Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

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Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2726
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi rehartman,

Glad to hear you made the trek to connect with the Kilniver Parish of your highland Argyllshire Maclea-Livingstone ancestors. There is so much amazing scenery in Western Argyllshire and a lot of history. My own Maclea Livingstone ancestors and their Livingstone kin were originally located nearby along the Morvern coast in Morvern Parish not far from our Clan Chief's ancestral home at Bachuil on the Island of Lismore.

Thought you might be interested. The actual original Kilniver Parish Church of Scotland records only record information on some of the children of a Donald Livingstone and Mary McCulloch unfortunately and is obviously incomplete for some reason for this family. I did think they were all birth entries but when I checked the original parish book pages one was listed under Baptisms so I assume it is actually a baptism and have written it down as such. But I think we can still assume she was born around 1801. Here are the original surviving entries for Donald and Mary's children I could locate as recorded in the first decade of the 1800's by the Church of Scotland Parish minister:

Baptisms Kilninver Parish
2 May 1801
Donald Livingstone Laganmore and his spouse Mary McCulloch had born to them their daughter Sarah

Births Kilninver Parish
20th July 1803
Donald Livingstone Laganmore and his spouse Mary McCulloch had born to them their son John

6th September 1805
Donald Livingstone Laganmore and his spouse Mary McCuloch had born to them their son Dugald

There is one perplexing problem that I am most recently puzzled about regarding your Sarah (Livingston) Fotheringham's 1879 record. Sarah's daughter the informant on her 1879 Glasgow death record states that Sarah's parents were a Daniel Livingston and oddly enough a Mary Carmichael rather than McCulloch. At this point I am not sure if that is an error or what to make of it. I then checked for any information in the birth or marriage records of a Daniel Livingston and Mary Carmichael and could not find any to confirm or deny their existence. At least so far. I do know that if you do a birth record search for the first decade of the 1800's the only Sarah Livingstone recorded is that of a Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch but one has to also realize also that that Sarah Livingstone baptized by 1801 and according to her death record Sarah (Livingston) Fotheringham was aged 72 when died in 1879 which would a birth date closer to if correct to around 1807. Sarah Fotheringham was definitely a Sarah Livingston but was she the daughter of a Daniel Livingston and Mary Carmichael as her daughter stated in Sarah's death record or the only Sarah Livingston listed in the Argyll records born in the first decade of the 1800's born to Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch your Sarah Fotheringham's parents and the daughter somehow got confused at the time of her Mother's death in 1879. That is the problem I am struggling with at the moment. Oh here is the 1879 death for your ancestor Sarah Fotheringham with the problem mentioned.

Deaths in the District of Camlaclue Burgh of Glasgow
Name and Surname
Sarah Fotheringham widows of William Fotheringham Cotton Weaver and hand loom
When and Where died?
July 14, 1879
37 Soho Street Glasgow
age 72 years
Name of Father
Daniel Livingston Mason and Journeyman
deceased
Maiden name of Mother
Mary Carmichael (I am now thinking that the person that recorded this famiy info got mixed up and put down "Camichael instead McCulloch". It must be a mistake in my opinion given all the other info that is out there that seems to challenge the notion of a Carmichael being Sarah Fotheringham's mother's maiden name.

Cause of Death
Bronchitis 1 year
Informant
Mary Hillhouse
daughter


However!!!! As your mentioned the 1851 Census of a Sarah Fotheringham born abt. 1801 states she was born in a "Killnesever, Arglesh at least according to whoever transcribed the info Ancestry.com has in it's record. Now it is obvious a spelling error but the spelling error is clearly awfully close to Kilninver, Argyll that the Sarah Fotheringham at least in the 1851 Census residing at Airdrie, Monkland in the County of Lanarkshire is definitely the Sarah Livingston born in the early 1800's in Kilinver Parish. This 1851 Sarah Fotheringham link in the 1851 Census to roots in Kilniver Parish, Argyll is too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence at all. This must be the daughter of Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch. Now I just hope that the Daniel Livingston and May Carmichael mentioned in a Sarah Fotherham 1879 death record did not actually exist and somehow reside in Kilninver parish at the same time as Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch. I have not found any proof of there existence in the Church of Scotland records so that could be a very good thing.

