Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

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alex leach
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Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:52 pm

Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by alex leach »

Sorry about this but I was wondering if anyone could help as Im new to the board?

My relation is a Mary Livingstone born (no cert) three census's state 1800 in Killmiver, Bilmiver and Kilniver, her death cert states parents as Daniel Livingstone and Mary Mc Cullock. By the time of her marriage in 1824 she was living in Hamilton, Lanarkshire, I know of her life after 1824 but does anybody have information on people and events before ( I am sure her father was Daniel, not Donald or David because his first grand son was called Daniel as with Scottish naming patterns)

Family gossip says "we were /are a cousin of Dr David Livingstone b 1813" looking at my limited family tree of Dr David I cannot see a Daniel anywhere, does anybody know if a Daniel was born to Dr David's uncles Richard, John, Charles or did his grandfather Neil b 1746 have a brother called Daniel

Mary Livingstone b 1800 married a Robert Naismith in 1924, they had a daughter Janet b 1834, she married a Daniel Livindstone b 1844 to a John Livingstone and a Mary McCullock in Kilniver, were these kissing cousins I would be greatful if any body had any information on John Livingstone that might lead me back a generation

Thanks for all your help.
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Kyle MacLea
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Location: New Hampshire, USA
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Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by Kyle MacLea »

Hi Alex,

Our clan historian, Donald, can fill you in on the Dr Livingstone connection--suffice it to say that many families have such histories and due to limited data, we can't connect the Doctor's family through documentation to most other lines. We do have a DNA test from his line though so if you have Livingstone male relatives they could be tested to compare, though!

Is your "leach" family a different line? Where do they come from? There is some connection between McLea and Leitch and similar names in some locales, too!

Kyle=
Kyle S. MacLea
Clan Society Life Member; DNA Project Co-Admin
New Hampshire, USA
kyle -dot- maclea -at- gmail -dot- com
Jill Richmond
Posts: 165
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:10 pm
Location: Galloway, S.W Scotland

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by Jill Richmond »

Hello Alex,

Welcome to our forum. I think that the parish where your ancestor, Mary Livingstone, was born would be Kilninver, which is about 7 miles south of Oban. I see from my lists that there are birth entries in Kilninver OPR for 1758-1819. Unfortunately not all births were registered, and Mary could well be one of these.

In Ancestral Search just next to your entry you will find 'New Member - My Livingstone Line'. Mary Lou's forebears also came from Kilninver parish, and it seems possible that you might be connected.

Also in this entry you will find that Donald Clink has written about possible connections to Dr. David Livingstone; and a photo of John Livingstone, David Livingstone's younger brother, appears in the Gallery on this website. An awful lot of Livingston(e)s have family stories about being related to the famous Doctor - mine included! Although I do not think,in my case, that it is so.

Regards,

Jill
Jill Richmond
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Alex,

Welcome to our forum.

I will see if I can provide any help to your Livingston research efforts regarding Mary and her family.

According to Dr. Livingston's brother John Livingstone (1811-1899) in a letter written to a Canadian historian McLean Sinclair in 1891, his Uncles were John, Charles, Donald and Duncan. All of the Uncles served either in the British Navy or Army during the Napoleonic Wars according to both Dr. Lvingstone and biographer William Garden Blaikie. Charles is known to have served with the Navy and did not survive the War. As for the others there is some speculation as whether or not they survived the war and no detailed accounts of what happened to them by Dr. Livingstone's family. Most of the detailed family tree info done by Dr. Livingstone's great-grandson Dr. David Livingstone Wilson focused on the descendants of Neil Livingstone b.1788 the father of Dr. Livingstone. Much of the other info regarding descendants of Dr. Livingstone's Uncles is somewhat speculative as there just is not alot of definite and detailed info on them left to us by either Dr Livingstone or Dr. Livingstone's family. It is not known who the brothers of Dr. Livingstone's grandfather Neil Livingston b. abt. 1746? were as this also not recorded by the family.

There is a bit of a brick wall one faces here as there is no census record prior to 1841 to help in the effort to trace Mary Livingston's history in Hamilton Parish, Lanarkshire or her prior origins in Argyllshire in the highlands which is indicated by the 1851 Census information on her. I was not able to locate in the records a Mary Livingston or Livingstone born to a Daniel Livingston or Livingstone and Mary McCullock in the Argyllshire or other Scottish County Records. There were a number of Livingston families residing in Hamilton Parish, Lanarkshire in the early 1800's including Dr. Livingstone's parents Neil Livingston b.1788 and Agnes Hunter but there is regretably no way that I can definitely connectly your ancestor Mary Naismith or smyth to a specific family that lived in Hamilton Parish or to Dr. Livingstone's family. The Montieth family established a Cotton mill in Blantyre and Dr. Livingstone's grandfather Neil Livingstone and subsequently other family members found work there. I found out that other Livingston family members also appear to have worked for the Monteiths but how they were related to Dr. Livingstone's grandfather or his father who also worked for the Monteiths for a time before eventually becoming a tea salesman. Dr. Livingstone's father and family lived at Blantyre for many years and that is where Dr. Livingstone was born in 1813. They later switched churches and attended one in Hamilton and by the late 1830's were living in Hamilton Parish. Dr. Livingstone's parents are in fact buried in Hamilton Parish but the Livingstone museum is in Blantyre where Dr. Livingstone lived as a child.

