Livingstone Tartan Mystery Update

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi David, I checked it again with two different internet sources: Scotclans.com and tartansscotland.net and both are stating the source of Tartan 895 as Johnston 1906 and Tartan 1003 as Robert Bain. Specifically his book "The Clans and Tartans of Scotland" which I understood was first published as recently as 1938. I must confess being the Livingstone fanatic that I am I have at one time probably surfed to every single Livingstone site on the web and I think that more often than not I recall our tartan sources being described this way. But Brian is well informed and very helpfull on these things and I don't like to dispute with him. I think however this descrepancy does need further clarification as a number of organizations are putting this on their tartan sites. Anyways thought I should bring this to light and perhaps we can correct whoever has it wrong. I am going to check the recent

[Kyle2 MacLea]

Very good to have both possibilities out there, Donald.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi All, These tartan books are obviously quite popular with the many folks throughout the world of Scots origin and often go through many editions. The RObert Bain book "THe Clans and Tartans of Scotland" first published in 1938 has been reprinted many times and was first tartan book to have prints based upon actual photographs of the prints. Sir Thomas Innes (Lord Lyon )published also that year his Clan tartan book "Tartans of the Clans and Families of SCotland". I have a old copy of this one, but the tartans illustrations are hand drawn and not very accurate or appealing in appearance to my way thinking. We have a paperback copy of the Bain book, but I dont think it provides any great insight into the origins of our tartans. regards Donald (Livingstone) Clink

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle, Yes indeed. It is good idea you have to get constant updates on the MacLeas out there. Getting off my tartan obscession for a moment, I wanted to ask you a question. When doing research on your MacLeas have you found any 18th century MacLea records from MacLeas living in Argyll Parishes that closely border Bute? regards Donald (Livingstone) Clink

[Kyle2 MacLea]

I'll start a new thread... Kyle=

[D.W.Livingston]

Hello Donald, In the Sir Thomas Innes copy, does it have the Livingstone tartan and/or any information about it? I only ask because all the records say it was first documented in Robert Bain and if it was also in the Thomas Innes version then we might be able to narrow down where each "author" got there information and see if it is the same location? Just an idea. David On a side note I looked up the Thomas Innes book and the publisher is: W & AK Johnston - The same company who in 1906 made the two-volume edition of The Tartans of the Clans & Septs of Scotland. So it could be that they got their information from W & AK Johnston.

[Jill Richmond]

Hello David, Yes, "The Tartans of the Clans and Families of Scotland" by Sir Thomas Innes of Learney does have a picture of the Livingstone tartan and a history of both Highland and Lowland Livingstons. There is no info as to the origins of the tartan, which is printed in the book as having all green cross patterns. I have always supposed this to be a misprint. Sir Thomas Innes of Learney was Lord Lyon King of Arms, and so was the recognised authority on the clans and ancient families of Scotland. Just as a bit of a digression, one of my uncles possessed a Livingston tartan travelling rug.It was acquired probably in the mid 1930s. Although I did not see it as early as the nineteen-thirties, I was nevertheless very jealous of it! I have never seen another one. Regards, Jill

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi David, The Innes book has a badly illustrated artists conception of a Livingstone tartan with no mention of which tartan number it is or anything of its history but with red green and black it resembles some variation of what we today refer to as tartan wr1003 as best as I can tell. I dont have any idea what this tartan was called in earlier days before the number system was introduced. Among the variations of WR1003 the most popular I think are the Ancient Livingstone and Modern Livingstone versions of WR1003. I have a light wool scarve that is made from ancient Livingstone tartan and a tie that is modern Livingstone. If you go to the clan website you see the modern Livingstone tartan colours are a deeper hue while the ancient Livingstone I think trys to similate more suttle hues that you might have found if the tartan colours were created with ancient vegetable dyes. Or something like that. regards Donald Yes the publisher/printer is listed in the book as W and AK Johnston. According to the advertising included with my copy of the book, they published a number of books related to Scottish history and clans around this time. regards Donald (Livingstone) Clink

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi David, An earlier book published by W. and A.K. Johnston was James Grant's "THe tartans of the Clans of Scotland" published in 1886. The author died the following year in 1887. We have it in our library. I might check it out to see if there is a Livingston tartan in there. Probably not, but worth checking. There is a first edition Frank Adams book that originated around the same time as the 1906 book and it only mentions in the first edition Livingstones briefly as a minor sept of Stewarts of Appin. I looked through it some time ago, but dont remember it having any of our tartan illustrated in it. Some of the smaller tartan books even today ignore us as a clan. Perhaps this an earlier version of the 1906 publication but I am not 100% certain of that. I have not seen whether who the actual author was of the 1906 publication. It just states what I assume is the name of the publisher. regards Donald (Livingstone) Clink

[D.W.Livingston]

Hello Donald, I would be very interested in knowing if the 1886 book had any reference to the Livingstones. Kind of like Geneology it would help to narrow the time that someone displayed our Tartan. Currently the world shows that the Livingston Tartan (1003) was first documented in 1906, so I am guessing it would not be in that book but who knows. It might be possible that the "Dress Tartan(650)" is shown in 1886. Talk to you later, David