Canadian Livingstones

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jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Canadian Livingstones

Post by jmlivingstone »

Robin,

I've found a Charlotte in the 1901 census, at a small farm in Portlethen, which is probably about 6-7 miles south of Aberdeen, she is listed as a boarder, no other member of her family is listed in census. This would possibly reinforce the story about a fire at home and Charlotte being brought up elsewhere for a time.

I'll have a further look when I get home tonight, www.scotlandspeople, also has a Charlotte, and at least two Thomas's,

John.
jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Canadian Livingstones

Post by jmlivingstone »

Robin,

I suspect this could be your Charlotte, dates tie in etc., certainly worth further research, the 1901 census has the following info ;

Name; Charlotte Livingstone.

Age; 6 years.

Birth year (Estimated); 1895.

Relationship; Boarder.

Registration; Portlethen.

Civil Parish; Banchory Devenick.

County; Kincardineshire.

Address; East Cookston.

Occupation; Scholar.

Household; 19. ED' 1.

Household Members; Jessie S. Clark 46 years.
Jessie C. Clark 13
Marjory C. Clark 11
Margaret Davidson 13
John Dennis 15
Wm. Dennis 8
Charlotte Livingstone 6.

Portlethen is about 6-7 miles south of Aberdeen on the east coast, Banchory Devenick is 2-3 miles south of Aberdeen, hope this is of use to you,

John
Druske
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:40 am

Re: Canadian Livingstones

Post by Druske »

This is great John! Thank you very much!

I will follow up on your tip for sure, another late night tonight for me! Best kind to have when on the hunt for ancestors! Lol! :)

Have a great evening, and thanks again!

Robin
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2704
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Canadian Livingstones

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,



There was a Charlotte Livingstone born November 27, 1894 at Pathhead Dysart, Fifeshire daughter of William Livingstone and his wife Jane Doig This would be the William Livingston and Jane Doig that Robin mentioned. The birth record states that William Livingston was a plasterer journeyman who married Jane Doig on May 2, 1876. Curiously when I located the marriage record it actually stated that William Livingstone age 20 of Dundee and Jane Doig age 19 of Dundee were married May 2 1876 in St. Marys District, Dundee City, Angus. At the time of his marriage the record states William was ship plate riveter and the son of William Livingston boiler maker and Margaret Cay? previously Livingston? His wife Jane Doig Factory hand was the daughter of Thomas Doig a mason's laborer and Elizabeth McKenzie. So this must be where the William Livingston and Jane Doig info comes from. I have not yet found their census trail but I did find this:

William Livingston died APril 19 1932 age 76 years at Woodland Hospital, Aberdeen Plasterer Journeyman husband of Jane Doig
Formerly Angus Father not listed Mother Margaret Angus?

Jane Livingston widow of WIlliam Livingston plasterer died Feb. 26, 1943 age 85 yrs District of NEw Deer, County of Aberdeen Parents: Thomas Doig seasonal laborer and Elizabeth McKenzie

I have updated this message. Based on the information RObin provided from the 1919 marriage record of Charlotte Livingstone to Patrick Allen in Toronto, Canada in 1919 I would suspect that this William Livingston and Jane Doag are the parents of Robin's Charlotte Livingston she is researching.


regards,

Donald
jmlivingstone
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Canadian Livingstones

Post by jmlivingstone »

Donald,

The K,N is another example of poor transcription, on the original census return, it is written as N,K, which I assume is not known.

I've got some info on e-mail, I'll copy and paste it here tomorrow,

John
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2704
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Canadian Livingstones

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi John,

I think that Robin is stating that Charlotte's marriage record in Canada stated that her parents were William Livingstone and Janet if that is the case then the parents must be William Livingston and Jane Doig. (She mentioned Doig) THere are no other William and Jane Livingstons with a daughter Charlotte born abt. 1895 actually 1894 but close enough. The others were born in 1895 so that may be where the confusion lies. I will check again some of the Canadian info and see what I can find.

