I am new to the forum, and looking to research my grandmother's side of the family. My gran was named Elizabeth Livingstone, and lived in Irvine, Ayrshire, from 1930 to 1989. I believe that her father was called John Livingstone, and that he was born around the turn of the twentieth century, possibly 1904. He may have been born in Blantyre, Lanarkshire, or at the very least had roots there. There was a story in the family, according to my grandfather, that there was some sort of relation to explorer and missionary Dr. David Livingstone, but this seems to be a recurring theme in several of the forum posts, so I'm not sure how accurate that is. Perhaps there were many Livingstone families in that area.
And unfortunately, that's all I have to go on. If anyone's family tree contains an Elizabeth Livingstone of Irvine born in 1930, a John Livingstone of Blantyre born around 1904, or might have information related to the subject, then I would love to hear from you! Thanks again for letting me join the forum!
Kind Regards, Arran
John Livingstone (1904?)
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2780
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: John Livingstone (1904?)
Hi ArranM.
Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum. THere sounds like there is quite alot you dont know regarding your Grandmother and her Livingston family line so you might want to start working on establishing when your grandmother was born and obtaining a birth record which will give you a date of birth, confirm the name of the father and mother's maiden name and where they were residing at the time of the birth. Once you have the name of the parents John and whoever then you want to locate a marriage record as that will give you their age at the time of marriage and even better usually the marriage document records the name of the parents of the groom and bride, so you would be able to establish who John Livingston's parents (your great-great grandparents were).
I'm not aware of a connection between the old Blantyre, Lanarkshire Livingston families and Livingstons that resided in Ayrshire in early 20th century so I cant help you there. My research is generally limited to Livingstons whose families resided in Scotland before the year 1900 or thereabouts. In any event I think you need to acquire your grandmother's scottish birth record and her parents marriage record will take you right back to your great-great Livingston grandparents. If we have the information from these two documents we may be able to take you ancestral line back a few generations more but its critical that you have these two documents to help establish the names of both your great grandparents and great-great grandparents Livingston and where they lived if possible would also be helpful. So to start the ball rolling in an organized process I would suggest you make the effort to acquire a copy of your grandmother maiden name Livingston's Scottish birth record. To do that you at least need to know what year your grandmother was born in Scotland and knowing where would be helpful as well. Perhaps one of your cousins or an Aunt or Uncle has some information regarding the year your grandmother was born. If I understand correctly you dont have much information on your Livingston family line so if would really be helpful to you if you concentrate on acquiring a copy of your grandmother's scottish birth record and once you learn from that document the name of both parents then make an effort to locate your great-grandparent Livingston's marriage record. With the family information derived from just those two documents you can as I mentioned earlier establish who your Livingston great-great grandparents were.
Hope this helps to get you on the right track regarding your Livingston genealogy project.
regards,
Donald
Welcome to the Clan Maclea Livingstone Forum. THere sounds like there is quite alot you dont know regarding your Grandmother and her Livingston family line so you might want to start working on establishing when your grandmother was born and obtaining a birth record which will give you a date of birth, confirm the name of the father and mother's maiden name and where they were residing at the time of the birth. Once you have the name of the parents John and whoever then you want to locate a marriage record as that will give you their age at the time of marriage and even better usually the marriage document records the name of the parents of the groom and bride, so you would be able to establish who John Livingston's parents (your great-great grandparents were).
I'm not aware of a connection between the old Blantyre, Lanarkshire Livingston families and Livingstons that resided in Ayrshire in early 20th century so I cant help you there. My research is generally limited to Livingstons whose families resided in Scotland before the year 1900 or thereabouts. In any event I think you need to acquire your grandmother's scottish birth record and her parents marriage record will take you right back to your great-great Livingston grandparents. If we have the information from these two documents we may be able to take you ancestral line back a few generations more but its critical that you have these two documents to help establish the names of both your great grandparents and great-great grandparents Livingston and where they lived if possible would also be helpful. So to start the ball rolling in an organized process I would suggest you make the effort to acquire a copy of your grandmother maiden name Livingston's Scottish birth record. To do that you at least need to know what year your grandmother was born in Scotland and knowing where would be helpful as well. Perhaps one of your cousins or an Aunt or Uncle has some information regarding the year your grandmother was born. If I understand correctly you dont have much information on your Livingston family line so if would really be helpful to you if you concentrate on acquiring a copy of your grandmother's scottish birth record and once you learn from that document the name of both parents then make an effort to locate your great-grandparent Livingston's marriage record. With the family information derived from just those two documents you can as I mentioned earlier establish who your Livingston great-great grandparents were.
