Wikispaces

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Wikispaces

Postby jmlivingstone » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:28 pm

http://livingstondna.wikispaces.com/R1b+Results

Hi Donald,

Have you had a look at this lately, I don't see much signs of many folk having updated their info,

John
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Re: Wikispaces

Postby Kyle MacLea » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:22 am

In the interests of having folks do the work "themselves" since Andrew and I couldn't handle all the updates ourselves, we ported to the Wiki with the hope that that would happen.

Hardly anyone showed any interest, so it has largely stayed the way it was when I copied Andrew's pages over, with a few changes I made myself.

:(
Kyle S. MacLea
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Re: Wikispaces

Postby jmlivingstone » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:24 am

Hi Kyle,

I did a bit of updating a couple of. years ago, I tried to keep it as brief as possible, I'll need to do a bit more to it soon.
The Yahoo groups sites appears to also have ground to a standstill,

John
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Re: Wikispaces

Postby Kyle MacLea » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:42 pm

You are right. Autosomal DNA really took off, and lots of our 'regulars' seemed to have diminished interest and attention and the Yahoo group sort of died. Tried to move everyone here, but registration issues and other things seems to have kept people away. So, sadly, there is not much going on. Would appreciate your updates on the Wikispaces page!

Kyle
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Re: Wikispaces

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jun 05, 2016 12:08 am

Hi John and Kyle,

It should be to difficult at all to update brief bios for at least the 20 or so Livingstons that as of 2016 make up the current Parker Livingston Group. I am familiar with most of them and their genealogy and can fill in the blanks in terms of missing brief genealogy bios for almost all of those who were not in the project or did not submit a bio some years ago when Andrew got people to submit bios from the Parker Livingston group. I helped Andrew way back when, with a bit of that at the time writing and submitting a few of those including one for my Livingston cousin who turned out to be a match with Parker Livingston folks. I know the names of all of the 20 or so Livingstons and a Parker including the those who weren't included with a bio back then and in some but not all cases I not know their KIt number. The matches page at familytreedna as you know lists the names and and e-mail address of those matches but not the corresponding kit number. Andrew however on his original bio list listed each member of the Parker Livngston group back then with their kit number and not their name. My cousin is some sort of match to virtually all the men of the Parker Livingston group some as close as 67-2 or 67-3 and the most distant being those of 67-6. That I assume just indicates all long ago the shared mcdunlea/Mconlea ancestor of these 20 men resided in Western Argyll. Anyways there are somewhere close to about 20 and possibly another Livingston in the next few weeks making up this group. Only one Parker-Livingstone has only done a 37 marker test the rest have all done a 67 marker and a few have done a 111 marker test. I am just waiting for his results to confirm if he is as I presume from his genealogical info also of the Parker Livingston group.

I have been working since last fall at trying to revive interest in the Parker Livingston Group and have brought to the Project two new participants most recently. For some time now I have got the impression from the results that there is something of major significance here in regards to the results and have tried to see what can learned from the continuing results as they are received. As mentioned, I have been sitting for a several weeks now on a rough draft of it but it needs a bit more work. As mentioned most of the ancestors of these men are of highland Argyll origin and in many cases these ancestors have a connection to Mull and neighbouring Morvern and later a number of them settled with Argyllshire families in areas of the world where highland Argyllshire families were known to have settled. Large numbers of Mull families settled in Nova Scotia in the early 1800's and interestingly of the several dna particpants who Argyll Livingston ancestors settled in Nova Scotia and neighbouring PRince Edward Island Canada, almost 200 years ago now, virtually every single man is a match with the Parker Livingston group. I am currently waiting for results of one most recent Livingston from Nova Scotia but I have reason to believe from his genealogy he will also be a match with this group.

Anyone care to speculate on the ancestral origins of the Parker Livingstone Group in Western Argyll and more ancient Argyll Ferguson family connection?

regards,

Donald
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Re: Wikispaces

Postby jmlivingstone » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:58 am

Hi Donald & Kyle,

See below for my present write up in Wikispaces, I've attempted to keep it as brief as possible, I suspect it will be expanded shortly.

John.

