King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Public Forum for anyone interested in tracing their roots.
Forum rules
Remember that this forum is publicly accessible. Do not share private information that you wish to remain private on the Ancestral Search forum.
CatherineAllene
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:56 pm
Location: Surry County, Virginia

King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Post by CatherineAllene »

Looking for those researching Virginia Livingstons and in particular the John Livingston, Sr.,Vestryman, born in New Kent County, VA 1688 and who settled in 1713, 400 acres on Poropotank Creek, Stratton Major Parish, King and Queen County, VA. His son, John Livingston, Jr., 1716-1758, was killed in a ship wreck off the coast of Jamaica.
Greg Livingston
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:42 pm
Location: Northglenn, CO, USA

Re: King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Post by Greg Livingston »

I would be interested in learning about the descendants of your John Livingston. I have a James and his first son John that might fit in there. I don't know where James was born in 1786 but know that he lived in Western PA.
Greg Livingston
Clan Commissioner
Northglenn, Colorado, USA
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2701
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Catharine,

I am sure there are a number of Livingston family researchers who have wondered whether or not they are descended from a branch of the old Aristocratic Callendar Livingston family. One way to help prove a family connection would be for a definite Livingston descendant of thePoropotank Livingston family group to do the Y Chromosome test offered by Familytreedna which has tested a diverse Livingstons from a number of distinct Livingston family origins. I know that one or more of the Poropotank Livingstons have done a Y chromosome test. Not sure whether or not it was with familytreedna but it may have been. The problem though is that it is not entirely clear that there is a definite Livingston of Callendar Livington origin in the DNA project that one could compare with the Poropotank or other Livingstons that have been tested and suspect they are also descendants of the old Callendar Livingston familiy in Scotland. Apparently the Poropotank Livingstons are not a Y Chromosome test match with any of the possible descendants of Clermont, NY Livingstons descended from Robert Livingston of Livingston Manor, NY thought to be descended from a Lord Livingston of Callendar William Livington.

I recently located a documented direct English descendant of the Westquarter line of the old Callendar Livington family but they were not Livingstons or with that name and would be very difficult to find today a person with the name Livingston who can claim descent from the old Callendar family. I was told long ago that the last of those named Livingston of the old families connected to the Callendar Livingtons had pretty much died out. I am not however completely convinced that there is not someone out there named Livingston who is not somehow descended from a forgotten branch of the Livingstons connected to the old Callendar Livingston family.

It would be however difficult to prove without some sort of detailed genealogical document that could be verified and without a Chromosome test of a proven Callendar Livingston to compare with a Poropotank Livington or any other Livngston who believes they are descended from the old Callendar family I would think it very difficult to establish for certain that ancient family connection. We can tell through DNA testing whether or a Livingston is related to Dr. Livingtone because we have a well documented relative of Dr. Livingstone's kin tested to compare with other Llivingstons but until through some miracle we can get a proven Livingston descendant of the old aristocratic Callendar Livingston family tested with a Y chromosome test then we won't have a way to match Livngstons in the DNA project to a proven Livingston of Callendar Livingston origin. So at this point in time the Y chromosome DNA I dont think can determine whether or not the Poropotank LIvingsstons are descended from the old Callendar family. All we know I think is that the Poropotank Livingston or Livingstons? that were tested apparently are not a match with the Livingston of Clermont NY origin throught to be descended from Robert Livingston of Livingston Manor said to be a direct descendant of a Callendar Livingston Lord named William Livingston.

And as for early records in Virginia indicating the origins in Scotland or Ulster Ireland? of your Livingston family I would think other researchers before you would have probably located that information if it existed. I can't say of course for certain that your Livingston ancestor is not descended from the Callendar Livingstons but it would very difficult to prove and I would think it would be worthwhile determining precisely who stated that they were related or possibly related and if they were absolutely certain of this or were just speculating. I was not able to find any documented info regarding the origins of the family in Scotland and none conclusively connecting them to the Callendar family, though I would not completely rule out that possibility. I wish could be of more help to you in Livingston family research quest.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2701
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

