William Livingstone

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RLivingstone
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: William Livingstone

Post by RLivingstone »

Donald,

I am back tracking yet again because I still have not convincingly found my great grandfather or his parents yet. I def not one of those folks floating around on Ancestry with a passing part time interest in genealogy that will claim what looks or sounds good..... I have to know for sure I will keep looking. I have been crazy frustrated the last few days so I decided to come back here and reread all the posts in case I missed something. As soon as I reach the bottom of this coffee cup and the brain fog is lifted, I will read all the posts in here again and try to come at this thing from another angle. Appreciate everyone's assistance!
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2701
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: William Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi R,

I can very much appreciate your frustration and disappointment at reaching a genealogy brick wall regarding your ancestor William Livingston. I am currently researching my ancestral connection to Rev. Roger Williams founder of 17th century Rhode Island through his daughter Mercy William's (Mrs Samuel WInsor's) daughter Sarah Winsor (Mrs James King) Unfortunately some family trees of Mercy Williams and her second husband Samuel Winsor have them with a daughter Sarah Winsor (Mrs. James King) and others do not. So I can not say for certain then that I am in fact a direct descendant of the founder of Rhode Island, though it is clear I am related to the original King, Thornton and Winsor families who were acquainted with Rev Roger Williams, some of whom were apparently connected to his early Baptist congregation in Rhode Island. But proving that my King and Thornton ancestors in Rhode Island were descended from Rev. Roger Williams has proven difficult with the conflicting information that is available. So I can very easily relate to your own genealogical challenges with your ancestor William Livingston.

I am sorry I was not able to find the William Livingston you are looking for in the Canadian records. William Livingston born in the 1860's in Mornington, Perth County Ontario Canada son of Peter Livingston and his wife Janet Riddle is definitely not your ancestor William Livingston. William son of Peter Livingston as mentioned in my earlier message did not leave Canada and died there for certain according that his family info. So he can't be the one you are related to that left Canada for the United States. William's father Peter Livingston was born in East Kilbride Lanarkshire.A John Livingston Sr. an older brother of Dr. Livingstone that originated in Blantyre, Lanarkshire also lived after 1860 in Perth County, Ontario but he did not have a son William born in the 1860's.

One thing I found interesting during my search for your ancestor in the Canadian census records of 1871 and 1881 is that many of the William Livingstons born in the mid 1860's in Canada according to the Canadian Census records were recorded as being actually of an Ireland family origin (Scotch-Irish) that is to say that their parents originated likely from Ulster in the North of Ireland and who sometime earlier in the 1800's settled in Canada. Their ancestors were lowland Scots who were encouraged to settled in the six counties of Ireland during the early 17th century. Their descendants who later settled in Canada from one of the Counties in Ulster Ireland in the 1800's are referred to in the 19th century Canadian Census record as being of Irish origin often by the census taker in those times. Among those Livingston families of Scotch Irish Ulster origin the name William would also perhaps of had some historical connection with them to William of Orange and that earlier period of 17th century Ulster history.

Since your William Livingston, born in the 1860's from what little information available from the 1900 U.S Census, was the son of parents both born in Scotland then I guess that appears to definitely rule out the William Livingstons born in the mid 1860's in the Ontario, Canada census records of 1871 and 1881 who seem to be of parents who the census suggests were apparently born in Ireland rather than Scotland. I will take another look for another William Livingston born in the mid 1860's with parents born in Scotland just be certain I have not overlooked someone.


regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2701
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: William Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi R,
You mentioned William had been a "fireman" and worked for the railroad.
If your ancestor William Livingston was a fireman he would probably have been a railroad "fireman" which is old 19th century steam railroad terminology for a person who was responsible for maintaining the operation of the boiler for the steam engine powered trains and may have been so when a railroad accident apparently claimed his life in the first decade of the 20th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireman_% ... _engine%29

