DNA project update

[David Wyse Livingston]

Then I truly apologize Donald as I did not see the larger scale of the differences. I assumed we all were looking to accomplish roughly the same thing but through different paths or avenues.. Genealogical, DNA, Historical, etc. I follow the beliefs that the Clan System is more in line with what Sir Iain Moncreiffe wrote, which I found on the web site: http://www.unc.edu/~ecanada/clansys.html "a sense of family, of common roots, of a place from whence we all came, strengthened by the romance of history, the skirling of pipes, the swing of the kilt,the remembrance of a dour and hard, but beautiful land, and above all, Highland pride and loyalty." I hope that others support a Reconciliation Committee and that we can get the wheels in motion to strengthen the Clan in whatever path it must go. Best Regards, David

[D.W.Livingston]

Then I truly apologize Donald as I did not see the larger scale of the differences. I assumed we all were looking to accomplish roughly the same thing but through different paths or avenues.. Genealogical, DNA, Historical, etc. I follow the beliefs that the Clan System is more in line with what Sir Iain Moncreiffe wrote, which I found on the web site: http://www.unc.edu/~ecanada/clansys.html "a sense of family, of common roots, of a place from whence we all came, strengthened by the romance of history, the skirling of pipes, the swing of the kilt,the remembrance of a dour and hard, but beautiful land, and above all, Highland pride and loyalty." I hope that others support a Reconciliation Committee and that we can get the wheels in motion to strengthen the Clan in whatever path it must go. Best Regards, David

[Andrew Lancaster4]

Dear Donald I have checked my mailbox and I have never received a mail from you. Perhaps, as you suggest, I do not check this forum enough (although guess I am one of the top 10 contributors?) but I do know that you've talked about possible DNA project participants in Canada. However, I am aware of no outstanding questions which I have not answered, and I was assuming that your contacts never came to anything. If not, then what exactly are you waiting on? ...Let's clear up this practical question before we get into other matters. My advice is that if you are waiting on an answer on a practical question, it is far better to write a direct mail asking a direct question, and not to rely on someone reading between the lines of an online forum. Otherwise, misunderstanding will be the predictable result. (Amongst my many DNA project correspondents, I think I have a reasonable reputation concerning timely answering of questions. Why not give me a fair chance to prove it to you also?) If you do have contacts who are waiting to hear how to get involved, basically, these people should be encouraged to join the project. Do you agree? We can also start a Canadian project, but I am not sure what the point of that is, as these families clearly cross borders. Tell me more about your ideas. The project does have some money by the way, which could potentially be used to contribute to the costs of testing for anybody with a well-documented link to Dr Livingstone. Just a remark: the money which has kept the DNA project moving (and it is a well-known and successful project) has come from individuals such as myself and the late Rob Livingston as well as several others. Most participants pay their own way in (or pay for a relative) but many have been sponsored in by the most active members of the project. I have no idea what philosophical disagreements you believe you have with me and others, and I wonder if you are not reading far too much between the lines. The DNA project has been run by the people who have joined it and funded it and helped it. It has no real hierarchy - just some understandings about who will do what jobs. These people are interested in various different things, including possible connections to the surname Boggs, possible connections to the families of Clermont and Callander etc. The clan is obviously a big interest to many of these people - but not all of them. And of course we want all people with surnames like Livingston to be interested. ...Many of us believe that many or most of the US Livingstons who have come to see themselves as lowland Livingstons are probably of clan ancestry. So studying their DNA relationships is quite inseparable from doing any DNA study of this clan... Most importantly, NB, there is a lot of discussion between people involved in the project, and I know of absolutely no conflict between clan and non-clan interests, and so no need for reconciliation or "fence mending"? In any case, as you are not yourself active in any correspondence on these matters, I have trouble imagining what problems you think need fixing. You seem to be implying that there is a conflict between factions, and this simply isn't true. Don, why don't you get involved? This may help reassure you. You can help in many ways. Please everybody note: The single biggest problem the project faces is in fact the opposite of the one Donald mentions. It is not that people are in conflict to get the project to do different things, it is that people are not active enough. Rather than complaining from the sidelines, let's all put our money and time where our mouths are and agree to discuss any areas of conflict *should they ever arise*. I don't foresee any. Best Regards Andrew

[Kyle2 MacLea]

Hi Donald and Andrew, On this and other matters, I have much to say.