Hope this helps to get you on the right track regarding your Livingston genealogy project.
regards,
Donald
Re: John Livingstone (1904?)
Hi Donald,
Thanks for the reply! Yeah there is certainly a lot which I don't know. Unfortunately, I have already spoken to my grandfather and uncle about this, so I don't think I can acquire any more information from them. I do however already know when and where my grandmother was born. I probably wasn't clear enough in my original post, when I said that she lived in Irvine from 1930 to 1989, I meant that she was born in 1930, in Irvine. So I know that much. I am also pretty sure that her father was called John Livingstone, and her mother was called Jessie Hay. The next step would therefore be to locate my great-grandparents marriage record. I am unlikely to be able to do this for free, which was why I was hoping that someone in the Clan Livingstone community might have more information. But if no one has any information, then as you say, that will be what I'll try to do next.
Out of interest, as I am very new to this, what is the best way to research marriage certificates and the likes? I went to a register ofice in Glasgow a couple of months ago and was able to add about 80 individuals to my family tree, but was stopped by the lack of information included in the old parish records. Is there a better way to conduct research than this?
Regards, Arran
Thanks for the reply! Yeah there is certainly a lot which I don't know. Unfortunately, I have already spoken to my grandfather and uncle about this, so I don't think I can acquire any more information from them. I do however already know when and where my grandmother was born. I probably wasn't clear enough in my original post, when I said that she lived in Irvine from 1930 to 1989, I meant that she was born in 1930, in Irvine. So I know that much. I am also pretty sure that her father was called John Livingstone, and her mother was called Jessie Hay. The next step would therefore be to locate my great-grandparents marriage record. I am unlikely to be able to do this for free, which was why I was hoping that someone in the Clan Livingstone community might have more information. But if no one has any information, then as you say, that will be what I'll try to do next.
Out of interest, as I am very new to this, what is the best way to research marriage certificates and the likes? I went to a register ofice in Glasgow a couple of months ago and was able to add about 80 individuals to my family tree, but was stopped by the lack of information included in the old parish records. Is there a better way to conduct research than this?
Regards, Arran
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jmlivingstone
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm
Re: John Livingstone (1904?)
Arran,
This looks like who you are looking for;
29 June 1923, marriage of John Rodger Livingstone, coal miner, to Jessie Hay, occ. fireclay worker, married at Dreghorn, Ayrshire.
Johns parents, F. Alexander, occ. pitheadman, M. Agnes Rodgers.
Jessies parents, F. Andrew Hay, coal miner, M. Agnes Scott.
John
This looks like who you are looking for;
29 June 1923, marriage of John Rodger Livingstone, coal miner, to Jessie Hay, occ. fireclay worker, married at Dreghorn, Ayrshire.
Johns parents, F. Alexander, occ. pitheadman, M. Agnes Rodgers.
Jessies parents, F. Andrew Hay, coal miner, M. Agnes Scott.
John
Re: John Livingstone (1904?)
Hi John,
Thank you!! That is absolutely brilliant! That must be them.
I really need to know how you managed that though! As I said in my last post, I've carried out research at the register ofice, and have also used ancestry.co.uk, which is meant to be the largest online genealogy database in the world. How did you do it??
Thanks again,
Arran
Thank you!! That is absolutely brilliant! That must be them.