Most of the William Livingtons born in the 1860's in the Ontario, Canada census records of the 1871 and 1881 as mentioned are of parents who were born in Ireland, with only a couple of Scottish parentage born in the 1860' in Ontario, but I did find one of interest a William Livingston born in 1863 in Ontario whose father Thomas Livingston and mother Barbara were born in Scotland. The family in the 1871, 1881 and 1891 Ontario Canada census records are recorded as residing in Brock, Ontario County, North in Ontario, Canada. Their son William Livingston interestingly appears in the 1871, 1881 Census at the family residence in Brock, but is no longer living with the family of Thomas and Barbara Livingston by the time of the 1891 Canadian Census. I don't know that this would be your ancestor William Livingston as he is recorded as being 2 or 3 years older than your ancestor apparently would have been in 1871 and 1881, but there are frequently errors in the recording of ages in Census records. It may just be that this William Livingston died in Ontario sometime between 1881 and 1891 or left home as he was the eldest child in the family of Thomas and Barbara Livingston located elsewhere in Canada and I just have not found him. Only one person on ancestry.com seems aware of Thomas and Barbara Livingston of Brock, Ontario and while they acknowledge that their eldest child was this William Livingston they don't have any info on him other that that he was born abt. 1863. So no clues from ancestry.com. He probably is not your William Livingston but his info caught my attention when I noticed he was of Scottish parents who settled in Canada and that he is missing after the 1881 Census in Canada which would fit with your William who apparently left Canada for America around 1884.

regards,

Donald
RLivingstone
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: William Livingstone

Post by RLivingstone »

Hello Again :-)

Thought I would update things. Pretty confident in William Livingstone having been born in Canada and I'm also confident that he didn't give his correct age for census when he came to America. DNA testing has opened my tree up tremendously, after learning how to use the information. I am genetically connected to both Boston Livingstone's and Livingstone's/Livingston's from Nova Scotia, distantly so, which is the reason for the confidence in the Canada/English origin of birth on the 1900 South Dakota census. I also found William Livingstone on the 1895 South Dakota census working for the railroad.

I'm pretty sure he lied about his age as well, or there was a conflict of hearing between himself and the census taker. I believe he was actually Neil Livingstone (Neil William or William Neil) born in Nova Scotia in 1856, not 1865 and his parents were Neil Livingstone and Ann Cameron. I won't rest until I know for sure but I'm far more confident and knowledgable than I was a year ago on the subject. My DNA didn't relate any Irish at all; I'm 25% Scottish, more specifically the test said my ancestors were likely from the Highlands, Argyll & Bute and the Isle of Mull specifically. My aunt (my fathers sister) did her DNA and she came up with 46% Scottish, from the same areas that I did...... so I'm barking up the right tree. I gave up on Peter Livingstone and Janet Riddel because they lived in a completely different part of Canada and were connected to Dr. David Livingstone from the Lowlands.

I've read back through these message several times over the past 10 months and have valued the experience and advice that is in here. Thank you!

Rene' Livingstone
RLivingstone
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: William Livingstone

Post by RLivingstone »

Just me again :-)

In case anyone can help, I have hit a brick wall again in my great grandfathers lineage. it goes like this:
My father Guy
My grandfather Guy
My great grandfather Neil/William from Nova Scotia, Canada
His parents. Neil Livingstone of Mull, Scotland and Ann Cameron of Nova Scotia, Canada
Neil's parents, John of Isle of Mull, Scotland and Catherine Campbell of Isle of Mull, Scotland
John's parents, Angus from Ayrshire, Scotland and Grace McColl of Isle of Mull, Scotland
Angus's parents, John Malcolm of Inverness, Scotland and Catherine McPhee/McFee of Inverness, Scotland
John Malcolm's parents, Capt John of Scotland and Elizabeth Hamilton of Scotland

Here is the brick wall:
Capt John's parents, Sir David Livingstone of Scotland possibly Marjory Shaw also of Scotland

I can't find Sir Davi'd's parents

If anyone has the time and can assist, I would be grateful.
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2701
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: William Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi R. Livingston,
There is unfortunately no known affluent or prominent lowland Livingston ancestral connection with John Livingston Sr. of Mabou, Mull River Cape Breton, Nova Scotia who with his wife Catharine (Mary) Campbell settled in Mabou Mull River, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia about 1821 from Kilninian Parish, Mull, Argyll. John Livingston was a highland Celt an Argyllshire Maclea Livingstone actually originally from neighbouring Morvern Parish but moved to and married a Campbell from Teang. Mull. He was a humble labourer and tenant residing in Western Argyllshire with no known connection to any earlier affluent or prominent lowland Livingston family I can assure you. Our Mull and Morvern Livingstons in Argyll were from poor tenant families barely getting by for the most part. I would seriously question the source of the information that stated there was a link between the Mull River Mabou Livingstons of Nova Scotia and this prominent lowland Livingston. I am pretty certain that is not correct.

