Duncan Livingston, slate quarrier at Balvicar

[jmlivingstone]

Hi Donald,

I'm due to be home in about 4-5 weeks, I'll see if he knows, or can find out anything about Dalemaig for us,

John

[Margaret Stewart]

Hi Donald,

Correction to last night's message. I plead tiredness or senior moment! I was looking through all my old maps when I realised the road I had described leading to Ardmaddy Castle was not in fact the one leading to the Cuan Ferry. Just in case you had a look at a map and wondered what I was on about!

Margaret

[jmlivingstone]

Donald/Margaret,

Looking at Duncan Livingstones in Greenock, I came across a strange one, I knew I had an uncle called Duncan, who died around 1908, this I have verified, just to confuse things, I have now found another Duncan, who died next door, but in 1914. One at 11, Regent St., the other one at 13, Regent St.

Parents appear to be the same, so, I now have to look at whether they named a second son, who also died at under two years old, Duncan,

John

[Margaret Stewart]

Hi John

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was the case that they had named another son after his deceased brother. I have come across this several times. The naming pattern was strong around this time so the first Duncan would probably have been named after one of his grandfathers or father who would be anxious that this particular name was carried on through the generations.

This naming patten can be a great help or a huge hindrance. In another branch of my family I had two couples in Fife with the same groom's and bride's names. It turned out they were married a few months apart and lived a few miles away. It was only when I reached 12 children, one of whom was born 6 months after another and had the same name that I finally realised something was wrong. I had noticed I had "doublers" but assumed the first one had died so the parents used the name again. It was through in Edinburgh and I was racing through the microfiche (shows how long ago it was) and scribbling the details without really checking the date of parent's marriage. I had to wait till I got home to sort it all out. The two families were probably related further down the line because the children's names were all the same but I never did go back to check out the second family's line.

Hope you get yours sorted out.

Margaret

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi John,
I think sometimes that for some it was result of the grieving process after losing a beloved member of the family.
I came across a while back a highland Livingston family who had settled in North Carolina, USA in the early 1800's whose son Charles Livingston joined the Confederate Army during the U.S Civil war of the 1860's and who died uring the War. Another son was born shortly after the end of the War and was named Charles and it is presumed this was done in memory of the son the family had lost in the War.
regards,
Donald

[Kyle MacLea]

I have an Isabella in my family who died in the earlier 1890s quite young, and then later that same decade, their last child was also Isabella. Made things very confusing when I found the death certificate before finding the second Isabella--because I knew she lived a long time!

BTW, this thread is fascinating, great work, all of you!

Kyle=

[smcairnx]

Hello Margaret,

I can't thank you enough for the detailed list of descendants for Donald Livingstone and Jean Donaldson. I'd been away for the weekend and it was real pleasant suprise to come home to.

The information will be invaluable in finding out more about my direct and less direct Livingstone roots. I had discovered that my great-grandmother (Jane born in 1876) had a younger sister Barbara but not the other 3 sibblings, including another set of twins. Kenneth seems an unusual Livingston name - I wondered if that is linked to the father. It seems that Isabella (born 1856) had a hard life. I know from my the birth certificates of Jane and Barbara that she worked as a domestic servant.

Jane Livingstone moved to Dundee where she worked as a jute prepared. She married my great grandfather Joseph Timmons in 1901. They married shortly after the birth of their second child and went on to have further children, including my grandmother. Jane died in 1972 of complications following a borken femur.

In addition to wondering what took her to Dundee I also wonder what took her grandfather Donald and his brother Neil to the wider Glasgow area. Perhaps it was to find work - his father-in-law worked in lime stone quarry according to his wife's death certficate.

Having found all this out I have now planned a return visit to the Isle of Seil in the summer - just for one night though so any recommendations on how best to spend my time would be welcome.


I also live in Scotland - in Edinburgh so a short trip is feasible.

Regards

Sandra

PS Donald - following your recommendation I order The Islands that Roofed the World which arrived today. I am looking forward to reading it.

[Margaret Stewart]

Hi Sandra

I know it'll take you a while to absorb all the information I sent you. If you then want to come back to me with any questions I'll be happy to help.