THe complete marriage record of George Patrick Allen and his wife Charlotte Livingstone in 1919 can be accessed through ancestry.ca. if you have Canadian or worldwide access with ancestry.com. Took a quick look . The husband was the deponent and he must not known his future mother in law's family name so the marriage record just refers to the parents of Charlotte Livingston as William Livingston and Janette. THey were married in Toronto, Ontario. Ancestry.ca just states on the basis of the age given for Charlotte on her marriage record that she was born "about 1895". That explains why when I finally saw the birth record for William and Jane (Janet's) daughter Charlotte it was actually in 1894. As you can see it was only at the end the day that I thought of checking for any Charlotte Livingstons born either a year before or after. There seemed something wrong about 1895.


regards,

Donald
Druske
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:40 am

Re: Canadian Livingstones

Post by Druske »

:o Oh my goodness gents! I'm so excited!! I have been pouring over this latest development and haven't quite absorbed it all, but I can't believe you've found them! I've had the wrong birthdate this whole time. I'm going to take this new information (there is so much here to go through), but I'm very confident in the William Livingstone and Jane Doig are my gggrandparents. Once I've had a chance to catch my breath I'll be back. Thank you so very much! Robin
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2704
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Canadian Livingstones

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Robin,

Curiously William's father is not recorded in his 1932 death record but his mother is listed as Margaret Angus. Found William Livingstone in the 1861 Census residing a a young boy with his grandfather George Angus and his mother Margaret Cail (maiden name Angus) she is listed in this census entry as a "salmon fisherman's wife" so I assume her second husband is a Cail this fisherman but absent for the census. Her son William Livingston obviously retained her first husband, his father's name. The father is not named on his death record but in his marriage record William Livingston names William Livingston boiler maker as his father and his mother as Margaret Cay? which must be the Margaret Cail listed with him in the 1861 Census. (See below) .This all makes sense now. William's mother whose maiden name was Angus remarried after William's father died to a Mr. Cail I presume. Have to check that out William was born abt. 1855 or 1856 so it must have been sometime between 1855 and 1861 when William's father WIlliam Livingston died. I will see if I can find a birth record for William around 1855 or 1856

Here is the Census info for 1861 for your ancestor WIlliam Livingstone residing with his grandfather George Angus in Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire

Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire St. Nicholas District, St Clements Parish 42 1/2 St. Clements Street

George Angus age 49 father born Fyvie, Aberdeenshire
Janet Angus age 49 mother (Janet maiden name Shand) born Logie, Aberdeenshire
Margaret Cail age 29 daughter (Salmon fisher's wife) born Slains, Aberdeenshire (married to seaman/ fisherman and resident not listed James McCaie/Cail/Cay
Charlotte Angus daughter age 14 daughter born Old Machar, Aberdeenshire
Alexander Angus age 11 son born Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire
William Livingstone age 5 grandson born Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire (Mother Margaret Cail or McCaie maiden name Angus)
James A Cail under 4 months grandson (named after father James McCaie, Cail or Cay) (Mother Margaret Cail)

Now this gets more complicated, but some things are becoming clearer. I found a marriage record for the above mentioned Margaret Cail (Margaret Angus). Margaret Angus age 21 spinster 52 Clement Street daughter of George Angus gatekeeper and Janet Shand married James McCaie age 22 Seaman and residing at No. 42 1/2 Clement Street, St Nicholas District, Aberdeen on June 21, 1856. In the 1861 Census it appears that James McCaie is at sea and George Angus and the rest of the ANgus kin are living in his residence on Clement Street, although George ANgus, Margaret's father is listed as head of household. At first McCae made no sense to me and then I remembered that William Livingstone had listed his mother as Margaret Cay in his marriage record years later which must be Margaret McCaie. Cay is McCaie and badly spelled in the 1861 Census became Cale. It appears that William Livingstone was born a year or so before his mother married Seaman James McCaie a neighbour and as she is recorded as a spinster this suggests that William Livingstone was illegitimate. We would not likely have a name of the father of WIliam but for the fact that William obviously knew and was told that William Livingstone a boiler maker was his birth father which he indicated on his marriage record i found. I am trying to find this William Livingstone boiler maker in the 1851 Scottish Census but without luck. All I know is according to the 1861 Census William the son was born in Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire and perhaps the father William Livingstone boiler maker resided there also but I have not located him as yet. Margaret and family were living in Aberdeen at the time of William's birth, but we don't know the whereabouts or very much about the apparent birth father William Livingstone Sr. So this does get a bit complicated. Hope this helps. If it was not for this complication it would be easier to trace his Livingston line back another generation or more. As it is I am not sure I can find WIlliam Livingstone boiler maker his actual father in the records. Hope this makes sense.


regards,

Donald
Druske
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:40 am

Re: Canadian Livingstones

Post by Druske »

Good morning Donald.