The John Livingston Sr. and Catharine Campbell of Mabou, Mull River, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia you mention were residents and natives of highland Mull, Argyll actually and not connected to the old lowland Ayrshire, Scotland Livingstons. Catharine was from Teang, Mull, Argyll and her husband John Livingston was actually a neighbouring Morvern Parish labourer at the time of his marriage in 1805. A Y chromosome DNA test that I had done some years ago with a documented direct descendant of this Cape Breton, Nova Scotia John Livingston of Mabou Mull River indicated that this Nova Scotia Livingston was not genetically connected with Dr. Livingstone's family and closely matching with other "highland Maclea Livingstone's who had for centuries resided in Argyllshire and not in lowland Counties.


I have updated this post because looking back at your earlier messages regarding your grandfather Guy Livingston and the earlier U.S info on Guy and his family very likely he and his Father had no close family connection to the Mabou Mull River Livingstons and there is no information out there to support the notion that Guy would have a Nova Scotia famiy connection. You may find via Ancestry.com for example some Livingston families of Scottish origin of different origins that perhaps shares some aspects of their DNA with your Livingtons but this is likely not as reliable an indicator of a close paternal Livingston family link with your Livingstons than if for example your father or brother had done the Y chromosome test that was mentioned.

Sorry but I needed to refresh my memory. The crux of the problem remains that Canadian records for Guy's father William born in Canada indicating who his parents were can't be found. If you have a Livingstone cousin who would be interested in doing a familytreedna Y DNA test we would be able to quite likely determine which Livingston family group your famiy is a match with but there is not guarantee that you could locate close Livingston relatives through Y DNA testing as in cousins unless some Livingston cousins had done this test. Still it your best course of action to give you some chance of getting a sense of your of more distant paternal Livingston ancestral origins if not locating a descendant of your ancestor William Livingston's kin that lived in Canada.

Your ancestor William Livingston according to the 1900 U.S Census came to the U.S. in the year 1884 with or without parents I assume. As previously mentioned William and his wife Ann married in 1891 according to the 1900 Census. I checked the marriage records around the 1891 period give or take five years after five years before just to be sure for the States of Iowa, South Dakota and Missouri with no luck finding their marriage record. This is unfortunate has it been there it would quite likely have listed the name of the parents of your ancestor William Livingston. That for me has impeded my making any progress on this one. I have researched a large number of Livingstone/Livingston families over the years with much success but on occasion one run into a dead end where the pertinent family records can't for one reason or another be located. I am very sorry about that.

One has to take the submitted family tree information with some of those on ancestry. com very cautiously. There are a lot of errors and a good number of families link themselves to Livingston families they are not related to for some reason particularly Dr. David Livingstone.

In terms of the ancestry.com test you might see a variety of unrelated Livingstone included as possible matches, but if you start seeing some Livingston ancestry.com participants linked to you as second cousins, third cousins, 4th cousins, 5th cousins you should let us know about any particularly close potential Livingston relatives and the ancestral info. The difficulty to bear in mind is that the odds are significant a Livingston cousin connected to the father of William Livingston may not have done the ancestry.com. What you may find however now or in the future that a Livingston whose family was more distantly related back in Scotland to the Father of your ancestor William Livingston make do the ancestry.com test which you did and because you share a distant Livingston ancestor and they are 5th or 6th cousins etc. they might alert to that fact. That is the kind of thing I would be watching having I think done the same ancestry.com test a few years ago myself and they frequently contact me about suspected distant cousins from both my father and mother's family groups. But again I said this is not as reliable and helpful as if you had a Livingston relative descended from William Livingston do the family tree Y DNA test where already a large number of Livingstones/ Livingstons from the United States, Canada, Scotland etc. have been over the years been tested.

regards.