[Jill Richmond]

I have been reading through this thread with a little sadness as the squabble it has thrown up seems so unnecessary. That said, I agree with everything that Andrew has written in his latest posting. For myself, I feel that the setting up of Committees of Reconciliation or anything else would be a retrograde step. The word Clan = Family, and I feel we should be able to settle any differences by talking courteously to one another. We are a highland clan, and in times past any disagreement was settled by the chief who had complete jurisdiction over the clan with the power of pit and gallows! I think it is only right that Niall should be appealed to for a decision about any disagreements (though not at present) that are bound to occur from time to time. Andrew, I think you are doing a splendid job with your DNA project. I am only sorry that I cannot find a living male Livingston relative who could provide a DNA sample. It is tantalising and frustrating, but there it is. I have been silent on the forum for around three weeks as we have been away and on return took to my bed with a 'flu virus. I am up and about again somewhat groggily, and with a head that feels it is stuffed with cottonwool so I hope this makes sense. Greetings to you all Jill

[Kyle2 MacLea]

It does make sense, Jill, and I think all will be well.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Andrew, As I mentioned to David, the only website I recognise is Niall Livingstone's and to be fair I have made my feelings clear regarding all these additional MacLea Livingstone websites as unneccessary duplication. If I wanted to express my own ideas about Clan MacLEa Livingstone I also could have my own webpage, but in respect to the Young Bachuil I have resisted all suggestions to do so. I know that there a number of clan members who disagree with my understanding of what is Clan McLea-Livingstone, but what I said to ROb and what I say again and again is that it is healthy to have more than one point of view on this website regarding clan origins etc. What is wrong with having different points of view? Perhaps part of the reconciliation process should be a clause protecting and preserving the miniorty view of the original clan which I share, while allowing others to maintain their more Universal vision of the Livingstone Clan.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Andrew, As I mentioned to David, the only website I recognise is Niall Livingstone's and to be fair I have made my feelings clear regarding all these additional MacLea Livingstone websites as unneccessary duplication. I know you done endless amount of work on the DNA for the Clan, but I just don't get the Website. Perhaps its just a difference in the way we approach and understand things regarding the clan. If I wanted to express my own ideas about Clan MacLEa Livingstone I also could have my own webpage, but in respect to the Young Bachuil I have resisted all suggestions to do so. I know that there a number of clan members who disagree with my understanding of what is Clan McLea-Livingstone, but what I said to ROb and what I say again and again is that it is healthy to have more than one point of view on this website regarding clan origins etc. What is wrong with having different points of view? Perhaps part of the reconciliation process should be a clause protecting and preserving the miniorty view of the original clan which I share, while allowing others to maintain their more Universal vision of the Livingstone Clan.

[Canadian Livingstone]

Hi Kyle, I was hoping to get a yes or no from you regarding our earlier discussions. Regarding the Reconciliation Commitee which David for one is backing, I am backing Hamish McLea for Chair because he is on record as having the best track record for being neutral and sitting on the fence as far as Clan members having differing points of view. I regret to say that as David, Andrew and you all see the clan quite differently that I that unless you have suddenly changed your perspectives we sit in opposing camps at the

[Canadian Livingstone]

Jill, I hear what you are saying regarding the ways or resolving clan disputes, but what you dont know is that to be fair to me I made the highest level contacts with the clan regarding Dr. David Livingstone's great nephew residing in Canada who is willing to do a DNA test. I have a copy of the original letter I sent with an acknowledgement