regards,

Donald
alex leach
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Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:52 pm

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by alex leach »

Hi Donald
thanks for the reply, finding a link to Dr David is not priority although it was the question that started my family tree in 1994. You say Dr David uncles John, Charles, Duncan and Donald yet in a family tree I received from the Livingstone Centre at Blantyre many, many years ago a *Wilson" one, I think, there is no Donald or Duncan but a Richard with a question mark b 1775
My main aim in writting to you was to try and find some brothers or sisters to Mary, did she move by herself or did the family move, was it for work or "the Clearances", The name Daniel is hard to find around the Mull area but seems very common in the Glasgow area even two in Cambletown born in 1770's. Do you know who owned the land around Kilninver around 1800. if I wrote to their archives dept they might be able to say if Daniel and family werw Tenant's
THanks
Alex Leach
Canadian Livingstone wrote: I will see if I can provide any help to your Livingston research efforts regarding Mary and her family.

First of all according to Dr. Livingston's brother John Livingstone (1811-1899) in a letter written to a Canadian historian McLean Sinclair in 1891, his Uncles were John, Charles, Donald and Duncan. All of the Uncles served either in the British Navy or Army during the Napoleonic Wars according to both Dr. Lvingstone and biographer William Garden Blaikie. Charles is known to have served with the Navy and did not survive the War. As for the others there is some speculation as whether or not they survived the war and no detailed accounts of what happened to them by Dr. Livingstone's family. Most of the detailed family tree info done by Dr. Livingstone's great-grandson Dr. David Livingstone Wilson focused on the descendants of Neil Livingstone b.1788 the father of Dr. Livingstone. Much of the other info regarding descendants of Dr. Livingstone's Uncles is somewhat speculative as there just is not alot of definite and detailed info on them left to us by either Dr Livingstone or Dr. Livingstone's family. It is not known who the brothers of Dr. Livingstone's grandfather Neil Livingston b. abt. 1746? were as this also not recorded by the family.

There is a bit of a brick wall one faces here as there is no census record prior to 1841 to help in the effort to trace Mary Livingston's history in Hamilton Parish, Lanarkshire or her prior origins in Argyllshire in the highlands which is indicated by the 1851 Census information on her. I was not able to locate in the records a Mary Livingston or Livingstone born to a Daniel Livingston or Livingstone and Mary McCullock in the Argyllshire or other Scottish County Records. There were a number of Livingston families residing in Hamilton Parish, Lanarkshire in the early 1800's including Dr. Livingstone's parents Neil Livingston b.1788 and Agnes Hunter but there is regretably no way that I can definitely connectly your ancestor Mary Naismith or smyth to a specific family that lived in Hamilton Parish or to Dr. Livingstone's family. The Montieth family established a Cotton mill in Blantyre and Dr. Livingstone's grandfather Neil Livingstone and subsequently other family members found work there. I found out that other Livingston family members also appear to have worked for the Monteiths but how they were related to Dr. Livingstone's grandfather or his father who also worked for the Monteiths for a time before eventually becoming a tea salesman. Dr. Livingstone's father and family lived at Blantyre for many years and that is where Dr. Livingstone was born in 1813. They later switched churches and attended one in Hamilton and by the late 1830's were living in Hamilton Parish. Dr. Livingstone's parents are in fact buried in Hamilton Parish but the Livingstone museum is in Blantyre where Dr. Livingstone lived as a child.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

HI Alex,

Dr. David Livingtone Wilson regretably passed away in March of 2010. His grandmother was Anna Livingstone the youngest daughter of Dr. David Livingstone. The family chart that I have was produced by Dr. Wilson in 1980's and was given to me by a cousin of Dr. Wilson's in Canada. There is no mention of a Richard Livingston in this document. I am not sure how they came up with a Richard Livingston b.1775. The letter written in 1891 by Dr. Livingstone's brother John Livingstone 1811-1899 to historian Maclean Sinclair states that his grandfather was Neil Livingstone who was married to Mary Morrison and his Uncles were John, Charles, Donald and Duncan. There was a lack of information regarding the Uncles and Dr. Wilson was apparently did not have info on Donald and only mentions three Uncles John, Charles and Duncan. I will see what I can find out about Richard Livingston.

There are some surviving tenant records from the parishes of Argyllshire. I am not certain what is available in the parish where Mary was born. I is unfortunate that the information on Mary's death record regarding her parents did not lead to locating her parents in Argyllshire. In most cases we should have been able to locate them in the parish records. The Census record I saw for Mary Naismith clearly indicated as you stated that she was born in highland Argyllshire. I tryed to find Daniel Livingston and his wife elsewhere in Scotland as well as Argyllshire but no luck there either. I am afraid I am as disappointed as you about this as take some pride in trying to find lost Livingstons. I wonder if it is possible that the person who wrote up the death record of Mary's made a mistake in the information. As you have probably already noticed Daniel Livingstons are few and far between in both the Argyllshire records. Clearly there were McCullochs and Livingstons that lived in Kilniver and Kimelfort Parishes at one time or another but that doesnt help us much.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Alex,
The surviving Kilninver Parish records of births and marriages go as far back as 1758.
There is a collection of information on the Families of Kilninver and Kimelfort Parishes from 1740 to 1881 done in the 1970's by John Brown. It is not a book but a collection of records that you may be able to access through Scotland Rootsweb. I think you can get a volunteer who has access to these records to help you connected to Scotland rootsweb.
Not sure what is in this collection but it may be worth your while checking it out.