Livingstone 127272. 111 markers and definitely in this group. The oldest verifiable member of this family, is Angus Livingstone, b. abt.1775 at Shiaba or Kilpatrick, Isle of Mull, his parents were possibly (almost certainly) Neil Livingstone & Christian or Christina Boyd.

Angus married Margaret Hall, place & date unknown, probably around 1801, Margarets birth place is listed as ''foreign parts''.
In 1801, Angus is found as a patient in Kilmainham Royal Hospital, Dublin, at this time he was a member of the Argyllshire Fencibles Regiment, apparently Kilmainham was a sister hospital to Chelsea.
Angus was discharged from the military due to having been shot through the hand with a musket ball during the Irish Rebellion. I have a copy of his discharge papers.

Their first child Mary, was b. 31 Oct. 1802 in Glasgow, Angus is listed as a cotton spinner, by 1805, when their second child is born they have returned to Shiaba area, where they had the following children, John b. 07 Feb. 1805 / Betty b. 25 Apr. 1897 / Cirsty b. 29 Oct. 1807 / Duncan b. 30 Sept. 1814 / Hugh b. 06 June 1819 / Ann b. 1824 / Jane b. 18 Jan. 1829.

I am descended from John Livingstone & Agnes Edmiston who married at Livingstone, West Lothian, 27 Oct. 1827, John died at Kilmeny, Isle of Islay on 06 July 1858, & Agnes at Stirling, at her son Andrews house in 1868.

Their family were James Angus b. 1830 / John b. 26 Aug.1832 / Andrew Mitchell b. 30 Nov. 1828 / Gavin b.30 Dec. 1834 / Neil b. 10 June 1842, four of the family were born in West Lothian, Neil was born at Colonsay, possibly at Uragaig, the family then moved to Islay.

Their son John married Mary McKellar in 1871 among other family, they had a son John b.1871.

John married Margaret McGillivray (Sp??) 1896 in Greenock, my father Donald was born 1902.
To be continued later
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Re: Wikispaces

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:13 pm

Hi John,
I went through your ancestral line as I was intrigued with your Livingston family and how moved from one area to another as many highland Livingstons did in the 1800's as economic forces, clearances etc. pushed them away from Western Argyllshire. You like many of the other Livingstons in the Parker Livingstone Group are clearly descended from a Mull family. Mull Livingstones are very well represented in our group. Ideally in the future I am hoping that a few more Livingstons of neighbouring Morvern ancestry join the group. Right now we have two including my third cousin. But most recently a potential third Livingston of Morvern Livingston origin has been tested and we only await his results to confirm whether he turns out to be be with the Parker Livingston group. His family roots appear to be both Morvern and Mull although he was not aware of the Morvern aspect I recently found documented proof of it. I don't like to assume anything yet as to whether he will match with the Parker Livingstone group but there is certainly a good chance of it given the trend so far as his genealogy info which I am familiar with for several years now.

So we may soon have three Livingstons out of about 20/21 Livingstons in the next few weeks that are of documented Morvern origin. That is to say actually written in their families old Argyll parish records, in the case of my Livingston ancestor, and that of the other two Livingston families. So it is more than speculation or some later written family history. Like you these three Livingstons of Morvern origin have the old parish records to prove where in Western Argyllshire there families originated. Others have ancestors who while don't have a parish record paper trail may have settled in areas in North America where we know Mull or Western Argyll families settled in groups so we can pretty much with the DNA test conclude they are connected to the other Mull and MOrvern Livingstons in the project even though they have old parish records to prove that. As your information in the previous message indicates you original Mulll origins are well documented in the surviving old parish records so there is no doubt as to your Ross of Mull origins. I think we can say that from the results of many of those in the Parker Livingstone group that Mull Livingstones have been well tested and represented in that group.


