Slightly different spin on the name change.. Fictious story and database data

[Kyle2 MacLea]

It seems as if the data is winning out on the "Mac Dunsleeve" derivation rather than "Son of the Physician" but there are still some who believe the latter, certainly going back to the Account you have some thoughts on that. But I find the former more likely myself, though that doesn't stop others from having loved this explanation in the past! And of course, it could have been descendants of Dunsleeve who became physicians, and so played off *both* explanations! K=

[Craig McClay Wilson]

Donald, Here is what may have happened: 1) Per the 1743 Account, the last Baron of Lindsaig died around 1620. This line had been close to the Dukes of Argyll. The Argylls had obtained the Lindsaig estate from the Lamonts in 1536. 2)

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi David, I liked your story and liked even more the logic. Lets be bold and try out all scenarios even ones that challenge the existing assumptions. Even with my story Kyle pointed out that although we had no evidence that there ever was merger of the two clans it is intriguing to think that something did actually happen between the two clans. Perhaps not a merger as such, but some else. What that something else might have been I am still trying to figure. And although both you and I came up different wonderfully weird scenarios that must of thrown a few clan members out their chairs, I think it is good for us to sometimes "think outside of the box". We probably will never know what the actual scenario was, but what the hell lets have some fun with the clan and challenge each other and create a few interesting and perhaps outlandish scenarios. Call it brainstorming if you will. What is interesting is that we both seem to agree on one point and that is that there was contact between the Lowland Livingstons and the Highland Macleas regarding a name change. Yours in new, mine is new and of course the other one was supposedly when Sir James Livingston of Skirling arrived on the Island of Lismore in 1641 to reside in the Bishops Palace at Achnaduin. In the past I generally held on the notion that this was first contact so to speak between the Lowland Livingstons and Highland Maconleas. But if you believe the 1743 manucript the connection between these two families may have began a long time ago. That being said, WOrd to the wise ignore all references to Clan McLea with the lowland Livingstons at Battle of Pinkie CLeugh 1537. THis battle involved the Lowland family only and those involved are recorded specifically as identified as lowland family members. It is total nonsense to include the McLeas and they are never listed in the historical source material with the lowland Livingstons just on wikipedia for some odd reason. regards Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

I am working with the gaelic here. REgarding Baille Dhun Liebhe for the town of Livingston. I understood that Baille means town but Dhun or Dun I thought meant dull brown grey. Does Dun also mean town? Anyone find a gaelic translation of Living that works out to Liebhe. Can anyone help me on this one. regards Donald

[Canadian Livingstone]

Ok I may have unleashed a creative force here for good or for bad I am not really sure, but the outcome has been interesting. And while I was way out there to sugest there had been a clan merger I think it has lead to a curiosity about precisely what happened to the Lowland Livingstons of Stirlingshire Parish after their leadership was exiled and died with no apparent successors in the early 1700's. If you turn to your clan biographies in your typical Clan Tartan books the story essentially ends after the Earl of Linlithgo and the Viscount of Kilsyth were exiled to Rome in 1715 or 1716. THere is not alot of information on these two after that. Both of them lost their titles and property and neither had sons. So their lines effectively died out. End of story. Perhaps. Perhaps not. As Kyle pointed out the jurys out on whether or not the Lowland Livingston constituted a clan like the Highland Livingstons. On the other hand as Kyle also pointed out they have a family crest which is different from ours. So someone might say if it barks like a dog it is a dog. The question in my mind is what happened to the Lowland Livingstons, Lowland Clan Livingtons whatever you want to call all those lowland kin that didnt have the opportunity to join Old PRetender in exile in some splendid palace in Rome in 1716. And who established a lowland family crest and that Tartan 1003 was a lowland Livingstone tartan rather than the MacLea Livingstone tartan which many believe it is or should be? Finally what is the history of the Lowland (dare I say the word) clan in the years since 1715. We know that the Earl of Linlithgo died in 1732 or 1733 in ROme and that his daughter Ann Livingston died in 1747. But who brought the Lowland Livingstons back to life so to speak? These are some of the questions that I hope can be answered in the upcoming weeks. I hope you stay tuned. Donald (Livingstone) Clink