Irish Livingstone/Canadian

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Paul
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:22 am

Irish Livingstone/Canadian

Post by Paul »

Hello everyone,
I am new to the group and I have build a descent family tree. My grandmother was a Livingstone and all lived in the Limavady area of County Londonderry, Ireland. My mother said her father told her that the Livingstone's originally came from Blantyre, which I realize is a common thing among Livingstone families which all desire to be related to Dr Livingstone. I have done a DNA test which shows 49% Irish and 51% Scottish and yet I have never been able to make the jump back to Scotland due to the lack of Irish records. My father and the Big Y DNA test, places that side of the family well and truly in Donegal, Ireland. Dad was Catholic and mum was Presbyterian so my feeling is the Livingstone's may have come as part of the Plantation families.
I also found quite a few living relatives in Canada, who still carry the Livingstone name. Matthew Livingstone emigrated to Canada in 24 March 1928 and he had 4 sons, who have had more boys themselves and grandsons so there are quite a few living in the Simcoe, Norfolk County, Ontario, Canada area.
The oldest document I have, is Samuel Livingstone, death 12 July 1865 age 45 and a Griffith's Valuation document, Limavady, Ireland. I have found 3 Livingstone families in that area at the time, 2 with Samuel Livingstone as the heads, one a farmer and my Samuel as a shoemaker.
I believe that the Samuel's are related but again I have a lack of records. Most of the children from Samuel 1820-1865 moved to Scotland and spread across from Dunoon to Denny but I have only traced one of these down to living descendants today. The others I am still working on.
Any thoughts on how to trace Scottish people who left to settle in Ireland or any other ideas would be appreciated.
Kind Regards Paul
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2770
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Irish Livingstone/Canadian

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Paul,
Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum. I am the Clan Maclea Livingstone Clan Historian. Paternal Y DNA Livingstone testing by familytreedna and the Results of Y DNA testing of males born with the family name Livingstone/Livingston from all over the world seem to suggest diverse ancient famiy group origins. Many of those tested were known to be descended from Livingstone's/Livingston's of highland Western Argyllshire Maclea-Livingstone origins but interestingly the testing revealed a significant number of Livingstons whose Y DNA results and family history info suggested their ancient male ancestors were of some other Livingston family elsewhere in Scotland as in a number of Counties situated in Scottish lowlands. If you have any close or more distant male Livingston cousins whose birth father was a Livingston then you could encourage them to consider doing the "Y" DNA test many Livingstones including some known to be of Ulster "Scotch-Irish" Livingston origin much like yourself. My great-great paternal grandmother was a Livingston, but my father was not, so my only option to the Y DNA test was to ask a Livingston cousin family researcher if she had a brother or father who would be interested in becoming part of Y DNA project of Clan Livingstone. She fortunately thought it was a great idea and her father kindly offered to do the Y DNA test. Unfortunately with this Y DNA test you really need a male with male Y Chromsomes a Livingston whose father, grandfather etc down the paternal ancestral line were in fact "Livingstone. So if your father's name was not Livingston but you have Livingston ancestry as I do then finding a male Livingston cousin somewhere out there is definitely a viable option for the Y DNA test with Famiytreedna I have mentioned.

Among those male Livingstons that did the family tree Y DNA test over the years a number had family history indicating that they were indeed descended from perhaps several Lowland Livingston families some apparently from the County of Ayrshire. who were encouraged in the early 1600's during the Irish Plantation Period to settle in the the six counties in the North in Ulster, Ireland. Most of those families were primarily Scottish Presbyterians. Interestingly the results of some of the Livingstons whose lowland Scottish ancestors settled in what is today Northern Ireland back in the early 1600's who did the family tree Y DNA test of paternal Y DNA seem to rooted in different unrelated lowland Scottish Livingston families who settled there at that time in Ireland's history known as the Plantation Period.

Before I became involved with the Clan Maclea Livingstone and doing research on my own Livingston family connected to my Father's side of my family, I spent quite of bit of time researching in the 1990's my Mother's County Antrim Northern Ireland paternal ancestors of her father's family. Researching your Ulster ancestors is as you probably have discovered by now is very difficult and challenging as regrettably most of the 19th century Ulster Census records and other pertinent family records were destroyed in a fire early in the twentieth century. One must often rely for 19th century info on the 1830's Irish Tithe records which includes tenants residing then in the six counties of Ulster. Also as you mentioned later from the 1860's the Griffith's Valuation. If you know are fortunate to have some idea from old family history info where your ancestor resided in the 1800's such as the name the Parish and Townland in Ulster you may get lucky and find the tombstone of your Scotch-Irish ancestor and his kin in the one of many old gravestones still standing.