In the future it would be nice if we could get more Morvern Livingstones to participate in the Project. This latest Morvern Livingston to be tested will probably as I said match up with the Parker Livingstone group but I also can't rule out that he could match up with two other predominate
DNA groups connected to Western Argyll. I have assumed in the past and have been wrong so probably best if I just wait and see whether the latest Morvern Livingstone matches with Parker Livingston or with two other DNA groups connected to Western Argyll. It is however wonderful that so many Livingstons of Mull origin have participated and their participation has most certainly helped to better define the Mull, Western Argyll component of this Parker Livingston group
Several years we we're contacted by another old documented
Morvern Livingstone family and they expressed some interest in our DNA project but we lost contact with them regretably. They had a family connection to Donald Livingstone 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern though it turned out when I fully researched their line that their Livingston ancestor who lived in the Savary area actually married another Livingston who was a descendant of Donald's son Adam Livingston of Savary. A daughter of this Adam Livingston who in the early 1800's was the Miller at Savary Mill along the Savary River at Savary in Morvern Parish married another Donald Livingston. So anyways this family we were in contact were indeed Livingstons who had married into another Livingston family who turned out to be descended from the famous Donald Livingstone of Savary Morvern. It was not uncommon for one Livingston family to marry into another Livingston family in Western Argyll and as matter of fact my great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingston married Janet Livingston both natives of Morvern Parish married in June of 1812 in Kilarrow Parish, Bowmore, Islay. I assume his wife was also Livingston but it could be simply that the Bowmore Church of Scotland minister at the time did not remember her maiden name. One relative tried to tell Janet was probably a McLean as my Livingston family came to Canada in a boat full of Mull McLeans, but there is no original information anywhere that states that my ancestor's wife was a Mclean.

There are two Livingstons in the group with Perthshire Livingston origins and no documented information or family history linking them to Argyllshire but with Perthshire being so close to Argyllshire and with there being a history of Argyllshire families migrating to Perthshire in the 18th century and with the DNA match with Parker Livingstone group I think it a reasonable assumption their Perthshire ancestors have western Argyllshire roots. Most of the others in the Parker Livingston group have some info linking them to Argyllshire and the rest who don't I am pretty confident enough to say that they probably descend from western Argyll Livingstones.

I think I mentioned to you that Nova Scotia and neighbouring Prince Edward Island Livingstones are well represented in the Parker Livingstone group I am hoping that trend continues. We now have a very good idea of ancestral connectivity of these original early 19the century Livingstone settler families of East Coast Canada.

I would like to confer with Kyle and Andrew who was involved with the original Parker Livingstone list as to the updated additions and work that info somehow into the original list that Andrew put together for the sake of continuity. I thought what Andrew started some years ago with the bios with his DNA marker chart originally on the Boggs Lancaster Maclea Livingstone webpage for a numerous Livingstone DNA Project participants including the highland Argyll group that became nicknamed Parker Livingstone was a pretty amazing undertaking given the number of different groups and DNA variations he had identified.

What I had in mind and have been working on was a very brief but concise summary of ancestral origins and later settlement location of ancestors of each of the Parker Livingston group members. Just the basic essentials to get the sense of how each of them connect with the group. In many cases I have already done more detailed research on the Livingston ancestry in the Parker Livingstone Group. If after that more information is needed one can always attempt to contact them or me regarding more genealogy details. That is what I have been working on at this point in time. In many cases I have much more detailed genealogy info but I am thinking something precise and short will work well. I will keep you posted.

At some point the question will be asked as to who were the ancestors of the Mull,Morvern, Argyll and Perthshire Livingston ancestors of the Parker Livingstone group in the more distant past in Western Argyll and where did the Mull and their Morvern Livingston distant relatives both ultimately originate before they lived in Mull and Morvern. Lawyer Duncan Livingston in the late 1800's in Ohio, USA may have provided a clue to the origin of both Morvern and some Mull Livingston families. Duncan Livingston of Scioto, Ohio and a descendant of Savary,Morvern Livingstons and related to the famous Donald Livingstone of Savary and Battle of Culloden fame, wrote in a 19th century article in the Celtic Monthly, that he had been told by his old Scottish relatives that their Savary, Morvern Livingston ancestors came to Morvern as early as 1600 from Achnacree, Argyll. It is possible that both the Morvern and Mull Livingstons ancestors of those who are a match with the Parker Livingston have some earlier before 1600 ancestral connection with Livingstons that resided at Achnacree/Benderloch area in western Argyllshire. More recently in the 1950's Lismore Minister, Ian Carmichael author of Lismore in Alba suprisingly stated that "there was no relationship between" the neighbouring Achnacree Livingstons and the Bachuil, Lismore Livingstons "custodians of Molaug's staff". It is interesting that Ian Carmichael expressed this view regarding the relationship between the Achnacree Livingstons and Bachuil Lismore Livingstons given that the earlier information on the Achnacree Livingstons in a July 1909 article in the Celtic Review by Alexander Carmichael of Lismore on Donald Livingston 1728-1816 of Savary, Morvern stated that Donald Livingston's Savary, Morvern ancestors originated from Benderloch/Achnacree area but that the Achnacree Livingstons were of "the same Line as the Bachuil Livingstones....but that they separated long ago." in his words. In the book Myth, Tradition and Story from Western Argyll by K.W. Grant published in 1928 the author seems to take the view held by most Clan Maclea Livingstones that the Achnacree Livingstones and the Bachuil Livingstones " were two distinct branches" of the Western Argyllshire Livingstones but then curiously adds the comment "more or less nearly related."

