Nova Scotia/PEI Livingstone Research

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Roberta,
Happy New Year!
Regarding the results for those DNA folks whose Livingston ancestors originated from Western Argyll which includes for example Mull, Morvern, Appin, Isle of Lismore,Duror Lettermore, Ballachulish, Ardgour, Glencoe and Benderloch, I think will just have wait for greater numbers, familiarize ourselves with their family origins and see how they match. Buoyed by the apparent linkage of some of us in the Parker Liivngston with apparent Mull /Morvern origins I am obviously hoping to looking out for possible family connections albeit a few centuries distant in many cases. But the fact is that some Livingstons from Mull area may not match up to what Andrew has referred to us as the Parker Livingston group. Clearly as Andrew and Kyle would probably agree, making sense of the some of the results can be challenging. That being said I was encouraged to see my Livingston family of MOrvern origin match at 67-3 with a maritime Livingston family descended from that Donald and Mary Livingstone of Movern and Mull that settled in Lot 65 QUeens County PEI in the year 1806 with several of his grownup sons and daughters. And of course I was pleased to see that your Livingstons and Rogers and several others also are some sort of match to my Livingston family at more distant 67 marker level. Many other Livingstons tested dont match at all with our Parker Livingston group. I think that Andrew and Kyle were pleased to see this little group started to develop some close matches. I expect more matches some even closer related when other test results happen in the next few years. I think at this point in the process we are just trying to establish the various Livingston DNA groups. I think the next phase will prove very interesting. I never knew there were so many Livingstons out there and we have quite a variety of Livingstons being tested as you can see from the DNA site all with their own interesting family histories.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

HI Roberta, Jewel and Mary-Ann,
Happy New Year!

As Mary-Ann was pointing out I also got the impression from Dr. St. Clair that the Mull River and Whycocomagh Livingston families and their origins and connections were still something of mystery and remained so to Dr. St. Clair although he has lived in the area most of his life and has devoted a large part of his life to studying Livingstons and other Inverness COunty, Cape Breton families. The records as I am sure he would point out are not extentive or clear regarding either the Mull River or their neighbouring Livingstons in Wycocomagh. I felt compelled to respond to our friend Barry Judson's find of a 1867 funeral obituary from PEI for his great-great grandfather Colin Livingston indicating that Colin was from the small village of Whycocomagh and work with what I thought was and is a significant breakthrough in the Mull RIver/Whycocomagh Livingston family research. Taking what Dr. St. Clair had told me in a series of informative emails last year I put the jig puzzle piece on the table and thought I saw something that apparently had not been considered before. A new angle to this Mull RIver/Whycocomagh livingston. None of this would have happened without Barry providing with me the possibility that Alexander Livingston farmer at Whycocomagh had a brother Colin Livingston who also lived at Whycocomagh though it had been a slow and difficult process to determine if indeed Barry's great-great grandfather had actually lived at Whycocomagh, especially given the fact that when I finally did find out that the Cape Breton Genealogical Society had confirmed and entry of Colin Livingston it turned out be a Colleen Liivngston and very hard to read Colleen Livingston at that. Barry however did confirm that number of family members listed in the 1861 Census did match the family information he had for his great-great grandfather. I could make out Colleen Livingston but depending on the microfilm copy and the viewer it could easily be a problem to do so. I have actually seen alot worse census records actually than that one where did all kinds of desperate technical tricks to try and decipher the mess before me.

Interesting that Dr. St. Clair said the stone was erected relatively recently.
The stone certainly looked older than 30 years but maybe I need to look to enlarge the image more and get a closer look. It looked like a stone from around the early 1900's WW1 period to me which made me wonder if that was not a stone purchased around the time old Kate's wake in 1912. I would have presumed that a granite stone would have been bought and paid for her by her son Hugh or other relatives after the big wake they had for her at her old home at Livingston Mountain, Mull River/SE Mabou in Inverness County, Cape Breton. So perhaps the stone that was there in 1912 was an old primitive original stone that was long gone by the 1970's so they erected this one in the 1970's or perhaps there was no marker for he in 1912 perhaps just a small flat stone on the ground.

