McLea of Bute

Kyle2 MacLea · Post by **Kyle2 MacLea** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:24 pm

Dear Forum, I am soon going to post a link to a document I've been working on, incorporating all the McLeas, MacLeas, McOnLeas, Leas, etc., from the Parish of Rothesay, Isle of Bute. I am also aware of a goodly number of McLeas in Greenock. What I'm wondering is:

Kyle2 MacLea · Post by **Kyle2 MacLea** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:27 pm

I should note that the one family of MacLeas I know who derive from Greenock and now live in the USA -- James Darby MacLea chief among them -- have not yet had their DNA tested, though they have an interest in it.

Grant South1 · Post by **Grant South1** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:20 am

Hello Kyle, I previously posted on the forum that I thought given the nature of the Coarbship, being that of the Saint of the Cenel Lorne and the old Bishopic of Argyll, it would be no surprise to find many diverse haplotypes and haplogroups as related families. The sacral lineages in Scotland were very important, and many territorial houses aligned themselves accordingly. Certainly Y-DNA testing has revealed that the Scottish clans are in reality an interwoven plaid of Y-DNA connected through maternal lines of kinship. From ancient times to the present, this has always been the case, it's the basic nature of the family. Of surprise is that even in Ireland, which has always been thought to be strictly patrilineal this has also been revealed. DNA testing is re-writing the history books. This is my own little drum....... Bute is very close to Cowal and the McLeas of Linsaig, if so, we may be cousins. All the best! Grant South.

Kyle2 MacLea · Post by **Kyle2 MacLea** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:51 am

Thanks for writing, Grant!

Grant South1 · Post by **Grant South1** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:42 am

Dear Cousin, I may be able to provide both the linguistic and historical link, bear with me! My ancestors used the name Clee in Donegal, In the American Dictionary of Surnames, Clee is given as a variant of McClay. I believe this detail is recorded in the US as many Irish-Scots made their home there and retained their regional variants. We have evidence that Ewen M'Clee, was a witness to a sasine of the lands of Tollard Begg, the Clan Lamont chiefly stronghold in 1478. As it happens these lands are directly across from Bute. Ewen McClee must have been of local standing and within the circle of the Lamont Chiefs. In these cases likely a feudal noble. Further we have one of the son's of the Baron of Linsaig, recorded in Antrim as, Ensign McClee. Other evidence via records in Donegal support that my Clee family were also recorded as Clea and Clay. This is the evidence I have for my own family descending from the old Linsaig branch of the Barons- McClee being the form recorded for that family. One would naturally concur that since this form is recorded in Scotland, Ulster and America, this is so, as it was the closest form to it's pronunciation. I hope this is meaningful! All the best! Grant South.

Andrew Lancaster4 · Post by **Andrew Lancaster4** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 11:51 am

This spelling theory may not be good enough. Until modern times, English, like other European languages still do, more often pronounced "ee" like we now pronounce "ay". In Ulster English, which is considered a branch of Scots English see still sounds a bit like "say" (and sea and see still a bit different to each other). Regards Andrew

Grant South1 · Post by **Grant South1** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:52 pm

Hello Andrew, You are right, and I agree there are regional differences in the pronunciation, hence the many variants of the name. I do not think it is only a matter of Ulster English, but also of native Gaelic speakers not fluent in English as a foreign language, and English speaking scribes recording their information. My lot were catholic from the Gaelic speaking area of western Donegal, this area is isolated from the rest of Ulster by the Highlands. Even today folk learn English at school. Though I do find it interesting that in the southern Argyll group the 'Clee' sound has continued, I believe it may be suggestive. All the best. Grant.

Andrew Lancaster4 · Post by **Andrew Lancaster4** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 3:36 pm

Dear Grant Rob, that master of clever speculation, knows me as the master of coming up with counter theories (not the devil, just his advocate) and in this tradition: Note that Kyle MacLea's closest matches have names of the form MacAuley, and he also seems to have a whole group of matches over in Northern Ireland (Henries, MacArthurs, McCains etc). It is accepted amongst Maclea historians that a name of the form MacAuley can collapse to Maclea, but is the origin therefore always Mac Onlea? I note Kyle's interest in trying to find a Bute MacLea for the DNA project, and I hope he succeeds. Best Regards Andrew

Grant South1 · Post by **Grant South1** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:00 pm

That's wonderful news Andrew! Kyle, Andrew has mentioned your matches with a group of the MacAulay's. MacAulay of Ardincaple, Dunbartonshire, as cadets of MacGregor, are well within the kindred of our interest, as are those found in Ulster. Accordingly I will keep my eye on any MacPheidirans of Lochfyne, branch adherents of the MacAulay's, that may arise. Here is another historical link! All the best! Grant.