New Livingstone Australia Tartan

[Bachuil]

There is a convention that used to be followed by The Scottish Tartan Society, that when a minor change to a tartan was suggested it had to be approved by the chief. Now that faceless and unaccountable civil servants are in charge it seems that this courtesy has been swept aside.

The registrar refused to divulge his details to the STA - let alone enter any discussions. This Tartan may be registered with the Edinburgh "keepers" of our National Heritage but given the historical position, as many chiefs before me have done I do not approve it.

Shun it and the registrar.

[Kyle MacLea]

There is a convention that used to be followed by The Scottish Tartan Society, that when a minor change to a trtan was suggested it had to be approved by the chief. Now that faceless and unaccountable civil servants are in charge it seems that this courtesy has been swept aside.

Bachuil,
I didn't know this. That is good to know! I would think that it should be very easy for them to indicate which have been approved by a Chief or not. Why don't they do this?

The registrar refused to divulge his details to the STA - let alone enter any discussions. This Tartan may be registered with the Edinburgh "keepers" of our National Heritage but given the historical position, as many chiefs before me have done I do not approve it. Shun it and the registrar.

I was wondering: Would you consider any additional tartans designated for members of the Clan? For instance if the cadet branches wanted to develop (related) tartans, would it be possible to design them? Or, even families within the Clan? For this, I think of the McLeas of Bute from whom I descend, but you could also wonder about tartans for McLea of Achnacree, etc. Or do you consider the tartans to be "set in cloth" as it were, and better to simply leave be?

Any thoughts?

Kyle=

[Bachuil]

Kyle,

A coat of Arms is an individual item - and the beauty of it is that the science enables you to declare your individuality whilst recognising your associations.

Tartan is a bit like a football strip. It is supposed to unite and a proliferation of tartans is noxious. The Macleas of Achnacree, or Lindsaig would wear the same tartan as their chief. Now, there was a falling out between Maclaine of Lochbuie and Maclean of Duart and they have different tartans. This is the symbol of a house divided.

I am doing my best to unite the clan.

Hope this clarifies.

N

[Kyle MacLea]

Tartan is a bit like a football strip. It is supposed to unite and a proliferation of tartans is noxious. The Macleas of Achnacree, or Lindsaig would wear the same tartan as their chief. Now, there was a falling out between Maclaine of Lochbuie and Maclean of Duart and they have different tartans. This is the symbol of a house divided.

I am doing my best to unite the clan.

That clarifies very well, thank you, Niall!

Kyle=

[D.W.Livingston]

Tartan is a bit like a football strip. It is supposed to unite and a proliferation of tartans is noxious. The Macleas of Achnacree, or Lindsaig would wear the same tartan as their chief. Now, there was a falling out between Maclaine of Lochbuie and Maclean of Duart and they have different tartans. This is the symbol of a house divided.

I am doing my best to unite the clan.

Wow, I can honestly say I got goose bumps. I agree 100% with the idea that a tartan is meant to unite the clan. Without even knowing the why's and history when I looked at all the tartans in the registrar I got the feeling like... and this is where my lack of strong writing skills comes into play... I feel that too many tartan designs weakens the system. Each new tartan created "for ther heck of it" is like a drop of water that dilutes the entire thing. Now if a clan doesn't have a tartan and the recognized head of the society/clan/family makes one then that is different but having 5 tartans for an area or specific family just because someone doesn't like how this color looks or because it would be more eye pleasing with that color... it loses its meaning and then becomes a piece of clothes, like do I wear the black shirt, or the blue or maybe the red.

I truly felt an awe when I read "unite the clan". I am all for that.
Thank you All

[Kyle MacLea]

I truly felt an awe when I read "unite the clan". I am all for that.

One sees the plethora of new tartans and can sometimes lose the forest for the trees. I think this is a good reinforcement of the united identity of the clan that we are all trying to preserve. Let us be united!

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi David,

Thanks for digging up some of that information from the ghosts ofmaclea livingstone past and delving further into that Tartan manufacter. Yes it is hard to say whether these old tartan manufacturers would hang on to the information I am looking for regarding the tartan origins in any kind of archives or collection of records. I suspect not but I guess it is worth a try investigating. Certainly it is very clear to me that despite information from someTartan websites to the contrary our Livingstone Tartan 1003 did not originate with Robert Bain who was a tartan researcher and author from the 1920's and a Glasgow librarian. The origins of our tartan is a subject which has always intrieged and fascinated me. Perhaps I will never find what I am looking for but I never stop trying.

Baron Livingstone at one time made the point that while some tartan books seem to suggest that Tartan 1003 is the tartan of the lowland Livingston family of Callendar and Linlithgo this is highly unlikely and if anything it origins lie with the highland clan.

Generally in most tartan books the highland clan Livingstone is lucky to get a paragraph devoted to them which seems very wrong. Are we forever to be a one paragraph clan? Perhaps once the Clan Society is established one of things we could take a look at is writing and publishing an official book on our Clan history and origins. A formidable task but given all work that Baron Livingstone, the late Rob Livingston and others have done in recent years in this area certainly within the rhelm of possibilities.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle,

I will take a look at that albanach tartan site you mentioned tonight after supper. It looks to be quite an interesting and extensive site for anyone with an interest in tartans and clans. Did you notice that North Carolina Tartan Museum site I think I contacted them once looking for information. Lots of Argyllshire highlanders settled in North Carolina to be sure including highland Livingstones. Loving my new computer. Managed to retrieve the Canadian Livingstone research from my old damaged notebook computer fortunately. That will teach me to save my documents.

regards,

Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

I will take a look at that albanach tartan site you mentioned tonight after supper. It looks to be quite an interesting and extensive site for anyone with an interest in tartans and clans. Did you notice that North Carolina Tartan Museum site I think I contacted them once looking for information. Lots of Argyllshire highlanders settled in North Carolina to be sure including highland Livingstones.

Yes-Matt Newsome FSA is the historian at the Scottish Tartans Museum there. He's VERY knowledgeable!

Loving my new computer. Managed to retrieve the Canadian Livingstone research from my old damaged notebook computer fortunately. That will teach me to save my documents.

Glad you saved everything AND are enjoying the new computer! Wonderful!

Kyle=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi all,
It was the confusing variety of tartans referred to as Livingston tartan on various tartan websites that led me to try and understand the origins of our highland tartan 1003 which I understood to be the oldest Livingston tartan and the one Baron Livingston wore. While i will never likely be an expert on clan tartans on the level of someone like Robert Bain i was interested in trying to discover the mysteries surounding what is likely our earliest tartan. I appreciate the Baron clarifying his position regarding the tartan issue as I was wondering what his feeling was regarding all these numerous other tartans out there that are referred to as Livingston tartans. i am not familiar with the rules and regulations regarding clan tartans as much as I should but it certainly stands to reason that as a clan society we should encourage Livingstons to embrace the tartan favoured by our Chief and his late father and probably his father before him.

regards,

Donald