I spent the majority of last night trying to find the records you originally found in Ancestry to help me in digesting the information. Either I am terrible at using Ancestry or you've found this information somewhere else? Could I trouble you to email me these records? I thank you so very much for all of your time you've spent helping me. This is so exciting for me, as this branch of my tree has been my brick wall for years. It may be due to the incorrect dates as well as me using primarily Ancestry?

Have a fantastic day!

Robin
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2704
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: Canadian Livingstones

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Robin,
Glad John and I were able to help with the search for Charlotte and her Livingstone kin. Sorry that I can't seem to get as far beyond Charlotte's father's family as I would of liked.

Unfortunately due to time constraints and other research/writing projects I am involved with I do not offer genealogical services beyond the bit of assistance here and there/from time to time via the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society forum when needed as a member and Clan Historian of the Clan Maclea Livingstone Society. I do this to generate interest in the forum and most importantly in our Clan Society under the leadership of our Clan Chief Niall Livingstone the Baron of Bachuil. I can tell you that the complete photographed copy of Charlotte's 1919 marriage record is available through ancestry.ca, but to view it I think you have to have complete access to ancestry.ca THe birth, marriage and death info for Charlotte's kin can viewed through Scotland's people, but again you need access to that. Hopefully the information I have provided has helped to answer some of the questions you had regarding Charlotte's ancestry and encourage you to continue your genealogy quest.

I will see if and William's father William Livingstone the boiler maker can be found in the Scottish census records, but it not looking good so far. I am assuming he lived in Aberdeen where William Livingstone was apparently born around 1855. I dont think I mentioned that I could not find any birth or baptismal records for Charlotte's father William in the 1855 or 1856. Even if William was illegitimate, illegitimate children in 19th century in the scottish presbyterian records I have worked with often have recorded parish records. So I dont know why Charlotte's father's birth or baptism around 1855 or 1856 apparently in Aberdeen according to information in the 1861 Scottish census does not seem to exist. The fact that William is recorded as a boy in the 1861 Census as William Livingstone and not by his mother's name or his step father's name (McCaie (also spelt anglicised Cay or Cail for some reason) suggests to me clearly his birth father was a William Livingstone whom William himself in his marriage record refers to as William Livingstone boiler maker. I dont see any evidence that he ever used his mother's maiden name though he was clearly raised by his mother's family all of his early life. I think he must have been told of his father and may have even met him later in life. The only conclusion that I can make is that his mother made certain that young WIlliam be referred to as Livingstone because his father was a Livingstone. He could just have easily as an infant have adopted his seaman/fisherman, step father's name which was McCaie or Cay. William was only about a year old or less when his mother in 1856 as mentioned married James McCaie (also Cay or Cail in the records). The only conclusion i can draw from that was that his mother wanted him to have his birth father's name. I wonder why they didn't just refer to him as William McCaie? I wonder if the birth father William Livingstone the boiler maker made any efforts to communicate with young William in Aberdeen. I guess will never know that.

I thought at first that perhaps the scenario was that WIlliam's mother married his father William Livingstone boiler maker in the early 1850's then William Sr. suddenly died before the baby was born and she remarried rather quickly to seaman James McCaie. THe only problem with that scenario was that I could not find any record of her marriage to a Willam Livingstone in the 1850's, only an 1856 marriage record which states that she was "spinster" rather than a widower at the time of her marriage to McCaie in 1856. So there is no indicators that this was her second marriage in 1856. The marriage record clearly indentiies her as the daughter of George Angus and Janet Shand of Aberdeen, so we have the right person. I have updated the previous lengthy post in some places so that it makes more sense with what we now know. I am perplexed also by the fact that I have failed to find Charlotte's parents WIlliam Livingstone and Janet Doag and any family they had in the 1881, 1891 or 1901 Scottish census when clearly they continued to live in Scotland as far as I can tell and infact as their death records I located indicated died in Scotland. WHy cant I find them in the 1881, 1891 and 1901 Scottish census records after their marriage in the 1870's. Yet another mystery. Perhaps John may have more luck locating them or Charlotte's siblings, now that we have determined which Livingston family we are looking for in Scotland.


regards,

Donald
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