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
Historian
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2701
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: William Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi R Livingstone.

There are state census as well as U.S Census records
I've tried the State Census records from the 1895 and 1905 for Iowa, South Dakota and Missouri as your great-greatfather William Livingstone married Anna Treacher in the early 1890's probably in 1891 but for some reason they were not recorded in any of those state censuses. I was hopeful they might be.

Some of these state death records interestingly enough list the name of the parents of the deceased but again unfortunately no death record from the early 1900's for your paternal great-grandfather William Livingston could be found. Some North American marriage records record the name of the groom and brides parents and some do not. I am not certain about how detailed the marriage records for Iowa, South Dakota or Missouri but the indexes did not include a marriage for Wiliam and Ann. I now see that there is a marriage certificate dated Nov. 17, 1792 for William and Ann Hanibal, Missouri so I assume then that they weren't married in 1891 but more likely in 1892. Some marriage related records include the names of the groom's and bride's parent but not unfortunately with this one.

You have probably already seen this but I did find today a birth record for Archie N. Livingston son of William Livingstone and Ann Triaecher born Nov.7, 1897 in Fort Maddison, Lee County Iowa. Note that birth date of Nov. 1894 in the 1900 U.S Census South Dakota for William and Ann Livingstone's son Archie is possibly an error recorded by the census taker.


You might find this to be a lead worth checking out.
Assuming that William Livingston died in South Dakota around 1905 or 1906 I did a search of the South Dakota death index via ancestry.com and did not find a William Livingston but I did find a "Livingston" no first name recorded in this very briefly detailed index who died July 17 1905 in Yankton County, Dakota. Could this "no name" Livingston who died in 1905 in Yankton South Dakota be your ancestor. Might be worth it for you to make some inquiries in South Dakota about acquiring a copy of the complete record to check whether it could be your ancestor William Livingston. Presumingly the original record will give an age and other details regarding this Livingston than the index did. Could prove to be a dead end but perhaps worth checking out. Considering that your great grandfather's death record from 1905 or 1906 ? appears to be missing and this record is from the year 1905 apparently missing a first name at least in the index if not in the original record there is chance this could be your Livingston ancestor's lost death record. In the 1900 U.S. Census William Livingston is situated in Lawrence County South Dakota in the Western portion of that State and this unknown name Livingston who died in 1905 is situated at the time of their death in south east part of this state in Yankton County and it may prove to be another Livingston who died in 1905, but given that William and family seem move about quite frequently it is possible that this could be his death record.

regards,

Donald
RLivingstone
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: William Livingstone

Post by RLivingstone »

Canadian Livingstone wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 2:31 pm Hi R. Livingston,
There is unfortunately no known affluent or prominent lowland Livingston ancestral connection with John Livingston Sr. of Mabou, Mull River Cape Breton, Nova Scotia who with his wife Catharine (Mary) Campbell settled in Mabou Mull River, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia about 1821 from Kilninian Parish, Mull, Argyll. John Livingston was a highland Celt an Argyllshire Maclea Livingstone actually originally from neighbouring Morvern Parish but moved to and married a Campbell from Teang. Mull. He was a humble labourer and tenant residing in Western Argyllshire with no known connection to any earlier affluent or prominent lowland Livingston family I can assure you. Our Mull and Morvern Livingstons in Argyll were from poor tenant families barely getting by for the most part. I would seriously question the source of the information that stated there was a link between the Mull River Mabou Livingstons of Nova Scotia and this prominent lowland Livingston. I am pretty certain that is not correct.