So I like to think we are building upon the admirable foundations established by Dr. St. Clair an expert on old Cape Breton families and trying to unravel a few perplexing mysteries. I am glad to hear Mary ANne was able to get through to him and clarify a few things with her notes and with him.

regards,

Donald

[Roberta Ann]

Hi Donald;

Happy New Year, Donald.

Yes, I agree that the stone looks very old. There are no dates beneath John Sr., Mary and Duncan. My conclucion is that the stone was erected for Old Kate, some time after she died and whomever erected this stone had no idea when John Sr., Mary or Duncan was born or when they died. It could also mean that John Sr., Mary and Duncan are not even buried there; their names being added to Kate's stone as a memorial to her father - in - law and his family. After all, it is a Pioneer Cemetery and the Pioneer was, really, John And Mary.

Regards

Roberta

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Roberta and Mary Ann,

People often went without a proper gravestone or no gravestone at all. In some family plots in a farmers field some just were marked by a simple field stone. In later years not everyone could afford more elaborate stones of limestone, slate or later on granite. My great great grandfather on my moms side died in 1879 a year before a local new cemetery was established and he had been buried in an old church cemetery that was seldom used after 1880 when the church congregation amalgamated with another local methodist congregation. No only was the cemetery largely unused and neglected in years after that but my great grandfather and his brothers and sister had cheaped out on the gravestone and one of my great Uncles who was a contractor attempted I was told to make some sort of primitive concrete marker which 50 years later was pretty much broken pebbles and concrete according to late cousin who vaguely remembered seeing it in their youth in the 1920's. She just died a year or two ago I regret that I never tried to get her to remember precisely where thought the grave had been located in that old cemetery which nowseldom visited and on private property. I suspect when the family whose land the old cemetery was on tryed to fix it up as a local history project in the 1930's what was left of my ancestors grave stone was probably swept away and by the 1950's all of my great Uncles and Aunts who knew for certain where he had been buried had all died. Anyways it is easy enough to end up without a gravestone.

regards,

Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Jewel and Roberta,
I have been kept busy tonight with a number of new Livingstons.
We have been contacted by two Livingstons by e-mail who have probable Nova Scotia and PEI Livington connections. We are in the process of directing them to the forum. The one has a Massachussetts connection I believe and is states he is descended from a Duncan Livingston and Mary O'Connell. Perhaps he is related somehow to Mary-Anne. I'm not certain.

The other one has roots to PEI and is descended from Allan Livingston believed to be a grandson of Donald and Mary Livingston of Lot 65, Queens County PEI arrived on the "Rambler" in 1806. His possible grandson ALlan Livingston b.1816 and is living in Lot 65 PEI we need to verify actually is the grandson of Donald and Mary Livingston but this seems to be the case. There should be some way of proving that in 1881 he is living on the old property of Donald and Mary Livingston or his sons who came to PEI aboard the Rambler with him in 1806. I am fairly certain this mans ancestor Allan Livingston b, 1816 in the 1881 Census in PEi is part of that family but it would be ideal to have more proof.

regards,

Donald

[Roberta Ann]

Hi Donald;

I have been trying to locate the origins of the Pugwash - Wentworth County, Nova Scotia, Livingstones.

I would like to know what you have on these Livingstones. I have Catherine Livingstone born in Scotland who died in Pugwash Feb. 12, 1866; age 57 and whose husband is listed as John Livingstone.
I checked the Mull site and the only one that fits is Catherine b. April 16, 1809 d/o Duncan Livingstone and Mary McLachlan.
Then there is her husband, John, died age 92; widower, May 21, 1874. Informant: Angus Livingstone. The only fit I could find is John b.Jan. 20, 1782 s/o Duffus Livingstone and Mary Campbell.
I am also trying to locate Duncan who died Halifax age 85 in 1908. Anyway, as I said; I would like to know what you have on these Wentworth County Livingstones.