In terms of the Donald/Daniel Livingston question it should be noted that in the records of Livingstons of Argyllshire origin with the name Donald or Daniel i have come some records were obviously both names are oddly enough used by the same person and seemed to be among the Scots were considered to be basically the same name. I come across this a few times including in one record of my Livingstone Argyll kin so I am overly concerned about the Donald and Daniel thing more about being 100 certain who Sarah's parents were if possible. I think the 1851 Census that you mentioned i looked over is very close to kilninver Parish. I hope at some point to look at the original census page and see if the original transcription by the 1851 census was as bad as what I assume was an ancestry.com transcription of Killnesever, Arglesh and try to determine the original source of that transcription mess. Glad at least it is so obviously Kilninver parish Argyll that I quite comfortable 1851 Sarah Fotheringham was born in Kininver parish which is good news for helping to sort out that serious problem with the 1879 Sarah Fotheringham death record information on Sarah's parents. I may not be able to say with 100 percent certainty there was no Daniel Livingston and Mary Carmichael residing in Kilninver Parish in the early 1800's. All I can say is that is no record of them whereas we know from the records that a Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch had a daughter Sarah baptized in 1801. Cant explain why Sarah Fotheringham's death records says age 72 years at the time of her death in 1879 but I found age mistakes all the time in death records in Scotland which I find quite surprising. I mean don't their children now how old they are and when they are born? Anyways can't quite figure that what out as well.

My question at the moment to you is which son or daughter of Sarah Fotheringham born in Scotland is your ancestor and did you find a birth or baptism record information for them that might be of some help to my research.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2726
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi rehartman,

There are a few birth records of the children of William Fotheringham and Sarah Livingston that I can't find in an actual search of the original Church of Scotland birth records. I only found one in particular in the search of the original Church of Scotland records from the 1840's and it was most interesting in that is a daughter Mary Fotheringham daughter of William Fotheringham from Airdrie (Monkland,Lanarkshire) and his spouse ]Marion Livingston born in what looks like the 22 of Dec. 1844 and baptized 12th January 1845. I am very certain this Marion Livingston is your ancestor Sarah Livingston native of Kilniver Argyll who married William Fotheringham in July 1838 in Airdrie, Monkland, Lanarkshire
The Whats in a name site states that some Scots considered the name Sarah as an anglicized equivalent of Marion so it seems Marion Livingston and Sarah Livingston of Airdrie are the same person and location of the birth of Mary in Airdrie, Monkland, Lanarkshire leaves little doubt of that I think.

Located the original marriage entry book page which records the marriage of William Fotheringham and Sarah Livingston which took according to very brief info in July of 1838 in Airdrie, Monkland, Lanarkshire but not apparently including the day in which the marriage took place. It just states William Fotheringham and Sarah Livingston were

Here are the birth records of the children of William Fotheringham and Sarah Livingston of Airdrie, Monkland, Lanarkshire I was able to locate sourced from the original Church of Scotland Parish book of births and baptisms.

1. Daniel Livingstone Fotheringham son of William Fotheringham labourer and Sarah Livingstone was born 1st of April 1839 Airdrie, New Monkland, Lanarkshire
baptized 14th April 1839

2. Mary Fotheringham daughter of William Fotheringham from Airdrie and his spouse Marion Livingston was born 22th (December) 1844 and baptized 12th January 1845 (This appears to be the Mary Fotheringham who later married James Hillhouse and was the family informant Mary Hillhouse on Sarah (Livingston) Fotheringham's 1879 death record.)
I checked several times but came up with only two birth records for the children of William Fotheringham and Sarah Livingston, but the Daniel Livingstone Fotheringham find I think is very useful and of course further verifies the Livingston family connection of the Fotheringham's and significantly includes Daniel's middle name which I find you don't often get with Scottish birth records I have worked with over the years.