** I'm not worried about connecting to any "affluent"; the possible connection to Dr. Livingston was mentioned in another thread as a long distant cousin, a few times removed. Thats it. My dna test states I am 54% Scottish with ancestors from the Highland areas of Argyll & Bute. My research over the years came up with that years before my dna test results. I am only interested in MY people and where they came from. I don't care about how poor they were, they were still my people. **


The John Livingston Sr. and Catharine Campbell of Mabou, Mull River, Cape Breton, Nova Scotia you mention were residents and natives of highland Mull, Argyll actually and not connected to the old lowland Ayrshire, Scotland Livingstons. Catharine was from Teang, Mull, Argyll and her husband John Livingston was actually a neighbouring Morvern Parish labourer at the time of his marriage in 1805. A Y chromosome DNA test that I had done some years ago with a documented direct descendant of this Cape Breton, Nova Scotia John Livingston of Mabou Mull River indicated that this Nova Scotia Livingston was not genetically connected with Dr. Livingstone's family and closely matching with other "highland Maclea Livingstone's who had for centuries resided in Argyllshire and not in lowland Counties.

** I'm aware of this. I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from. Let me know if its me. **

I have updated this post because looking back at your earlier messages regarding your grandfather Guy Livingston and the earlier U.S info on Guy and his family very likely he and his Father had no close family connection to the Mabou Mull River Livingstons and there is no information out there to support the notion that Guy would have a Nova Scotia family connection. You may find via Ancestry.com for example some Livingston families of Scottish origin of different origins that perhaps shares some aspects of their DNA with your Livington's but this is likely not as reliable an indicator of a close paternal Livingston family link with your Livingstons as if for example your father or brother had done the Y chromosome test that was mentioned.

** Not sure how you came to this conclusion. I came to the conclusion that I "do" in fact have connections to Nova Scotia because of the DNA test matches I have from that area, as well as with some McDonalds, Camerons and Campbells from Nova Scotia. **

Sorry but I needed to refresh my memory. The crux of the problem remains that Canadian records for Guy's father William born in Canada indicating who his parents were can't be found. If you have a Livingstone cousin who would be interested in doing a familytreedna Y DNA test we would be able to quite likely determine which Livingston family group your famiy is a match with but there is not guarantee that you could locate close Livingston relatives through Y DNA testing as in cousins unless some Livingston cousins had done this test. Still it your best course of action to give you some chance of getting a sense of your of more distant paternal Livingston ancestral origins if not locating a descendant of your ancestor William Livingston's kin that lived in Canada.

** I agree that the problem is lack of records for William/Neil Livingstone. I have a young son who is willing to do the Y test sometime this year. **

Your ancestor William Livingston according to the 1900 U.S Census came to the U.S. in the year 1884 with or without parents I assume. As previously mentioned William and his wife Ann married in 1891 according to the 1900 Census. I checked the marriage records around the 1891 period give or take five years after five years before just to be sure for the States of Iowa, South Dakota and Missouri with no luck finding their marriage record. This is unfortunate has it been there it would quite likely have listed the name of the parents of your ancestor William Livingston. That for me has impeded my making any progress on this one. I have researched a large number of Livingstone/Livingston families over the years with much success but on occasion one run into a dead end where the pertinent family records can't for one reason or another be located. I am very sorry about that.

** I go over those same state census records every few months, just in case I have missed something or something new is added. Nothing so far. The story goes that William/Neil Livingstone was killed in a rail road accident when his only daughter was a baby; I have to assume about 1906, the year she was born. I have a copy of the marriage license already and no parents are listed for either William/Neil Livingstone or Anna Treaster on it. **


One has to take the submitted family tree information with some of those on ancestry. com very cautiously. There are a lot of errors and a good number of families link themselves to Livingston families they are not related to for some reason particularly Dr. David Livingstone.

** Yes, I realize this and am not looking for a connection with a famous anyone. **

In terms of the ancestry.com test you might see a variety of unrelated Livingstone included as possible matches, but if you start seeing some Livingston ancestry.com participants linked to you as second cousins, third cousins, 4th cousins, 5th cousins you should let us know about any particularly close potential Livingston relatives and the ancestral info. The difficulty to bear in mind is that the odds are significant a Livingston cousin connected to the father of William Livingston may not have done the ancestry.com. What you may find however now or in the future that a Livingston whose family was more distantly related back in Scotland to the Father of your ancestor William Livingston make do the ancestry.com test which you did and because you share a distant Livingston ancestor and they are 5th or 6th cousins etc. they might alert to that fact. That is the kind of thing I would be watching having I think done the same ancestry.com test a few years ago myself and they frequently contact me about suspected distant cousins from both my father and mother's family groups. But again I said this is not as reliable and helpful as if you had a Livingston relative descended from William Livingston do the family tree Y DNA test where already a large number of Livingstones/ Livingstons from the United States, Canada, Scotland etc. have been over the years been tested.

