Hi Calliek,
I think that John McVicar had at least two children born at the Red River Settlement but dont remember where I saw that. I will check that again and see if i can find where. I dont know of an Archibald McVicar. Im afraid as far as Red River settlers goes my knowledge is pretty much limited to Livingstons. I noticed that John McVicar is listed with Donald Livingston Sr. in the records. Actually the other DOnald Livingston Jr. born 1796 listed in the settlement records was actually my ancestor Miles Livingston' son. he was teenage laborer at the settlement. I think they must elder vs younger and not father and son but it has led to some confusion over the years. The older Donald Livingston was a boatbuilder like my ancestor Miles and came with Miles to the settlement and was a friend of John McVicar who both had previously resided on the Isle of Islay.
regards,
Donald
John McVicar, Red River Settlement
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Canadian Livingstone
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Re: John McVicar, Red River Settlement
We have a match!
I contacted the Selkirk Society (thank you for the suggestion Donald!) and their genealogist Chloe replied and had this to add:
from the Selkirk Papers, journal of Miles Macdonell:
p. 16897 May 10, 1814: birth of s/o John McVicar, RRS
p. 16898 May 12, 1814: bt of Archibald, s/o John McVicar, RRS, by Mr. Auld
The baptism is off by a day to the record I have but otherwise I think it's pretty definitive that Archibald McVicar born at the RRS is my 3 x great grandfather!
Chloe is sending me more later today so I will report back with anything interesting!
I contacted the Selkirk Society (thank you for the suggestion Donald!) and their genealogist Chloe replied and had this to add:
from the Selkirk Papers, journal of Miles Macdonell:
p. 16897 May 10, 1814: birth of s/o John McVicar, RRS
p. 16898 May 12, 1814: bt of Archibald, s/o John McVicar, RRS, by Mr. Auld
The baptism is off by a day to the record I have but otherwise I think it's pretty definitive that Archibald McVicar born at the RRS is my 3 x great grandfather!
Chloe is sending me more later today so I will report back with anything interesting!
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Canadian Livingstone
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Re: John McVicar, Red River Settlement
Hi KallieK,
Thats terrific. I knew that there were some folks with the Selkirk Society who are quite familiar with records pertaining to the Red River Settlement. I will tell you an interesting story about the early baptismal records pertaining to my family at the Red River Settlement. Although my great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingston b.1775 with other settlers coerced to the leave the Red RIver Settlement by Duncan Cameron and the North West Company in June of 1812 and their settlement put to the torch, remarkably a list of the baptisms performed by settlement leader Miles McDonnell during the 1812-1815 period were found several years later. This list included the baptism of my great-great grandmother Mrs. John Clink (Nancy ( Ann) Livingston) b.1813 and her brother Hugh Livingston b.1814. Parents were Miles Livingston and his wife Janet Livingston. Despite the almost total destruction of the settlement in June of 1815 and the removal of Miles McDonnell and the settlers that this record should resurface in the 1820's as it did was a piece of luck. I have not been able to get a copy of this original list, though I think I know where it is. I will try again sometime soon. I have the baptismal info for Miles two children baptised at tthe settlement but want to get a photocopy of the original document or photograph. It lists a number of baptisms performed by Settlement Leader Miles McDonnell and includes the names of a number of children born to the original Red River Settlers from this period including settler Donald Livingstone and his wife Ann McGillverary. Donald and Ann as I mentioned were on the boat with Ann. Donald Livingston was the boatbuilder whom I mentioned arrived at the settlement in October of 1812 with Miles, his second wife Janet and his teenage son Donald whom ended up as a labourer at the settlement. Miles was also apparently recruited as a boatbuilder but the first year focused upon being a settler. Following his departure from the settlement in 1815, Miles and family settled in Etobicoke, Upper Canada where according to Upper Canada records he folk work in his trade as a boatbuilder. In 1819 he received a grant of 100 acres in Esquesing Township in Halton County and located in the "Scotch Block". By the 1830's he is living in the village of Acton in Esquesing Township with his son Daniel Livingston a millwright and resident of the village where he employed as a cooper (barrel maker) a trade that he may have learned on the Isle of Islay with its whiskey industry.
There are a few things I dont have from the Red River records pertaining to my ancestor but I have most of them from when I was touch with the Manitoba Archives and a descendant of LIvingstones who lived at Red RIVER. I am hoping someday to locate a few more records from Lord Selkirks papers that I am aware pertain to Livingstons. I am glad that your having some success with your Red RIver colony research. Our families were a part of an interesting chapter in early Canadian history, early Manitoba history, and one which is actually quite well documented fortunately for family researchers like ourselves.
