaug which has been in the Baron's family for centuries.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
 
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Re: Islay

Postby jmlivingstone » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:14 pm

Hi Donald,

The link below covers most of the places on Islay that we spoke about last year, the two Kilmeny farms are mentioned as being tenanted by two brothers, the two brothers were probably my fathers uncles, Duncan & Peter McGillivary, both died in the late 1950's. Duncan farmed Upper Kilmeny & Peter, Lower Kilmeny. I doubt if another two brothers ever ran these two farms.

http://www.islayinfo.com/islay-federati ... lmeny.html,

John.
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Re: Islay

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:40 am

Hi John,
Kilarrow and nearby Kilmeny Parish on Islay are mentioned briefly in the history of my own Livingstons that migrated from Morvern to Islay probably by the late 1700's or early 1800's before they settled in Canada. I suspect your Mull/ Colonsay Livingston relative also ended up on Islay for same reasons that my Livingston ancestor and Jerry Schmidt's did.
My great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingston was married in 1812 at Bowmore in Kilarrow Parish presumingly by the minister at the Old Presbyterian Round Church which still exists today.There was a Livingston that lived at Kilmeny Parish in before 1819 that was an Great-great-great Uncle of Jerry Schmidt of our Clan Society and the older brother Donald Livingston 1791-1876 who accompanied my great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingston, his second wife Janet also a Livingston and Miles son from his first marriage Donald Livingston 1796-1962. Miles and Donald Livingston both originally natives of Morvern Parish who may have been cousins apparently were both boatbuilders and were recruited by Lord Selkirk's highland agents probably while the men were working in the islay in 1811 or 1812. Unfortunately I have some pieces in the puzzle but not enough to put my whole Livingston family puzzle together. Both Miles and the older Donald Livingston have information stating they were natives of Morvern but travelling to British North America with a large contingent of McLEans of Mull Origin they were recorded in the Red River Settlement records mistakenly as being of Mull origin as were the McLean settlers at Red River.

I have determined that there was a migration within Arygll from places like Morvern and Mull to Islay among some Livingston as there was a thriving whiskey industry there and work could found for carpenters, barrelmakers etc. My Livingston ancestor was not only a boatbuilder but also for many years in North America was a barrelmaker. Before some Mull and Morvern livingstone migration occurred to Islay, I have found some evidence to suggest perhaps a few Ulster Livingston families had made their home on the Isle of Islay and there was possibly an Ulster Livingston family residing on the Isle of Islay perhaps as early the 1600's.

Since the fall I have been working on a number of different Livingstone related projects and have not contributed to the forum as much as I would like but with a number of leads in my research driving me forward which is something that has not happened in a long time, I feel compelled to focus on these projects. Another related family was asking me to collaborate on a family history but I had to decline their offer given that there is so much work with Clan Livingstone. I just could not take on any more family research. Livingstones keep me busy enough.

regards,

Donald
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