** I already have 4th-6th cousins linked to Livingstone in Nova Scotia and Ontario. No one with the surname Livingstone or MacLea but MacKenzie, MacDonald, Campbell, Cameron and MacLean, yes. They all have Livingstone in their lines. **


regards.

Donald (Livingstone) Clink
Clan Maclea Livingstone Society
Historian
RLivingstone
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: William Livingstone

Post by RLivingstone »

Canadian Livingstone wrote: Fri May 28, 2021 5:27 pm Hi R Livingstone.

There are state census as well as U.S Census records
I've tried the State Census records from the 1895 and 1905 for Iowa, South Dakota and Missouri as your great-greatfather William Livingstone married Anna Treacher in the early 1890's probably in 1891 but for some reason they were not recorded in any of those state censuses. I was hopeful they might be.

** I have not found anything on William/Neil Livingstone past 1903. William and Anna married 21 Nov 1892 in Hannibal, MO, Marion County. **

Some of these state death records interestingly enough list the name of the parents of the deceased but again unfortunately no death record from the early 1900's for your paternal great-grandfather William Livingston could be found. Some North American marriage records record the name of the groom and brides parents and some do not. I am not certain about how detailed the marriage records for Iowa, South Dakota or Missouri but the indexes did not include a marriage for Wiliam and Ann. I now see that there is a marriage certificate dated Nov. 17, 1792 for William and Ann Hanibal, Missouri so I assume then that they weren't married in 1891 but more likely in 1892. Some marriage related records include the names of the groom's and bride's parent but not unfortunately with this one.

** I wish it had listed their parents, but it doesn't. **

You have probably already seen this but I did find today a birth record for Archie N. Livingston son of William Livingstone and Ann Triaecher born Nov.7, 1897 in Fort Maddison, Lee County Iowa. Note that birth date of Nov. 1894 in the 1900 U.S Census South Dakota for William and Ann Livingstone's son Archie is possibly an error recorded by the census taker.

** Yes, I saw that. His full name was Archie William Livingstone, born 7 Nov 1894 in Fort Madison, Iowa, Lee County" **

You might find this to be a lead worth checking out.
Assuming that William Livingston died in South Dakota around 1905 or 1906 I did a search of the South Dakota death index via ancestry.com and did not find a William Livingston but I did find a "Livingston" no first name recorded in this very briefly detailed index who died July 17 1905 in Yankton County, Dakota. Could this "no name" Livingston who died in 1905 in Yankton South Dakota be your ancestor. Might be worth it for you to make some inquiries in South Dakota about acquiring a copy of the complete record to check whether it could be your ancestor William Livingston. Presumingly the original record will give an age and other details regarding this Livingston than the index did. Could prove to be a dead end but perhaps worth checking out. Considering that your great grandfather's death record from 1905 or 1906 ? appears to be missing and this record is from the year 1905 apparently missing a first name at least in the index if not in the original record there is chance this could be your Livingston ancestor's lost death record. In the 1900 U.S. Census William Livingston is situated in Lawrence County South Dakota in the Western portion of that State and this unknown name Livingston who died in 1905 is situated at the time of their death in south east part of this state in Yankton County and it may prove to be another Livingston who died in 1905, but given that William and family seem move about quite frequently it is possible that this could be his death record.

** I have seen mention of that UNK first name Livingston in Yankton County, South Dakota. Unfortunately there were many Livingstone's mentioned in that area, all of mining descent. Def worth looking further into again as it has been awhile. I will ofcourse look closer at the state level in case I can get my hands on a birth cert for that person. I'm willing to look at anything again and again, if need be. **

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2701
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: William Livingstone

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi R Livingstone.