However you intrerpret the comments from these well respected Argyll historians of the past regarding the relationship of the Achnacree and Bachuil Livingstones, the DNA results of the two Morvern Livingstons so far tested matching with Mull Parker Livingstons suggests the possibility to me that Parker Livingstons could be connected to a shared ancestor who resided before 1600 in Achnacree/Benderloch area. One thing is quite likely and that is that the ancestors of our Morvern and Mull ancestors were not one of the old families that lived at Morvern or Mull. They came to that area much later perhaps as late as the 1500's or 1600's as Duncan Livingston of Scioto, Ohio was told by the Livingston old-timers who were born in Morvern, in his younger days. Are the Parker Livingstons descendants of an ancient and largely forgotten Achnacree Maconlea line? I don't really know. There is however one more significant bit of info not mentioned here that furthers supports the possibility of the Mull and Morvern Livingstons ancestors of the Parker Livingston Group participants being descendants of a distinct ancestral line but for now I leave you with all this to "mull" over for now.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Wikispaces

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:11 pm

Hi John and Kyle,

I think I actually am going to update my old Parker Livingston list with some added notes that I kept of those matching my cousin and some further details on the families that was passed on to me through discussions with the participants, shared info from researchers or through my own research. I have found that there are some details worth including specific to the Participant but at the same time I am trying to keep as brief and to the point as possible. The purpose of it in the future could be just for an aid in identifying future participants of the DNA project who also match with the Parker Livingston Group and perhap even one of these families. In many cases I have done some extensive research on these families or as in the case of John, they undertook their own family record search and wrote up a detailed summary. Unlike John some have not delved deeply into the old Scottish parish records or in some cases there is very little research information available on their scottish ancestors.

It will have in some cases some more crucial details but at the same time I am trying to keep bios relatively brief and precise as one could go on in greater detail. Perhaps this updated list could be combined in some ways with Andrew's earlier list or would work as an updated companion to his earlier list of brief bios. Anyways I think I will spend a week or more on working on that update and submit what I have assembled to you all including Andrew and Greg. There are only a couple whose ancestry is unknown and a few who have no information on their family when they lived in Scotland but it is pretty clear in even those cases that they came over Argyllshire. The two or three from Perthshire families as I have said probably somewhere down the road prior to 1800 are descended from Argyllshire Livingstons. Don't have proof of that but migration of Argyllshire families is known to have occurred in the 18th century as it was in close proximity to Argyllshire for one thing. And of course the dna results link these three families who lived in Perthshire as having results common to other Parker Livingstones who we do know have family roots in Western Argyllshire.

regards,

Donald
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Re: Wikispaces

Postby Canadian Livingstone » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Hi John and Kyle,

I said about 20 Livingstones in the Parker Livingstone group. Actually to be more precise 18 Livingstons including one who has only done a 37 marker test, one Parker whose ancestor I am pretty much certain was a Livingston and a Campbell whose has roots to a Campbell from Argyll who seems also likley to have a Livingston ancestral connection. So lets call that 20.

One more Livingston who recently in April sent in their kit may also connected to this group I am suspecting, but it is still early to say and I can't be certain they wont be a match with one of the other groups connected to Western Argyllshire. Just have to wait and see for those results to be released.

regards,

Donald
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