HI Greg,

Have you tried contacting your closest Livingston DNA matches through familytreedna and looked into the family origins in Ireland or Scotland of some of your closest matches that are not named Livingston. There is often contact info provided with your closest Livingston matches. They may not be really close matches but they may provide with some clues eventually as to where your Livingston family came from prior to settling in America. We may be talking years in some cases before a really close Livingston relative is found through the testing. I would also do some research on other Livingston families that lived nearby and their origins and see if you can locate 2nd 3rd and fourth etc Livingston cousins of your grandfather Livingston if possible and see what they know about the family. Tracing your Livingston community info of your ancestors and their neighbours and married kin strongly suggested to me a Scotch Irish community connection suggesting the possibility your Livingston family was also Scotch Irish of which there were a large number in Pennsylvania. If your a Livingston in Pennsylvania in the 1700's chances are reasonably good you would a Ulster Scotch Irish Livingston. One can't rule out other possible family origins but we have ruled out through DNA testing that your Livingstons were from highland Argyllshire. I am pretty certain of that. So I think one needs to consider the fact that your earliest known Livingston roots seem be with Scotch Irish community in Pennsylvania.I think we can eventually prove this for certain, but for now it is just a good possibility. A few more Livingston matches and even a close check of the family origins of the some of your family matches with families not named Livingston at familytreedna may also give you clues as whether or not there is a possible Ulster Ireland 18th century connection to your Livingston ancestor who settled I assume in Pennsylvania in the 1700's? I really think the answer is there somewhere and may become clearer as you get more DNA matches with your results.

regards,

Donald
CatherineAllene
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:56 pm
Location: Surry County, Virginia

Re: King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Post by CatherineAllene »

Hi Greg,

Thank you for your reply. My Livingston ancestors all originate in New Kent and King and Queen County, VA [formerly part of Essex County] and not Pennsylvania. I have extensive records on this Livingstone family as I live in Virginia just across the James River from this area and have conducted extensive research on this and other early Virginia settlers. These Livingstons were in Virginia by prior to 1700 and married into several of the earliest Virginia colonial families to which Ancestry proves a DNA connection to me - in particular the Muscoe, Callaway, and Parsons family of early 18th century Virginia. I have a direct DNA line from Virginia to southwestern North Carolina and western Virginia where members of these families moved during our westward expansion. As you are aware, younger sons inherited nothing and took advantage of land grants on the western frontier. These areas were indeed considered the frontier when Both John Orrell and William Todd Livingston left eastern Virginia and traveled west. I am not saying there were no Livingstons in Pennsylvania, but not in my direct line.


This being said, I know the early American origin of my Livingston family but not their exact European origin. I am traveling to Scotland in August and hoped by joining this forum I might get a better idea of their Scottish origin.
Last edited by CatherineAllene on Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CatherineAllene
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:56 pm
Location: Surry County, Virginia

Re: King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Post by CatherineAllene »

Greg,

I have a family tree for my Livingston line if you would like me to send it to you.
best,
Catherine
CatherineAllene
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:56 pm
Location: Surry County, Virginia

Re: King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Post by CatherineAllene »

I apologize for the multiple post today. I was away from my office most of yesterday and I am just reading through all of your very helpful posts.

In response to a living descendant of the Poropotank line: My 3rd cousin [130cm match] Robin Livingston is FTDNA kit # 113767 and has completed the Big Y-500. He is also part of the FTDNA U106 Y-DNA Haplogroup forum -
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2701
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Catharine,

A U106 result for a Livingston is indeed interesting. No doubt the Poropotank Livingstons are a U106 match. I am not certain how many of the various Livingston Y chromosome match groups are actually U106 with that familytreedna DNA project in total, but it is interesting that the Poropotank Livingstons seem to be a U106 match. I know that my own Livingston cousin whom I tested more than 10 years ago and his closest matches has results suggesting an ancient Dalriada Ireland origin in the north of Ireland and suggestive of ancient Celtic family origins and a family of Celts that later settled in Western Argyllshire perhaps during the Dalriada Irish settlement of that part of Scotland. My Livingston family has some relatively close match with an Argyllshire branch of Clan Ferguson which also has in their history roots with the Dalriada Celtic Irish settlement of Western Argyllshire long ago, so that Y chromosome test of my own Livingston cousin some years back I think has provided me with some clues as to my own Morvern, Argyll, Scotland Livingston ancestor's more ancient family origins before they resided in Western Argyll which I have found very interesting.

Baron Leving the earliest known ancestor of the Callendar Livingstons originated in Hungary possibly of Saxon Germanic origin before he ended up in Scotland. I don't know if your Livingston family is descended from Baron Leving and the Callendar Livingstons for certain, but U106 is thought by some to be most apparent in men whose paternal ancestors were of Germanic ancestry if understand correctly. At one time the ancient peoples Ireland, Scotland and England were predominately Celtic but with the arrival of the Angles and the Saxons and later the Norsemen, the early peoples that make up the British Isles became more genetically diverse and much more germanic. I would imagine that this Germanic and norse colonization of the British Isles shows up in the genetic testing results. The U106 result I would think suggests that your Livingston ancestor way back might possible have some "Germanic origins". Whether that links your Livingston family with old Baron Leving from the 11th century and the later Callendar Livingston family line I really cannot say. I do think though that it interesting that there are some Livingstons that are a U106 match. Perhaps a clue indicating an angle Saxon or some other Germanic origin for one of your early ancestors. Robin probably has no doubt explored some of the theories regarding his U106 match.

regards,

Donald
Canadian Livingstone
Posts: 2701
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:00 pm

Re: King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Post by Canadian Livingstone »

Hi Catharine,

Just a quick and easy ancestral line listing posted on the forum her from say your Livingston great-grandparents or grandparent as far back to that original Poropotank Livingston family I think would prove helpful on this postings to help any other future King and Queen County Va. Livingston descendants who may stumble across the discussion here in the future.