regards,
Donald
Thats terrific. I knew that there were some folks with the Selkirk Society who are quite familiar with records pertaining to the Red River Settlement. I will tell you an interesting story about the early baptismal records pertaining to my family at the Red River Settlement. Although my great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingston b.1775 with other settlers coerced to the leave the Red RIver Settlement by Duncan Cameron and the North West Company in June of 1812 and their settlement put to the torch, remarkably a list of the baptisms performed by settlement leader Miles McDonnell during the 1812-1815 period were found several years later. This list included the baptism of my great-great grandmother Mrs. John Clink (Nancy ( Ann) Livingston) b.1813 and her brother Hugh Livingston b.1814. Parents were Miles Livingston and his wife Janet Livingston. Despite the almost total destruction of the settlement in June of 1815 and the removal of Miles McDonnell and the settlers that this record should resurface in the 1820's as it did was a piece of luck. I have not been able to get a copy of this original list, though I think I know where it is. I will try again sometime soon. I have the baptismal info for Miles two children baptised at tthe settlement but want to get a photocopy of the original document or photograph. It lists a number of baptisms performed by Settlement Leader Miles McDonnell and includes the names of a number of children born to the original Red River Settlers from this period including settler Donald Livingstone and his wife Ann McGillverary. Donald and Ann as I mentioned were on the boat with Ann. Donald Livingston was the boatbuilder whom I mentioned arrived at the settlement in October of 1812 with Miles, his second wife Janet and his teenage son Donald whom ended up as a labourer at the settlement. Miles was also apparently recruited as a boatbuilder but the first year focused upon being a settler. Following his departure from the settlement in 1815, Miles and family settled in Etobicoke, Upper Canada where according to Upper Canada records he folk work in his trade as a boatbuilder. In 1819 he received a grant of 100 acres in Esquesing Township in Halton County and located in the "Scotch Block". By the 1830's he is living in the village of Acton in Esquesing Township with his son Daniel Livingston a millwright and resident of the village where he employed as a cooper (barrel maker) a trade that he may have learned on the Isle of Islay with its whiskey industry.
There are a few things I dont have from the Red River records pertaining to my ancestor but I have most of them from when I was touch with the Manitoba Archives and a descendant of LIvingstones who lived at Red RIVER. I am hoping someday to locate a few more records from Lord Selkirks papers that I am aware pertain to Livingstons. I am glad that your having some success with your Red RIver colony research. Our families were a part of an interesting chapter in early Canadian history, early Manitoba history, and one which is actually quite well documented fortunately for family researchers like ourselves.
regards,
Donald
Re: John McVicar, Red River Settlement
Hi Donald,
Sorry I disappeared for a bit- I was following up on all of this info! I made a trip to Ottawa last week and spent 5 days at the Archives. I came back with lots of great info and records from the RRS, some of which may be of interest for you and others. I have copies of some letters between John McVicar, Donald Livingstone and his father Neil Livingstone, as well as some lists of settlers at varying points. The Selkirk files as you probably know are enormous, over 20000 files! If you or any one else would like copies of anything I have or suggestions of how to find out more, please feel free to get in touch.
Also while searching for the baptism of Archibald seen above, I was in contact with the Diocese of Ruperts Land and they have the original records of baptisms performed by Miles McDonell (my ancestor's wasn't on that list because his baptism was performed by William Auld, presumably because Miles Macdonell was a Catholic!). if you contact Gloria Romaniuk at 204-992-4203 she may be able to find and scan the list that they have. The original notation may also be written in the Journal of Miles McDonell as my ancestor's was, in the photo attached.
Thank you again for all your help- if it wasn't for the mentions of John McVicar in various threads I wouldn't have had a clue where to start!
Sorry I disappeared for a bit- I was following up on all of this info! I made a trip to Ottawa last week and spent 5 days at the Archives. I came back with lots of great info and records from the RRS, some of which may be of interest for you and others. I have copies of some letters between John McVicar, Donald Livingstone and his father Neil Livingstone, as well as some lists of settlers at varying points. The Selkirk files as you probably know are enormous, over 20000 files! If you or any one else would like copies of anything I have or suggestions of how to find out more, please feel free to get in touch.
Also while searching for the baptism of Archibald seen above, I was in contact with the Diocese of Ruperts Land and they have the original records of baptisms performed by Miles McDonell (my ancestor's wasn't on that list because his baptism was performed by William Auld, presumably because Miles Macdonell was a Catholic!). if you contact Gloria Romaniuk at 204-992-4203 she may be able to find and scan the list that they have. The original notation may also be written in the Journal of Miles McDonell as my ancestor's was, in the photo attached.
Thank you again for all your help- if it wasn't for the mentions of John McVicar in various threads I wouldn't have had a clue where to start!
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2780
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: John McVicar, Red River Settlement
Hi Kalliek,
Actually Settlement leader Miles McDonnell performed a number of baptisms of presbyterian scottish children of the original settlers in the early years of the settlement including my Livingston relatives, simply because Selkirk had not provided the scottish settlers with a presbyterian minister when the settlement was first settled and McDonnell was deemed qualified to perform baptisms as the head of the Red RIver Settlement. He was of scottish ancestry and as you said of the Roman Catholic faith. My great-great grandmother Nancy Livingston (Mrs John Clink) was baptised by Red River Colony leader Miles McDonnell in 1813 and her brother HUgh Livingston in 1814. I was hoping to get a photocopy of the original document but I dont know if that is possible. I contacted someone in the past but they did not apparently know where the original document was. I will take up your suggestion and try again. My cousin actually sent me the baptismal info some years ago, so I have the dates from 1813 and 1814 on file somewhere but I am hoping that the orginal document could be photocopied.