The later marriage records of some of the children of William Fotheringham and Sarah Livingston I have located today offer further conclusive evidence that William Fotheringham of Airdrie was married to Sarah Livingston. I found 2 marriage records so far of their children with some difficulty and both record the parents of the bride as being that of William Fotheringham and Sarah Livingston which delighted me no end. I was hoping there would be no more problems or challenges like yesterday. Here are the two marriage records I located today of the children of William Fotheringham and Sarah Livingston:

Married May 9, 1855 District of Airdrie (New Monkland, Lanark, Scotland) Established Church of Scotland
Ann Fotheringham age 15
Parents: William Fotheringham and Sarah Livenstan (Livingston)
Groom: Robert Tarley 26 Miner Newry, County Argmagh, Ireland
Witnesses: Daniel Livingston, James McCallum. (I am assuming this was a Daniel Livingston as it is written in this original marriage record and not actually Ann's older brother Daniel Livingstone Fotheringham.)

Marriages in District of Bridgeton in the Burgh of Glasgow
Church of Scotland
November 22, 1864
37 Soho Street, Glasgow
Mary Fotheringham age 19 Factory Worker (Mary's approximate birth date from age here works well with her December 1844 birth record I located and mentioned in a previous paragraph)
37 Soho St. Glasgow
Parents: William Fotheringham Cotton Weaver and Sarah Livingston
Spouse: James Hillhouse age 21 Potters Labourer 37 Soho Street Glasgow

Some of this info you are probably already familiar with but I thought I would take a look and see for myself what I could piece together from the original records and see if something new might be discovered which might be of further help to your research. Hope this was of some help to your Livingston family research. Argyllshire Maclea Livingstones that resided in 19th and 18th century Scotland are actually my area of expertise although I have researched a number of "other" unrelated Livingston families of Scottish origin not connected to the highland Western Argyllshire Maclea Livingstons.

regards

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2726
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Alex,

Based on the info you supplied about Mary Livingston Naismith and from what rehartman stated and some additional info I located in the Scottish records I have updated with some additional information which I further verified in the original available Scottish records I checked recently of family of Donald (Daniel) Livingston and Mary McCulloch of Kilniver Parish, Argyll and I agree with you it looks like Mary Naismith b. 1800 in Kilninver Parish, Argyll according to her 1871 Census info recorded at Cambusnethan Parish, Lanarkshire is an elder child of Donald (Daniel) Livingston and Mary McCulloch of Kilniver Parish, Argyll as you have indicated.

Known Children of Donald (Daniel) Livingston and Mary McCulloch of Kilninver Parish, Argyll
1. Mary Livingston b. abt. 1800 Kilninver Parish, Argyll d. 1877 m. 1824 Robert Naismith

2. Sarah Livingston b. 1801 Kilninver Parish, Argyll d. July 14, 1879 Glasgow Lanarkshire m. July 1838 Airdrie, Monkland, Lanarkshire William Fotheringham

3.John Livingston b. 20th July 1803 Kilninver Parish, Argyll

4. Dugald Livingston b. 6th Sept. 1805 Kilninver Parish Argyll m. April 26, 1831 Kilniver Parish, Argyll Catherine McCallum

Dugald Livingston and his wife Catharine are recorded as residing in Kilninver Parish in the 1841 Census with their children.
1841 Scottish Census
Kilninver Parish, Argyll
Dugald Livingston b. abt. 1806 agricultural laborer
Catharine Livingston b. abt. 1806
John Livingston b. abt. 1832
Mary Livingston b. abt. 1839
Christina Livingston 9 months

regards,

Donald
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