Also the Argyll and Bute Archives have an extensive collection of records including some tenant lists from parishes in the County of Argyll.
regards,

Donald
rehartman
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Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:39 pm

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by rehartman »

Hello Alex,

My ancestor was Sarah Livingstone, born in 1801 on Lagganmore Farm, Kilninver, Argyll. Her parents are shown in the parish records as Donald Livingstone and Mary McCulloch, very similar to your Mary's parents. I looked at earlier pages in the parish records and a lot of years were blank. So, maybe Sarah had an older sibling. Her younger siblings were John (b1803), Dugald (b1805), Donald (b1808), Duncan (b1810), and Janet (b1815). The farm was apparently owned by the Earl of Breadalbane, so tenet records my exist. Sarah married William Fotheringham in 1838 in New Monkland. After Sarah died in 1879 the family moved out to Hamilton.

My notes indicate that in Gaelic the name Sarah can also be Marion.
Canadian Livingstone
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society Forum

Talking a second look at Alex's earlier inquiries, I suspect that Mary Livingston that Alex mentioned born in 1800 is a daughter perhaps the eldest born of Donald Livingstone and Mary McCulloch of Kilninver Parish, Argyll that the Church of Scotland minister did not record in the Kilninver Parish records. I come across quite a few births that are obviously not recorded and entered in the old Argyllshire parish books from time to time.There does not seem to be a "Daniel Livingstone or Livingston and Mary Mccullock" recorded in the Scottish Parish birth or marriage records. I think the person who provided Mary's family information at the time of her death years later was likely responsible for that variation. Mccullock is this particular case is likely a spelling variation of McCulloch and among Scottish family records in Scotland and in North America it is not uncommon for a Donald to be sometimes referred to a "Daniel". Also doing my own Scottish family research over the years I have noticed Jane can be Jean and Janet can be Jessie.

While researching the famous Donald Livingstone of Savary, Morvern, Argyllshire 1728-1816 who rescued the Appin Regiment banner from the battle field of Culloden in 1746 and returned it to the Appin Stuarts in Argyllshire, I noticed in his children's death records their mother was referred to both as Jane and Jean Stewart and I seen that in one of mother's Scottish relatives. And doing my father's Morvern Argyllshire Livingston ancestor I noticed that his wife in their 1812 marriage record was referred to as Janet Livingston and in a list of passengers of a ship upon arrival for settlement in British North America simply a "Jessie Livingston'. I later learned that Jessie Livingston was for sure Janet Livingston my Livingston ancestor's wife who was known from later colony records to have accompanied my Livingston ancestor to British North America aboard that ship. I have a list that I got one time when I took a genealogy course long ago that listed all the interesting forename variations to watch out for in the old records. Anyways I think that might explain why Alex noticed that someone years later in a death record in Scotland had recorded Mary's parent's as Daniel Livingstone and Mary Mccullock rather than Donald Livingston and Mary McCulloch.

Lagganmore you mentioned where Sarah's parents, Donald Livingstone and Mary McCulloch lived is a little bit east of the village of Kilninver which is south of Oban, Argyllshire. Her father Donald Livingston I noticed was a weaver in Lagganmore.

I was wondering if the parents of your ancestor Donald Livingston father of Sarah Livingston might be Duncan Livingston and Isabel Clerk They had as son Donald Livingston born 28/09/1761 in Kilniver Parish Parents: Duncan Livingston and Isabel Clerk.

The Kilniver Parish records include the birth info of son John (1759), Donald (1761), Alexander (1764), Isabel (1769) Duncan (1772) Parents: Duncan Livingston and Isabel Clerk.


regards,

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Historian
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
rehartman
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:39 pm

Re: Mary Livingstone b1800 Information

Post by rehartman »

I visited Lagganmore Farm two years ago on the front end of a cruise out of Southampton. I hired a driver to take us from Glasgow to the farm and back. We had a pleasant lunch in Oban. We had a little problem finding the turn off for the road which goes along the Euchar River. The road on the farm loops around the back and was surprised to find the out buildings in the back are occupied cottages. We talked to one of the renters and she did not know anything about its history. The current owners also do not have any of the history and the manor house is used like an Air BnB. It was owned by the Earl of Breadalbane until about 1920, then there were major renovations occurred. The 1855 Valuation Records shows one of the tenants was a McIntyre. Recently, it has come out that it is the site of the "Barn of Bones," from the War of the Three Kingdoms. The barn was located near the southwest corner of the main property, near the road.
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