Glad to hear that you have been able to locate the baptismal info on your Archibald McVicar that was born at the Red River Colony. Its great that as you state the old forum posting on Livingstons and MCVicars at Lord Selkirks Red RIver Colony in the early 1800's was of help to you in the search for info on your ancestor.
regards,
Donald
Actually Settlement leader Miles McDonnell performed a number of baptisms of presbyterian scottish children of the original settlers in the early years of the settlement including my Livingston relatives, simply because Selkirk had not provided the scottish settlers with a presbyterian minister when the settlement was first settled and McDonnell was deemed qualified to perform baptisms as the head of the Red RIver Settlement. He was of scottish ancestry and as you said of the Roman Catholic faith. My great-great grandmother Nancy Livingston (Mrs John Clink) was baptised by Red River Colony leader Miles McDonnell in 1813 and her brother HUgh Livingston in 1814. I was hoping to get a photocopy of the original document but I dont know if that is possible. I contacted someone in the past but they did not apparently know where the original document was. I will take up your suggestion and try again. My cousin actually sent me the baptismal info some years ago, so I have the dates from 1813 and 1814 on file somewhere but I am hoping that the orginal document could be photocopied.
Glad to hear that you have been able to locate the baptismal info on your Archibald McVicar that was born at the Red River Colony. Its great that as you state the old forum posting on Livingstons and MCVicars at Lord Selkirks Red RIver Colony in the early 1800's was of help to you in the search for info on your ancestor.
regards,
Donald
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2780
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: John McVicar, Red River Settlement
Hi Calliek,
The 1815 correspondence that survives between Duncan Cameron of the North West Company and my ancestor's kinsman Donald Livingston of the Red River Settlement is most interesting. Cameron was a smooth and diabolical manipulator regarding Lord Selkirk's Red RIver Settlers whom he wanted to remove through friendly persuation and if that did not work by force of arms. I thought you should know that Donald Livingston was forced off the Red River Settlement in the SUmmer of 1815, by Cameron and his men but unlike my ancestor Miles Livingston who left for Upper Canada, Donald Livingston returned shortly after the settlement was destroyed by the North West COmpany and Donald settler and boatbuilder was made a constable for the Red RIver Colony in 1817 by Lord Selkirk. A few years later having written to his father Neil and his brothers in Argyll Scotland they joined Donald by 1819 at the Red RIver Colony. Some of this Livingston family correspondence regarding settlling at Red RIver remarkably survives today. It is interesting to read these letters written by kin of my LIvingston ancestor MIles Livingston and it is clear that they were able to read and write ENglish in addition to being fluent in gaelic. Some of their spelling and use of certain words however is quite unusual and interesting to read. I quite enjoyed reading the Livingston family correspondence from the early 1800's regarding settlement at Lord Selkirks Red RIver Colony. A number of documents pertainin to the Red River COlony including that of LOrd Selkirk papers mention Livingstons and it is was interesting to learn that my ancestor Miles Livingston, his son Donald and his relative Donald Livingston were a part of early Manitoba, Canada history however small.
regards,
Donald
The 1815 correspondence that survives between Duncan Cameron of the North West Company and my ancestor's kinsman Donald Livingston of the Red River Settlement is most interesting. Cameron was a smooth and diabolical manipulator regarding Lord Selkirk's Red RIver Settlers whom he wanted to remove through friendly persuation and if that did not work by force of arms. I thought you should know that Donald Livingston was forced off the Red River Settlement in the SUmmer of 1815, by Cameron and his men but unlike my ancestor Miles Livingston who left for Upper Canada, Donald Livingston returned shortly after the settlement was destroyed by the North West COmpany and Donald settler and boatbuilder was made a constable for the Red RIver Colony in 1817 by Lord Selkirk. A few years later having written to his father Neil and his brothers in Argyll Scotland they joined Donald by 1819 at the Red RIver Colony. Some of this Livingston family correspondence regarding settlling at Red RIver remarkably survives today. It is interesting to read these letters written by kin of my LIvingston ancestor MIles Livingston and it is clear that they were able to read and write ENglish in addition to being fluent in gaelic. Some of their spelling and use of certain words however is quite unusual and interesting to read. I quite enjoyed reading the Livingston family correspondence from the early 1800's regarding settlement at Lord Selkirks Red RIver Colony. A number of documents pertainin to the Red River COlony including that of LOrd Selkirk papers mention Livingstons and it is was interesting to learn that my ancestor Miles Livingston, his son Donald and his relative Donald Livingston were a part of early Manitoba, Canada history however small.
regards,
Donald