DNA - Where are we?

[Bachuil]

I have been trying to get my head around the "big picture" of the DNA results that we have to date.

[Andrew Lancaster4]

Hi Niall So far, despite being a reasonably successful DNA project, we have had ZERO Scottish families with Ui Neill DNA. Note: 1. I say Scottish, because the project welcomes any Irish families with Dunleavy patronymics. 2. You mention the Ui Neill being from the south, but these Dun leavys show no sign of ever having been in Scotland. 3. Devil's advocate: might a female ancestor of yours have carried on the line at some point in time? If so, what was her father's DNA signature? Second point, concerning the so-called Scots signature, very common in our clan and many others, it is indeed very interesting that some Irish Dunleavys seem to have it, even though it is rare in Ireland. I wish we had more details though, because this information we only have from an academic paper which was not looking for a high resolution. Less promising is the connection to Macgregors and so on. What we've come to realise is that maybe 1 in 5 Scottish men have such a close match, and maybe even more when it comes to Argyll families. So more work is needed to tease apart that dynasty, which is clearly very old (almost certainly PRE-Celtic) and work out who is RECENTLY related to whom. ...hence those extra markers being tested, which correspond to extra tests also going on in other clan projects. But not all clans have such advanced DNA projects, and so concerning comparisons to Lamonts, McSweens etc, we need to wait a while. I should go looking to see how their projects are going! Best Regards Andrew

[Grant South1]

I'd like to reply to this with several basic points. Given the history of the area- co.Down and Antrim should be seen as an extention of west coast Scotland. The traffic was traditionally seasonal. Iam not surprised that Y-DNA in old lineages is found both in Ireland and Scotland from this area. It was a east-west community with a short sea bridge within a small sphere of cultural influence. Cultural difference in this area now is a modern imputation only. My view is that I support the migration theory of the Scotti from eastern Ulster to the west and highlands of Scotland. Below are a few points in our study. 1.The so-called Scots-Cluster is found in those clans with a western to highland location with ancient Irish origin cycles. My present understanding is that it is not found in numbers in other clans outside this traditional orbit. We could look at those particular clans and their held origins? 2.If the MacGregors who have always been held to be the son's of Alpin are in deed representative of the old Dal Riada line. Then we would expect those of the Dal Fiacha to be of a similar haplo-motif? 3.Further we could check this by looking at the Y-DNA of Sept's from co. Down and Antrim? We would only need some of those folk to be similar to provide association as we are already aware of genetic population admixture from the last glacial maximum and the great migrations north. 4. We could look at the known history of the name in Ireland and its records, as cited in Ulster at the estimated time of migration? 5. We could also look at the cultural rational at play regarding the continuity of a sacral lineage in Gaeldom within the corresponding time period? So we have 5 points. 1. Y-DNA Population Admixture. 2. Y-DNA Comparison. 3. Y-DNA Source Population. 4. Y-DNA Surname History and Migration Record. 5. Y-DNA Continuity supported by both Cultural and Religious Practice. I think any view that arises would need to be a fit to the points outlined above. The best fit to any such investigation has the support of a well reasoned argument based on consideration of available evidence. A few thoughts! Grant South

[Bob Turcott]

To all: Free DNA testing!!! Take a look and let me know!!! It looks like its free!!! Others are encouraged to look this over and let me know. To Andrew Lancaster: let me know what you think as well!!! http://www.smgf.org/index.jspx Bob T.

[Kyle2 MacLea]

It IS free, and several of us have submitted samples.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi All, Presumingly, there are descendants of Dunsliebhe Ua Eochada whose ancestors dispersed and migrated to the south of Ireland as well as Highland Scotland around the time of the Norman invasion of Ulster. This is long process I realize, but someday hopefully some old Irish families with pre-Norman heritage, will turn up with DNA signatures that closely match the Bachuil Livingstones. I agree with the Young Bachuil that the DNA evidence so far suggests that the Bachuil Livingstones are not kindred of the Ulster O'Neils and those descendant families that are genetically connected to them. regards Donald

[Bob Turcott]

Kyle, thanks for the heads up, now I will be having 2 of my male livingstone cousins tested, however based on the current paper trail, I expect a "y" Mccormick signature or it variants, in other words my cousins "y" Dna are expected to establish a new Livingstone signature!!! But it will be interesting to see what the results are, either way, it will be win win. Andrew is aware of this as well, you may be as well. Lets see what happens. As for Turcott "y" DNA and its origin,I will look into that soon. In closing, the y" DNA being tested is expected to be MCCORMICK, but if its not it will be a classical Livingstone signature of most likley highland origin or lowland, but doubt very much lowland, my theory is, the Livingstones of Mull island in short probably came from Lismore just like the possible cousin Dr livingstone frequently discussed everywhere. But we shall see, but not all the facts are available for review, but we will get there working together as a team, thru sharing and reviewing our findings.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Bob, Dr. Livingstone's grandfather lived for a time on the Isle of Ulva which is near to Isle of Mull. At this point one can not be too certain how we "other Livingstones" living near to Baron's family whether at Morvern or Mull for example, connect to Baron of Bachuil or Dr. David Livingstone. My great-great-great grandfather Miles Livingstone was born at Morvern and probably baptised at neighbouring Isle of Lismore in 1775, but this information unfortunately brings me no closer to identifying or proving any family connection to Baron of Bachuil or Dr. Livingstone. That being said, Mull, Ulva, Morvern and Isle of Lismore Livingstones all share a clan bond with the Baron's family to be sure and

[Andrew Lancaster4]

Just to emphasize what Kyle said, the smgf people can take several years to put up results, or they might not ever put them up. They are a foundation doing research and do not guarantee that they'll ever give anything back to you. Regards Andrew