Owing to the unfortunate lack of 19th century records or from lack of famiy history information in many cases some researchers never locate information on their Ulster ancestors. In the case of my Mother's family the old-timers in her father's family knew of a famous ancestor in the 1800's a medical surgeon during the Crimean war a younger brother of my Mom's ancestor whose family were tenant farmers located a few miles from Carrickfergus, County Antrim Ireland, so my Mom's cousin was able make contact through newspaper inquiries with those families related to our Ulster family who knew where our Ulster family was buried in County Antrim and even knew where the old field stone farmhouse of my Mom's family from the early 1800's was situated and still standing all be it with significant damage to the roof.

It is really just a lot of luck and checking whatever meagre resources you can find available to help your Ulster family research some of which I have mentioned.18th and 19th century Scottish family research is by far quite easier in comparison, which is pretty much Of course it really helps if you have some old family information regarding the village, Townland or Parish and County in 19th century Ireland where your ancestor resided. Some people I have been in contact with doing Ulster family research don't even have that.

Many Livingstones/Livingstons worldwide of Scottish origin quite often have an old family story, probably in many cases originating in the later 1800's when the famous Doctor's popularity was on the rise, that their Scottish Livingston family were connected to the family or ancestors of famous missionary and explorer, Dr. David Livingstone. The reality I have found over these years only a few of them actually had detailed records or a credible family story actually linking them with Dr. David Livingstone. My own father grew up thinking his great-grandmother who from a MOrvern, Argyll Livingston family was related somehow to famous explorer and my father's late cousin who was the family researcher was also very much convinced of it. The Y DNA test of our Livingston cousin however proved when compared with the Y DNA results of a Livingston descendant of Dr. David Livingstone's older brother, that our Morvern Argyll Livingston ancestors were not likely even remotely paternally related to Dr. David Livingstone or his Livingstone ancestors.

Regarding locating records of your earliest Scottish Livingston ancestors who settled in 1600's in Ireland in most cases is quite difficult. I know Mom's Scottish ancestors settled in County Antrim in the 1600's and I suspect they were originally from Ayrshire, Scotland but I have no proof of that nor have I had any luck finding information my Mom's ancestors in Ireland in the 1600's. I have located her family in the Tithe Records of the 1830's and Griffith Valuation of the 1860 and have located the gravestones of Mom's Great-great grandparents and great-great-great grandparents in a graveyard in County Antrim. But before that I have not had any luck. Some wills later in the 1800's were also found but the earlier 1800's wills for my Mom's family did not survive, though i did find wills mentioned and indexed in a surviving Wills index from the early 1800's.

I took a quick look at a Tithes records index for the Limavady area I think possibly dating from the 1830's but could not find any Livingstons listed there, but as you mentioned Samuel Livingston was listed as a resident in a house in Limavady in the 1860's Griffith's Valuation. Also noticed a Samuel Livingston and family in the 1911 Irish Census in Newtown Limavady in Drumachose Parish, Derry. The 1830's Tithes records index that was done by someone recently I assume could have missed Livingstons or perhaps Samuel's Livingston family was residing elsewhere. My assumption would be that if this Tithe index info is correct and your Livingstons are not residing in Limavady in the 1830's then they might well be situated elsewhere in Drumachose Parish, Derry. Most people in Londonderry as elsewhere in Ireland in the 1830's rented or leased their property from local land owning families. The 1830's Irish Tithe records are generally speaking quite helpful as a substitute for the missing Irish census records of 1841 as the Tithe records include a listing of tenants as well as wealthy landowners whom rented and leased their property to them. I located my mother's great-great grandfather in the Carrickfergus area of County Antrim very easily through a 1830's Tithe record that included the Parish and Townland where he was a tenant farmer a few miles outside of the Town of Carrickfergus. Distant relatives in County Antrim later took me to the old graveyard where my Mom's great-great granparents and her great-great-great grandparents were buried not far from the remains of their fieldstone farmhouse.

Some marriage and birth records of the 19th century do survive as do some wills. I found my Mom's great-great grandfather will from 1859 but only found mention of her great-great-great grandfather's will of 1832 briefly mentioned in the surviving County Antrim Will index as the earlier 18th and 19th century wills were also probably destroyed in that fire in the Dublin Public Records office in the early 1900's. I am not familiar with the status of 19th century Wills of Londonderry but worth perhaps searching for your Livingston relatives in the Will index and seeing if any Livingston wills from the 19th century possibly still survive.

regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
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