Regards;

Roberta

[Roberta Ann]

Hi again, Donald;

Re: Duncan Livingston b. 1841 and Mary Agnes O'Connell. Well I think we have determined that he was married around 1865 to Mary Agnes. Then, for some reason, went home; to Nova Scotia around 1872. He impregnated Mary Mcdonald and was forced to go through a marriage in 1874, to legitimise the coming child. Additionally, Maryanne believes that she is a descendent of this child, who was named Hugh Livingston.
We then find him on a Steamer the SS Montreal bound for New York in April of 1878. After that he and his wife, Mary Agnes, travelled to several states; as evidenced by the place of the birth of their children. I can't think of anymore information that we could pursue.
A far as obtaining certificates of proof. I know of none. Except, of course, his marrige in 1874. He lists himself as an American citizen on his trip from Montreal to New York.
Donald, in the information on his 1874 wedding, is the son of John and Catherine and Mary the daughter of Alexander and Mary McDonald. Witnesses: Thomas Cumming and Donald McPherson.
Then we have to consider a participant in our DNA project, Kit#107477, who says he is the grandson of Duncan Livingston and Mary Agnus O'Connell.

Regards;

Roberta

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Roberta,

There is something odd about this Duncan Livingston and Mary O'Connell information and cant quite figure out what it is. Is it possible there were two Duncan Livingstons. ANyways regarding this i have good news. I thought you, Jewel and Mary Ann would be interested in knowing that I was contacted by e-mail the other day by a Livingston who states that he is a descendant of a Duncan Livingston and Mary O'Connell but who lived in Masasachussetts or his family did. He may be related to Mary Ann but you and MAry Ann can sort that out. Kyle and I should be able to get him to drop by the forum and visit the NOvA Scotia PEI Livingstone Group. You and Jewel I know have done alot of research related to Duncan and Mary O'Connell and Mary Ann is related to Duncan and Mary O'Connell or the other Mary that married Duncan in 1874. Anyways I will see what I could do about getting him to drop by. Also contacted by yet another descendant of DOnald and Mary Livingston who arrived in 1806 aboard the Rambler with his married sons and daughters and settled at Lot 65, Queens County, PEI. THis family is buried at Canoe Creek Cemetery. His ancestor ALlan Janet Livingston a grandson of old Donald and Mary is buried in that old cemetery but there apparently is no grave located for old Donald and Mary Livingston there. Allan was born in Scotland in 1816 and apparently arrived later and joined his parents or his grandfather Donald at their farm at lOt 65, QUeens County PEI. The gentleman is trying to find out precisely when Allan arrived in PEI joining the rest of the family at Lot 65 but that is probably not easily found out. Sometime after 1816 to be certain. ANyways Kyle, Andrew and I will try to get him to come to the forum as soon as we can to join with your Maritime Livingston discussion group.

regards,

Donald

[Jewel]

Hello to all,

I just wanted to chime in on Maryannes relatives, Duncan Livingstone, born about 1841 in Nova Scotia, and Mary Agnes O'connel.

I had in the past found In the U.S. census a Duncan Livingstone b. Nov. 1844 in Canada living in Illinois with his wife a Mary A. also born Canada, and 3 children, the children were born in three different states, I do remember the first child was born in New York and the other two were born in Wisconson & Ohio, a fourth child born in Illinois. I had tracked them for several census in Illinos and thought this might be the Duncan Livingstone Maryanne was looking for. And then I found a death record for this Duncan Livingston and it stated his wifes name was Mary A. Conydon so I think we can eliminate this lead as Duncans wifes name was Mary A. O'Connel.

Jewel

[Kyle MacLea]

And then I found a death record for this Duncan Livingston and it stated his wifes name was Mary A. Conydon so I think we can eliminate this lead as Duncans wifes name was Mary A. O'Connel.

Not just a horribly mangled spelling, a smudge of ink, or a mis-transcription?

I've found some pretty bad ones, like my ancestor's "McKleeve"!

Probably not, and I'm sure you know the answer to this, but just checking!

Kyle=