For the Highland/Lowland confused

[D.W.Livingston]

I know a lot of people are confused, me included, in whether they are Lowland or Highland Livingstons. I was wondering how far back, genealogically speaking, should someone go to get past the time of possible movements. Would someone possibly need to go back to 1750's to get a definative. I guess my question is roughly what are some of the turbulent times that the Highland Livingstons might have moved down to the Lowland areas and stayed?

[Canadian Livingstone]

hi David, Events which forced Highland Livingstones to move to the Lowlands would likely have been economic in nature. Farmers which were largely marginal and subistence had a difficult enough time supporting their family add to this economic downturns in the economy they would be forced to find other means to support their families. In the 1700's after Culloden and the breakdown of the Clan system one solution to the poverty of the crofter was emigration to America, the other migration to Glasgow or elsewhere in the lowlands to find work. A classic example was Dr. David Livingstone's grandfather who brought his family from the highlands to Blantyre near Glasgow in 1792 where they found employment in a cotton mill. THere must be many other similiar stories among other Livingstones who could no survive as crofters and found work in the late 1700's and early 1800's in an industry in the lowlands. THe clearances which became more widespread in the 1800's again gave the crofters effectively little choice but to either emigrate or migrate to lowlands. After the Napoleonic Wars, Canada was more and more an attractive option for Highlanders, and Lord Selkirk for example early first in 1803 in Prince Edward Island and a few years later beginning in 1812 at RED River encouraged settlement of highlanders in his colonies. By the time the clearances were carried on a massive scale in the 1840's there was the other British Colony Australia that was the destination for a large number of Highlanders. But again there was the option for some of finding work in the lowlands. Not surprisingly then you are going to find descendants of highland Livingstones who settled there within the last 200 years or so who I suspect could have DNA markers somewhat similiar to the Maconlea-Livingstones who had resided in Western Argyll for centuries. But somewhere there must be fammily desendants of the original aristocratic Livingstones of Linlithgo and other related families. Some of this family probably fled to France in the early 1700's with their failure to stop the Hanover succession and put a Stuart back on the throne, but there must be some still in Scotland or perhaps AMerica. I would like to see their DNA results. regards Donald (Livingstone) CLink

[Bachuil]

David, I recommend this thread initiated by Kyle http://www.clanmclea.co.uk/forum/show-m ... sp?ID=1607 as this points to some fairly hard data which was summarised by Andrew as: 1. Livingston names are mainly in Argyll, and not common in the lowlands. This strongly implies to me that many Americans who believe they are lowland Livingstones are wrong. 2. MacLeas were isolated in the Gaelic north, away from Argyll where the Livingston surname had replaced it. Also this thread by Stewart McLay http://www.clanmclea.co.uk/forum/show-m ... sp?ID=1855 gives some ideas. An Account of the Name of McLea By Thos McLea, Edinburgh Scotland (http://www.macleay.cncfamily.com/account_of_mclea.htm) is also worth reading.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Niall, Interesting point. And many of the lowland Livingstons could turn out to be actually relatively recent transplants from the Highlands. Finding a descendant of the

[D.W.Livingston]

I actually found an online Family Tree for them at: http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... ston01.htm through livingston06.htm The funniest thing though is, if you believe the accuracy, on http://www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/briti ... ston05.htm it shows a current Lowland Livingston relative is still in politics. David

[Bachuil]

Yes David, I had heard this on the Bush Telegraph a while back - but I hadn't the full detail that his gives. Regards Niall

[Kyle2 MacLea]

Funny! Actually, I have a Bush in my family about 6 generations back, but I suspect they are not closely related to the Illustrious Current Occupant. K=

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi David, As I said there should be more than a few families with a old New York State connection that might be related to Robert Livingston the lord of Livingston Manor, NY and his descendants. One of the old Clink family wills from Dutchess County, NY is authorized by one of these descendants of this Robert Livingston at Poughkeepsie, DUtchess County, NY. I suspect we will run into one these Livingstons sooner or later seeking information on their New York State ancestors. ALot of them married into old New York State Dutch families of which there were quite few. New York was known as New Amsterdam up until the British pushed Dutch Governor Peter Stuyvesant out in the latter part of the 1600's. I have noticed the Bush family has old roots in Connecticut and New York State. And interestingly enough I also noticed that he and Lady Diana Spencer are distant cousins through some Spencer ancestral connection. Oddly enough several years after my ancestor Johannes Klinck came to America from the Duchy of Wuerttemberg, he married his second Phoebe Thornton whose family moved to Dutchess County, NY, but who was of an old Baptist family from Rhode Island. Phoebe's mother Hope King was to my surprise a great-grandaughter of Roger Williams the founder of the Providence Rhode Island, the Colony of the Rhode Island and established the first Baptist Church in Rhode Island. Despite his firm religious beliefs he was ultimately a restless rebel and freethinker, never happy being for long an Anglican minister, Puritan or over a baptist. Perhaps his greatest accomplishment was his notion of separation of church and State in American politics which Thomas Jefferson drew from William's writings and which has been challenged in recent years. regards, Donald (Livingstone) Clink