While over the years there has tended to be a focus her on Maclean-Livingstone families that originated in the parishes of Western Argyllshire as significant number of their descendants from the Canada, United States, Australia, New Zealand, Scotland and England have contacted this over the years, a good number of Livingstons of lesser known origins have also worked with here at the forum. The DNA project I think has also helped me to get a better sense of the "other" Livingston families whose families did not originate from Argyllshire, Scotland, which I might not otherwise have been aware of.

It is not unusual at all for a Livingston from whatever Livingston family origin to be uncertain about their more distant family history. Most of them are aware that their family came from Scotland or Ulster, Ireland if they are Livingstons of "Scotch Irish" origin, but quite frequently they don't possess a Livingston ancestral paper trail left behind by their ancestors as to where precisely in Scotland their Livingston family originated. Land records, Census records etc for their Livingston family predecessors may be available to them, but as mentioned more often than not, these records don't provide any details as to actual origin point of their early Livingston family they are researching. A few Livingstons whom have contacted us her at the forum, particularly those of Maclean-Livingstone western Argyllshire origin, have found their Livingstone ancestors in 19th century census records and in the Scottish parish records, but only a small number have located their ancestors in a surviving ship passenger list. Some visiting the forum arrive having done extensive, well detailed research of their families, others are just beginning their family history research adventure, while others have hit a brick wall in their family research and are finding they can't find any information on their Livingston ancestor that they are looking for. I am very happy that we at the Forum here have over the years been able to help a lot people with Livingston ancestry with some family research problems they are experiencing, but we do regret that sometimes the info they are seeking many be impossible or very difficult to locate and beyond our abilities to do so. But we do what we can.

I am delighted to hear from some of the lesser known Livingston families such as your Poropotank Livingstons connected to early Virginia and others because in the process I learn more about these other Livingston families as well as those connected to highland Argyllshire which I readily admit I have spent a great deal of time on over the years here at this Forum with many other persons also of Western Argyllshire Livingstone ancestry like myself.

regards,

Donald
CatherineAllene
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:56 pm
Location: Surry County, Virginia

Re: King and Queen Co., VA Livingstons

Post by CatherineAllene »

Here is a summary outline of my Livingston line back to New Kent County, VA. and to John Livingston, Sr., 1688-1762, Stratton Major Parish, King and Queen County. My DNA connection begins with his son, John Livingston, Jr., 1716-1752. John Jr., owned the sloop "John" and sailed along the east coast and the Caribbean. He and his sloop are mentioned in early Virginia records. His death is recorded in the New County court as he died off the coast of Jamaica in 1752. In my current research I am tracking this ship to see if it may have sailed out of Edinburgh and was involved in the slave trade. John Jr., married Frances Muscoe, 1712-1781. She was the daughter of Salvatore Muscoe, a London merchant who moved to Virginia. After the ship wreck and death of John Jr., the family was left with extensive debt resulting in the sale of land and personal property. One of John Jr.'s sons, John Orrell Livingston, 1745-1825, moved from Virginia to Wilkes County, North Carolina, where he received a land patent with his uncle, William Todd Livingston, along the Yadkin River valley. William Todd would later patent land in Washington County, VA. His nephew, John Orrell stayed in Wilkes County and married Lucinda Martin. They had many children but my line is through their son John Livingston, who married first Charity Carrel, and 2nd in 1838, Mary Dyson. John Livingston was 60 years old when the only child of this 2nd marriage was born, Caroline Livingston 1841-1896, my 2x great-grandmother. There are no records to indicate Caroline ever married but she had 3 children, 2 sons, William Franklin, and Sidney Livingston, and 1 daughter, Mary Livingston, who is my great-grandmother. Mary Livingston, had one daughter, Nola Livingston, and also never married. Nola Livingston is my grandmother. She married George Henry Correll and together they had four children. Their oldest son, Allen Baynard Correll is my father. As a result of my Ancestry DNA testing I belong to DNA circles that include Livingston, and Dyson descendants still in North Carolina and scattered across the U.S. The 3rd cousin that has tested with Family tree Livingston project is a direct descendant of William Franklin Livingston, mentioned above. We share as our 2x great grandmother, Caroline Livingston.

I hope this information is useful to anyone researching this family. I have detailed notes and copies of court records regarding all of the above. I very much appreciate the in- depth responses I have received on this forum.
regards,
Catherine
Post Reply