I really need to know how you managed that though! As I said in my last post, I've carried out research at the register ofice, and have also used ancestry.co.uk, which is meant to be the largest online genealogy database in the world. How did you do it??
Thanks again,
Arran
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jmlivingstone
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm
Re: John Livingstone (1904?)
Hi Arran,
It was information I found while trying to find an illusive member of my own family, I've got some more information, back to about 1832 for you, so far mostly in Ayrshire, and I think one from Wigtownshire, nothing from Blantyre as far as I remember.
I've got this filed somewhere, I'll try to get it sorted out by tonight or tomorrow, and get it on here tomorrow.
If you would like copies of the certificates I have, contact me at jmlivingstone at hotmail.co.uk,
John
It was information I found while trying to find an illusive member of my own family, I've got some more information, back to about 1832 for you, so far mostly in Ayrshire, and I think one from Wigtownshire, nothing from Blantyre as far as I remember.
I've got this filed somewhere, I'll try to get it sorted out by tonight or tomorrow, and get it on here tomorrow.
If you would like copies of the certificates I have, contact me at jmlivingstone at hotmail.co.uk,
John
Re: John Livingstone (1904?)
Thanks, that's great! I'll also e-mail you regarding the certificates.
Arran
Arran
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Canadian Livingstone
- Posts: 2780
- Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm
Re: John Livingstone (1904?)
Great work John.
That does sound like your on the right track with this Livingston family.The 1904 info had me looking in the wrong direction. John Roger Livingston was born in 1899. John Roger Livingston was born May 13 1899 Parish Of Kilmarnock, Ayrshire to Alexander Livingston and Agnes Rogers. I could not find Alex and Agnes marriage record however John's birth record states that his parents Alexander Livingston and Agnes Rogers were married December 15, 1878 in Kilmarnock, Ayrshire.
Alexander Livingston appears in the 1901 Census at Kilmaurs Parish, Ayrshire age listed 44 so born abt. 1857 according to this census in Dalry Ayrshire. His occupation is Colliery Pitman. A lot of Livingstons and their families I have found were coal miners in the lowlands. It was much preferable to starving in highland Argyllshire, although the coal dust likely shortened their life considerably. The family at this time residing at Eactons buildings Knockentiber,Kilmaurs Parish, Ayrshire. Dont know if that spelling is correct on that one. His wife Agnes was born in Steventon, Ayrshire age given 45. Children listed in 1901 census were: Alexander Jr. age 20, Margaret 19, Catharine 16, William 11, Jessie 19, and John age 1 . The Census confirms that John Livingston was born in Kilmarnock, Ayrshire.
Dont have Alexander Livingston's birth, marriage or death record so I shall see if the census records can be of any help. I cant find his birth or original marriage record though I discovered the date of marriage.
1861 Census
Dalry Parish, Ayrshire
Robert Livingston age 50 silk weaver born Dalry Parish, Ayrshire (Robert and Margaret listed as grandparents in this census)
Margaret age 50 (Margaret Brown)
David age 20 son
William age 18 son
Hugh age 13 son
Robert age 5 grandson
Alexander age 3 grandson born Dalry Parish, Ayrshire (I think this is probably the Alexander who appears in the above mentioned 1901 Census and the below mentioned census records.) Im fairly certain of that.
Robert and Margaret Livingston are recorded in the census as Grandparents. Dont know who the parents are? Checked the birth records for children of Robert Livingston and Margaret Brown and seems clear that Robert age 5 and Alexander age 3 at Dalry in the 1861 arent children of Robert Livingston and Margaret Brown so them being grandchildren makes sense. This is what the census states in any event.
Robert lived to an old age and he died April 29, 1887 age 78. His death entry records that he was the widower as previously mentioned wife Margaret Brown and he died at his residence on Sharon Street in Dalry, Ayrshire. Parents are recorded as being John Livingston hand loom weaver and Janet Allen. I noticed that Robert's brother? William Livingston was also a silk weaver, so weaving was clearly a family skill. I guess it was either that or working in a mine.