When you mention Jane's grandfather Donald and his brother Neil (my 2 x Gt Grandfather) moving to the wider Glasgow area I wasn't aware of this. Neil certainly lived and died in Lochgilphead and so far as I know Donald lived in Easdale all his life. In the 1861 census his address is given as 25 Dalemaig No.2 and he's a Farm Servant. By 1871 he is now a gardener (no actual address on my copy of the census) but somewhere along the line I must have read he was a gardener at Ardmaddy Castle and he died in 1877 with Easdale given as his place of death.

A visit to Easdale Island and the little Museum is a must but do remember that "Easdale" referred to in certificates etc is not necessarily just the island. Ellenabeich and some of the surrounding area was also known as Easdale. I should also tell you that the ferry to the island is an open motor boat so it helps if its a nice day!

There is also a Heritage Centre at Ellenabeich which is worth a visit. Lots of photographs and model scenes showing how the quarriers drilled into the rock face, hammered in pegs and laid a platform to stand on. No H & S then! In fact I think one of our ancestors fell from the face and injured his leg. Must look back to find him - maybe a John Livingston - not sure.

I have mentioned this before on the forum but during my first visit to the museum on the island I spotted a group photograph of quarriers all wearing sashes. They were Rechabites and one of them so closely resembled my father as a young man that it was a bit freaky. The curator didn't have the names of the men in the photograph but she did let me see the log book noting their subsciptions and sure enough there were three Livingstons in it. I never did manage to identify which family they came from and I believe that log book is now archived (in the loft of the museum)!

Enough for now. Get in touch with me if you want any further information. I've been researching the Livingston(e)s since 1996 so I've amassed a pile of information. Great hobby!

Kind regards

Margaret

[smcairnx]

Margaret,

Yes I was getting slightly mixed up - am I right in thinking that Donald and Jean got married in Glasgow and one child in that area before moving back to Easdale ? This is partly due to the 1861 census record which I have access to as it lists all the children as been born in Renfrew along with Jean. However I know that this isn't the case as, for example, my great great grandmother's birth certificate states quite cleary that she was born in Armaddy in Kilbrandon.

Thanks for keeping me the straight and for the suggestions of where to visit.

I think I need to spend some time digesting all the information, going through the census records and making sense of who live where and when and doing what.

Regards

Sandra

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Margaret and Sandra,

THe Census records are a bit inconsistent in terms of the birthplace info I noticed for this family and therefore somewhat confusing for the Donald Livingston-Jean Donaldson family researchers. We have the parish marriage record which clearly indicates Donald and Jean were married in 1835 in Glasgow.No question about that. Now the 1851 Scottish Census recorded when the family was residing in Kilbrandon Parish, Argyllshire then indicates that John the first born was born in Lochwinoch, in lowland Ayrshire but the original Scottish parish record entry for the Glasgow area indicates that John son of Donald Livingston and Jean Donaldson was in fact born 20/08/1835 in Glasgow. The 1851 Census however then indicates that the next son Duncan interestingly was born in Glasgow. Now I dont have Glasgow parish record of his birth but that could be the case. Then the 1851 Census info lists the next child Mary as being born in Kilbrandon Parish which is correct isnt it? I suspect that John and probably Duncan were born in Glasgow then Mary around 1843 born in Kilbrandon Parish when Donald returned with his family to highland Argyllshire in the early 1840's presumingly.

The 1861 Scottish Census info is inaccurate as far as it states that Donald's wife and family were born in Renfrewshire and the surviving parish records for this family support this notion. The 1871 census just indicates that Donald and the remaining children at home were all born in Kilbrandon Parish. I think that the oldest John and Duncan were born in Glasgow in lowland Lanarkshire and the rest in Kilbrandon Parish, in highland Argyllshire. And Lochwinoch, Ayrshire was Jean Donaldson's place of origin.

Western Argyllshire the ancestral homeland for highland Maclea Livingstones has a number of both scenic and historically significant places you could visit including the Isle of Seil, Sound of Seil, Armady Castle and neighbouring Easdale that you and Margaret mentioned in your information. Our Heriditary Clan Chief Baron Niall Livingstone, Baron of Bachuil resides on the Isle of Lismore at Bachuil. Lismore is a beautiful Island steeped with ancient history and some interesting ruins. Nearby is Appin, Mull and Morvern all places where Livingstones tenants lived in significant numbers. In addition to Luing, Easdale and Seil for your slate island tour there is lovely spot of Ballachulish where Livingstons worked the slate quarry. I am sure this would be a great trip worthy of many photographs.

regards,

Donald