A number of the Livingstone's whose ancestors came from Mull and neighbouring Morvern parish Argyll and settled in Nova Scotia in the early 1800's have the done the Y Chromosome test and have interestingly similar Y DNA results indicating they descended from a common highland Argyllshire ancestor. They are a part of one Y Argyll Livingstone Y DNA group. Some Livingstons on the other hand whose ancestors originated from Southern Argyllshire and the Isle Islay not too far from the Northern Coast of Ireland, have interestingly proven to be part of different Y DNA match group. This includes a Livingston who was tested for the Y DNA rooted in Simcoe County, Ontario Livingstons that originated whose Isle of Islay, Argyll ancestor settled in Ontario, Canada in the 1830's. From the testing also a third Y DNA match was found connected the very ancient Bachuil Livingstone family of our Clan Chief. These are most common results seen amongst those male Livingstons who father and grandfather etc were Livingstons and who were tested who had previous family information and records of their ancestral connection clearly linking their paternal Livingston ancestors to the County of Argyllshire in 1700's or 1800's.

I have worked over the years with a good number of Livingstons with roots to Argyllshire who were a match with all of these Y DNA match groups and who were tested by family treedna including my own Livingston cousin of Morvern Parish Argyll ancestry. My Livingston cousin was a match with the first Argyll Livingston Y DNA test match group made up of largely Livingstons of Mull and neighbouring Morvern ancestry.

While test you did with ancestry.com is different from the Y DNA test with family treedna it may in some cases provide some clues as those Livingstons quite possibly share a common ancestry with you. It could be that your ancestor William Livingston's ancestors in Scotland were of Mull Argyll origin as some of your Livingston cousin matches with your ancestry.com test suggest. Some of the Livingston families you mention that came up with ancestry.com and your test however we know from the more accurate Y DNA paternal test of Livingston males are not of the same parternal Livingston blood line as the Nova Scotia Livingstons you mention. I know this from the Y DNA testing.

Unless your son's father was a Livingstone the Y DNA with family treedna that many Livingstones world wide have done would not very easily identify his precise ancestral Livingstone family group connection in Scotland which I think is what you really want. If your son's father was not a Livington and son can not be tested as a male Livingston with Livington Y DNA then as mentioned the next thing as I myself did was to try and find a Livingston cousin out there somewhere who would possess your Livingston ancestor paternal Livingstone Y DNA which unfortunately Y DNA testing with familytreedna would require.

I do think the fact that ancestry.com has found some possible Livingston families and Livingstons who be distant cousins is probably helpful clue, but not sure what it means when other Livingstons who don't share the same Livingstons ancestors with one another are also listed as being distant cousins of yours.

I think you might get a better sense of which Scottish Livingston family group you Livingston ancestors in Scotland were connected to if you were able to locate through your research a Livingstone who carries the Livingstone paternal Y DNA of his ancestor William Livingston such as a "Livingstone"grandson, great grandson or great-great grandson of William Livingston descended from one of his sons such as Archie, Raymond, Earl Livingstone or your ancestor Guy. I don't know how easy that would be but if you found on "Livingstone" descendant of William's son's willing to do the Y DNA test with family tree which has tested many Livingstone's from a variety Scottish Livingston family origins you would have best chance of getting close possibly to a more precise match with other Livingstone's already tested who might be able to give you a better sense of where William's Scottish Livingston ancestors resided in 19th century Scotland from their own Scottish origins and those others matching with them following the Y DNA test. This is route I had to take searching to find a known Livingstone relative with a proven family connection by Morvern Parish, Argyll Livingstone ancestor. It was not easy but found a distant cousin who was doing her family research with family name Livingstone who I knew was related my Livingstone ancestor and she finding asked her Livingstone father and he agreed to the family tree Y DNA. Had I not located this distant Livingstone cousin researcher I likely never would have been successful getting a Y DNA test done of a proven living male Livingstone descendant of my ancestor Miles Livingston. Not being a "Livingstone" but descended from one, this Y DNA test was my only option if I wanted to better understand the origins of my Morvern, Argyll Livingstone family group.

regards,

Donald
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