1881 Census Kilmaurs parish, Ayrshire
Alexander Livingston age 23 b. Dalry Parish, Iron stone laborer
Agnes age 25 born Stevenston, Ayrshire
Robert age 3 b. Kilmaur parish
Alexander age 6 months
1891 Census Maryhill district Barony County of Lanarkshire (Alexander lived briefly in Lanarkshire before John was born)
Alexander Livingston age 34 born Saltcoats Ayrshire
Agnes age 35 born Stevenston Ayrshire
Robert age 14
Alexander age 11
Margaret age 11
Catharine age 6
Jeanie age 4
Minnie age 3
William age 8 months (all children born in Kilmaur parish, Ayrshire)
See 2nd paragraph above for the 1901 Kilmaurs Parish census info for this family which includes John Livingston born in 1899.
John I dont see a birth or marriage record for Alexander born around 1857. If that is so then there is still hope that there was a death record issued sometime between 1901 and 1857 in Scotland which will indicate who Alexanders parents were. I am going to check the 1851 Census for Dalry Parish and see if I cant deduce anything from that, but it wont really tell me much I dont think it will tell me anything much. The 1861 census indicates Robert Livingston of Dalry Parish who was also apparently born there is his grandfather. I dont have any reason or counter information to dispute that. Too bad the parents arent with ALex in the 1861 Census. I could not find this Alex at all in the 1871 census but he may there under a different Livingston spellings or something like that. It is possible that his parents died before 1861 but that may not be the case. Will study this problem further this afternoon. In the mean time if you can figure this one out let me know. Could be difficult unless a death record for Alexander can be located.
James Livingston and Janet Barclay appear to be the first Livingston family in Dalry Parish. Their son John was born in Birnie, Ayrshire which is nearby to Dalry. I cant find any Livingston marriages in Dalry before 1771. There are Livingstons in the Ayrshire parish records beginning in the 1720`s but I have no way of linking them with the Dalry Livingstons.
Based on the census and scottish records info this is what the ancestral line looks like to me so far:
1.James Livingston m. Janet Barclay May 9,1771 in Dalry Parish, Ayrshire
2. John Livingston handloom weaver b. June 6,1777 in Kilbirnie,Ayrshire m. January 25,1800 in Dalry Parish, Ayrshire Janet Allan lived in Dalry Parish, Ayrshire
3. Robert Livingston silk weaver b. abt. March 5, 1809 in Dalry Parish, Ayrshire died April 29, 1887 Dalry, Ayrshire m. Margaret Brown May 3, 1828 in Dalry parish, Ayrshire
4. James Livingston joiner journeyman b. Sept. 9, 1832 Dalry m. Jane McCubbin Dec. 13, 1855 at Dalry Parish, Ayrshire.
5. Alexander Livingston Pit head man b. Nov. 11, 1857 Ardrossan near Dalry, Ayrshire d. Dec. 20, 1940 m. Agnes Rogers in Kilmarnock parish, Ayrshire
Dec. 15, 1876
6. John Rogers Livingston coal miner b. May 13, 1899 Kilmarnock Parish, Ayrshire m. Jessie Hay in June 29,1923 in Dreghorn, Ayrshire
7.Elizabeth Livingstone born abt. 1930 in Irvine, Ayrshire, Scotland
regards,
Donald
That does sound like your on the right track with this Livingston family.The 1904 info had me looking in the wrong direction. John Roger Livingston was born in 1899. John Roger Livingston was born May 13 1899 Parish Of Kilmarnock, Ayrshire to Alexander Livingston and Agnes Rogers. I could not find Alex and Agnes marriage record however John's birth record states that his parents Alexander Livingston and Agnes Rogers were married December 15, 1878 in Kilmarnock, Ayrshire.
Alexander Livingston appears in the 1901 Census at Kilmaurs Parish, Ayrshire age listed 44 so born abt. 1857 according to this census in Dalry Ayrshire. His occupation is Colliery Pitman. A lot of Livingstons and their families I have found were coal miners in the lowlands. It was much preferable to starving in highland Argyllshire, although the coal dust likely shortened their life considerably. The family at this time residing at Eactons buildings Knockentiber,Kilmaurs Parish, Ayrshire. Dont know if that spelling is correct on that one. His wife Agnes was born in Steventon, Ayrshire age given 45. Children listed in 1901 census were: Alexander Jr. age 20, Margaret 19, Catharine 16, William 11, Jessie 19, and John age 1 . The Census confirms that John Livingston was born in Kilmarnock, Ayrshire.
Dont have Alexander Livingston's birth, marriage or death record so I shall see if the census records can be of any help. I cant find his birth or original marriage record though I discovered the date of marriage.
1861 Census
Dalry Parish, Ayrshire
Robert Livingston age 50 silk weaver born Dalry Parish, Ayrshire (Robert and Margaret listed as grandparents in this census)
Margaret age 50 (Margaret Brown)
David age 20 son
William age 18 son
Hugh age 13 son
Robert age 5 grandson
Alexander age 3 grandson born Dalry Parish, Ayrshire (I think this is probably the Alexander who appears in the above mentioned 1901 Census and the below mentioned census records.) Im fairly certain of that.
Robert and Margaret Livingston are recorded in the census as Grandparents. Dont know who the parents are? Checked the birth records for children of Robert Livingston and Margaret Brown and seems clear that Robert age 5 and Alexander age 3 at Dalry in the 1861 arent children of Robert Livingston and Margaret Brown so them being grandchildren makes sense. This is what the census states in any event.
Robert lived to an old age and he died April 29, 1887 age 78. His death entry records that he was the widower as previously mentioned wife Margaret Brown and he died at his residence on Sharon Street in Dalry, Ayrshire. Parents are recorded as being John Livingston hand loom weaver and Janet Allen. I noticed that Robert's brother? William Livingston was also a silk weaver, so weaving was clearly a family skill. I guess it was either that or working in a mine.
1881 Census Kilmaurs parish, Ayrshire
Alexander Livingston age 23 b. Dalry Parish, Iron stone laborer
Agnes age 25 born Stevenston, Ayrshire
Robert age 3 b. Kilmaur parish
Alexander age 6 months
1891 Census Maryhill district Barony County of Lanarkshire (Alexander lived briefly in Lanarkshire before John was born)
Alexander Livingston age 34 born Saltcoats Ayrshire
Agnes age 35 born Stevenston Ayrshire
Robert age 14
Alexander age 11
Margaret age 11
Catharine age 6
Jeanie age 4
Minnie age 3
William age 8 months (all children born in Kilmaur parish, Ayrshire)
See 2nd paragraph above for the 1901 Kilmaurs Parish census info for this family which includes John Livingston born in 1899.
John I dont see a birth or marriage record for Alexander born around 1857. If that is so then there is still hope that there was a death record issued sometime between 1901 and 1857 in Scotland which will indicate who Alexanders parents were. I am going to check the 1851 Census for Dalry Parish and see if I cant deduce anything from that, but it wont really tell me much I dont think it will tell me anything much. The 1861 census indicates Robert Livingston of Dalry Parish who was also apparently born there is his grandfather. I dont have any reason or counter information to dispute that. Too bad the parents arent with ALex in the 1861 Census. I could not find this Alex at all in the 1871 census but he may there under a different Livingston spellings or something like that. It is possible that his parents died before 1861 but that may not be the case. Will study this problem further this afternoon. In the mean time if you can figure this one out let me know. Could be difficult unless a death record for Alexander can be located.
James Livingston and Janet Barclay appear to be the first Livingston family in Dalry Parish. Their son John was born in Birnie, Ayrshire which is nearby to Dalry. I cant find any Livingston marriages in Dalry before 1771. There are Livingstons in the Ayrshire parish records beginning in the 1720`s but I have no way of linking them with the Dalry Livingstons.
Based on the census and scottish records info this is what the ancestral line looks like to me so far:
1.James Livingston m. Janet Barclay May 9,1771 in Dalry Parish, Ayrshire
2. John Livingston handloom weaver b. June 6,1777 in Kilbirnie,Ayrshire m. January 25,1800 in Dalry Parish, Ayrshire Janet Allan lived in Dalry Parish, Ayrshire
3. Robert Livingston silk weaver b. abt. March 5, 1809 in Dalry Parish, Ayrshire died April 29, 1887 Dalry, Ayrshire m. Margaret Brown May 3, 1828 in Dalry parish, Ayrshire
4. James Livingston joiner journeyman b. Sept. 9, 1832 Dalry m. Jane McCubbin Dec. 13, 1855 at Dalry Parish, Ayrshire.
5. Alexander Livingston Pit head man b. Nov. 11, 1857 Ardrossan near Dalry, Ayrshire d. Dec. 20, 1940 m. Agnes Rogers in Kilmarnock parish, Ayrshire
Dec. 15, 1876
6. John Rogers Livingston coal miner b. May 13, 1899 Kilmarnock Parish, Ayrshire m. Jessie Hay in June 29,1923 in Dreghorn, Ayrshire
7.Elizabeth Livingstone born abt. 1930 in Irvine, Ayrshire, Scotland
regards,
Donald
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jmlivingstone
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm
Re: John Livingstone (1904?)
Hi Donald,
I've already sent Arran the certs., but I'll post this just in case it's of use to someone else in the future;
1. Death of Alexander, 20 Dec. 1940 at Kilmarnock infirmary age 86 years, usual residence, 8, Playingfield Crescent, Crosshouse, Ayrshire.
F. James Livingstone, occ. joiner / M. Jane McCubbin.
Death registered by grandson James Livingstone.
2. Marriage of James Livingstone, age 23, b. 06 July 1832 & Jane McCubbin, age 25,b. 1830 at Kirkholm, Wigtonshire on 31 Dec. 1855
at Church of Scotland, Dalry, Ayrshire
Occ. Wright journeyman & domestic servant.
James res. at Sharon St., Dalry & Jane at Little Auldmuir, Dalry.
James parents, Robert Livingstone, silk weaver & Margaret Brown.
Jane parents, Alexander McCubbin, farm servant & Agnes Jackson.
John
I've already sent Arran the certs., but I'll post this just in case it's of use to someone else in the future;
1. Death of Alexander, 20 Dec. 1940 at Kilmarnock infirmary age 86 years, usual residence, 8, Playingfield Crescent, Crosshouse, Ayrshire.
F. James Livingstone, occ. joiner / M. Jane McCubbin.
Death registered by grandson James Livingstone.
2. Marriage of James Livingstone, age 23, b. 06 July 1832 & Jane McCubbin, age 25,b. 1830 at Kirkholm, Wigtonshire on 31 Dec. 1855
at Church of Scotland, Dalry, Ayrshire
Occ. Wright journeyman & domestic servant.
James res. at Sharon St., Dalry & Jane at Little Auldmuir, Dalry.
James parents, Robert Livingstone, silk weaver & Margaret Brown.
Jane parents, Alexander McCubbin, farm servant & Agnes Jackson.
John
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jmlivingstone
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm
Re: John Livingstone (1904?)
Hi Donald,
Another little bit of info.,
Marriage on 15 Dec. 1876 of Alexander Livingstone, 20 yrs, occ. pitheadman to Agnes Rodger, 22 yrs., occ. house servant, both listed as resident at 6, Gilmore St., Kilmarnock.
Parents, James Livingstone, occ. joiner, & Jane McCubbin / James Rodger, occ. labourer & Margaret Jardine,
John
Another little bit of info.,
Marriage on 15 Dec. 1876 of Alexander Livingstone, 20 yrs, occ. pitheadman to Agnes Rodger, 22 yrs., occ. house servant, both listed as resident at 6, Gilmore St., Kilmarnock.
Parents, James Livingstone, occ. joiner, & Jane McCubbin / James Rodger, occ. labourer & Margaret Jardine,
John